Dropped school : Where do I go from now?
polycounter lvl 6
It's been 5 months since I quit the College I was attending. After trying to be accepted in a school for 3 years, I was accepted and I was able to deliver, at the cost of my sanity and my health.
I've been in the College Bois-de-Boulogne (in Canada,Montreal) for 3 weeks. This school is known to be where the top students are accepted. The Animation 3D program was something which was known to be exhausting, but I thought that I could achieve it.
Every day, I was waking up at 4 AM and going to bed at 11PM. I had a part-time job too because I had to pay the bills ( you see, my family is not really wealthy, to give you an idea, I'm the one who provides the most, and I'm the son of two parents who lives on social welfare.)
My body wasn't able to follow with the charges of work and the stress. At the time, I was dealing with a break up from my first relationship (the cause was passion, and I wasn't able to draw for 4 months), so yeah, a lot of stuff were going on that made me turn sick, physically.
However, one of my teacher was really nice, when I talked to him, he said to me that I was doing very well, having 100% notes regarding my projects and what not. But at the end, after talking to some employee of the school for help, they told me that the program was made exhausting on purpose, so that people who doesn't have "will" will leave. They proposed me to do my degree in 5-6 years. I just declined and left, feeling that what I fought for was gone, that I NEEDED to have a piece of paper to prove that I was able to get a job regarding 3D modelisation.
In the begin of January, I rolled up my sleeves and come back to study 3D modelisation, on Lynda.com, and I learned so much. Blender, Maya, materials, Zbrush, unwrap, bump maps, the normals. However, I still ask myself what I can do, without that piece of paper which has so much value. What can I do? Is it that much important?
Every advices would be definitely welcome.
Ps: If you want an idea in what state I am right now, this is my first 3D model ever done, took me roughly 2 weeks (I was learning at the same time). : https://sketchfab.com/models/95dc6e5a94264b46b65fba22a14a6dbe
I've been in the College Bois-de-Boulogne (in Canada,Montreal) for 3 weeks. This school is known to be where the top students are accepted. The Animation 3D program was something which was known to be exhausting, but I thought that I could achieve it.
Every day, I was waking up at 4 AM and going to bed at 11PM. I had a part-time job too because I had to pay the bills ( you see, my family is not really wealthy, to give you an idea, I'm the one who provides the most, and I'm the son of two parents who lives on social welfare.)
My body wasn't able to follow with the charges of work and the stress. At the time, I was dealing with a break up from my first relationship (the cause was passion, and I wasn't able to draw for 4 months), so yeah, a lot of stuff were going on that made me turn sick, physically.
However, one of my teacher was really nice, when I talked to him, he said to me that I was doing very well, having 100% notes regarding my projects and what not. But at the end, after talking to some employee of the school for help, they told me that the program was made exhausting on purpose, so that people who doesn't have "will" will leave. They proposed me to do my degree in 5-6 years. I just declined and left, feeling that what I fought for was gone, that I NEEDED to have a piece of paper to prove that I was able to get a job regarding 3D modelisation.
In the begin of January, I rolled up my sleeves and come back to study 3D modelisation, on Lynda.com, and I learned so much. Blender, Maya, materials, Zbrush, unwrap, bump maps, the normals. However, I still ask myself what I can do, without that piece of paper which has so much value. What can I do? Is it that much important?
Every advices would be definitely welcome.
Ps: If you want an idea in what state I am right now, this is my first 3D model ever done, took me roughly 2 weeks (I was learning at the same time). : https://sketchfab.com/models/95dc6e5a94264b46b65fba22a14a6dbe
Replies
your situation doesn't sound fun, but its definitely not a unique case, and many people in similar situations have gone on to be wildly successful in life, so don't focus too much on the present, set goals and have a long term plan for yourself.
if you can, spend the majority of your free time making art, getting critiques and applying them to your work. That is what is going to give you the skills to get an art job opportunity. This is probably gonna mean cutting back on netflix, video games etc.
Think in terms of years, because it will most likely take you at least 2-3 years to get good enough to be industry ready. The more time you put in, the shorter the learning curve. But if you really want it, there is plenty of opportunity out there. I just takes consistency, self discipline and patience.
What do you want to be?
I knew that I forgot something in my first message...
I want to work in the video game industry, being a concept artist or to do some 3D modelling, one or another fits the bill for me.
While a college diploma isn't necessary to get a job in the industry, it is one way to make connections that can lead to a job.
There are many possible roles in the video game industry. It would be wise to pick one between concept art/animation/modeling for the time being.
You could also join as a QA/game tester. That requires no specific qualifications.
It's a social thing. Trying to talk to people in real life about how you can have a job with no certificate leads people to think you're insane. Even when I try and dispel such rumors by showing people who did get in the industry through self-practice, they still argue back "nope, you're dumb".
It's very stressful and nearly brought me to the point of tears of having to explain to people a degree isn't always necessary to get ahead in life.
I don't want to be a part the animation team, but I would be down to be a part of Concept art/Modelisation.
@JordanN
I did some research concerning people who was in the industry without a degree, and what shocked me the most was that Steve Mayles didn't have one. (He was an artist on Yooka-Laylee,Donkey Kong Country,Banjo-Kazooie and what not.)
I recommend picking a single thing and focusing on that.
And what do you think a concept artist is responsible vs "do some 3d modelling" Do you want to focus on low poly? High Poly? Character, environment etc.
It's hard to pick something, but that focus is going to help to nail down that next step. It also helps us to provide suggestions.
- The concept artist provides suggestions, ideas for something. They need to be diversified to bring something good,
- The 3D artist is the one who brings the chosen concept into a 3D model.
I tend to like characters and props more than environnements. I prefer Low-Poly models (something similar to RuneScape, the artstyle of Banjo-Kazooie Nuts & Bolts or Sea of Thieves.)
On the side, I would like to improve my learning of anatomy...
If I had to chose one...I still don't know. I like both of them equally, but I would say 3D modelisation.
( I edited 2 times because I wasn't sure of what to pick between the two haha.)
In addition if you're interested learning anatomy, as you say "on the side" but minus the mind numbing theory bit, I'd suggest checking out this workshop by Scott Eaton which is basically tailored to 3D modelling:
http://www.scott-eaton.com/anatomy-for-artists-online-course
P.S
Also tips I've found helpful avoiding burnout to a greater or lesser degree is simply looking after your health first and foremost eg: diet, exercise and "taking time out' for yourself doing stuff totally unrelated too art like a hobby or whatever captures your interest.
For your part I'd say decide what you like more and then consider the market in montreal for what is on offer.
Each specialisation requires sufficient practise to become skilled at it.
And most artists usually like one exclusively.
Steve Mayles got into the industry at a much earlier different time, when the game industry wasn't quite saturated. Not that his success can't be replicated today, but you'll have to work hard at it and having connections definitely helps getting the job.
I must ask, are you satisfied with being an artist, or do you want to design the game also (narrative/concept/level.etc) because in most larger companies those are different roles.
I've seen a lot of indie projects use low poly art over AAA studios. Montreal is one of the better development hubs with a good mix of AAA and indie studios. In fact I think there are way more indie startups by comparison.
When I was at the Montreal international game summit last year 3/4 of the hall at place Jean-Paul-Riopelle was full of indie booths.
I'd say go on the site http://www.migs17.com/en/venue-and-practical-info/ and look for names of indie companies that utilise this style and ask if you could potentially contribute or perhaps they can give you some critique on your work.
Know that most game dev students usually start out with varied aspirations of what they want out of the program, though towards the end for the sake of a job many try to tailor their portfolios towards AAA studios for better stability (usually)
So it really depends on what you want to do as you support yourself.
(*Hint - Keep in touch, some here can be open to extending opportunities should they come their way and you're good enough for the job)
I've always been of the belief that usually an artist that knows the ropes decently enough can be trained to master a skill while on the job, though because of the saturation many companies can be considerably picky.
But there is a bar to reach which you can even if you don't do a course for game development (depending on how resourceful you are)
If you're not going to game school you could consider short online courses from game art institute.etc, or pick up the essentials from gum road by studying the syllabus. They are mainly geared towards AAA realistic/stylised art specific to major companies.
A lot of what is on offer there is available for free as well. Those courses however do connect you to a industry mentor though most of them are based in the USA
Thank you so much for your advices. It's truly appreciated. I'll check for gumroad.
Regarding the courses, I've visited another school, just in case. The way they put it was that our social life would be non-existent, so non-existent that our boyfriend/girlfriend would hate us and that if we need to work while attending school, well we need to be ready to starve because we shouldn't work.
On other websites, schools who offers 3D animation as a program seems to warn people that it's an intensive one, and that sacrificeing your social life is a must (not even kidding).
The College de Bois-de-Boulogne did a new program this year regarding 3D animation, and the room I was talking wasn't necessary regarding this program, but ALL the programs that they offer.
On the side note, do you have any courses on Gumroad that you would suggest me?
Not having too much of a social life during school where you are focused on developing your portfolio and profile isn't necessarily a bad thing.
The not working while attending school I don't get. Its possible to do that here in Ontario where you get government grants during schooling and many students live with parents so not all of them have to work while in school.
If you manage your time well you can work, attend school and have a social life. Just that I know people that have forgone their social life because they were passionate about their art.
Would like to see that website that asks to sacrifice your social life.
Since you asked about anatomy sculpting
https://gumroad.com/l/cDze
Low poly hand painted weapon
https://gumroad.com/l/KYXf
If you want hard surface weapon stuff
https://gumroad.com/timb
You can get similar tutorials for free on youtube/etc using the right keywords.
Regarding the "you shouldn't work" well, the way she said it, to be more exact was " if you have to work, you'll hurt your portfolio in the end, so eat some peanut butter sandwiches and deal it with." (I have nothing against peanut butter but yeah haha).
Regarding the free time, we did an activity, calculing our free time when I was in college, and the professor was in shock that I had 11 hours (most of the time less, and I was working 4 hours at EbGames per week.) per week of free time. Every day, I was doing 4 hours (2 hours to go to the school, and 2 hours to go back to home.) So for exemple, when I was finishing at 6 PM, I was at home at 8PM. Had to sleep at 11PM (or midnight because of homeworks) and was waking up at 4AM. My freetime were on the bus and in the metro, playing some Mario+Rabbids. However, I had so many bus and trains to take that at the end, I was just waiting 15 mins between trains and what not.)
Here's the website who ask you to sacrifice your social life (lol) : http://www.cvm.qc.ca/animation/programmes/html/programmes.html (third paragraph, in french).
Here's the website of the school that I visit who ask you to eat some peanut butter (lol...) : http://www.lecampusadn.com/
When I was at MIGS (montreal international game summit) most of the students there were more generalist, all seemed to have more programming and film animation knowledge than anything specific to the AAA game industry.
Looking at the course curriculum I can see why that is now.
Whatever route you take keep working on the art. Opportunities will come, montreal has a good spread of companies so I doubt you'll face anything similar to what's happening with the Toronto game industry. (slow to shape up)
On one hand I think the traditional educational system is horribly outdated and teaching students in a fashion that would have been more relevant pre 2005 when knowing some 3ds max and photoshop could still nab you a game job. It's pretty apparent when new companies with in-industry instructors like CGMA are creating more modual based, focused classes. So instead of spending $10-20k on a general art education and learning skills where 2/3rds of them you will never use again, you can pick and choose a couple of $1-2K classes and get a more focused, job ready portfolio in half the time for a fraction of the price.
The only upside to having a broad range of learning topics like environment, characters and animation, is its good for the people who don't know what the like to do yet, and gives them an opportunity to "taste" everything and perhaps find their passion. But don't expect to be job ready after 2 years of class work and not getting focused and doubling down in your own time. thats where the real gold comes from. graduating with a degree and straight A's doesn't mean jack shit if your portfolio is lackluster.
Also since many current professionals are alumni of certain universities there may be a fair bit of bias in their selection process.
Again this is more for junior level hires.
During my research on linkedin, many current professionals in Montreal all graduated from a university called centre NAD.
But in the grand scheme of things yes you can work things out and become a better artist without doing a game development program.
With my family situation and what not, I can't deal with a debt of 20k for some help, and I can't afford for that kind of education.
There are a ton of insanely talented artists on artstation, polycount and working in AAA studios around the world who are self taught with no formal education. They just have really, really good portfolios.
Art leads and the people responsible for doing the hiring only care about one thing: can you deliver the results they want. I think I have been asked maybe 1 or 2x where I went to school during a game studio interview and when I told them I was self taught, both times the response was "oh wow, you must have been really motivated, that's impressive." It has never hurt me, and if anything it has helped me.
just focus on spending the next couple years making the best art you can. How you learn the skills does not matter at all. youtube is a great teacher for those on a budget, or gumroad tutorials, or high end online classes like CGMA. No one cares how you get there, they only care about the results you can deliver. This is 2018 not 2001, old fashioned gatekeepers are becoming more and more irrelevant. Do what works for you and just take action.
Now that you are free from college, you have all the time to take care of yourself properly, which means you're time for learning should be 100% focused. As long as you aren't a lazy ass, you should learn much faster than you would in college.
The gatekeepers who think putting people through a physical trial to "prove" they are tough enough to make 3d art -- what bullshit! We invented computers so we don't have to do dumb stuff like this. Should only maniacs learn the skills necessary to express themselves via 3d art?
Don't let it get you down. Once you get more and more skill in 3d, you are going to find yourself working harder than you did at school, and yet you'll feel great because a growing sense of mastery will be fueling you, not some wanna-be slave drivers metaphorical whip.
But self learning can often be an exercise in frustration. If you are the type to easily give up and get discouraged, you will have to start developing ways to deal with that. Sometimes I find myself spending an entire 8 hour day just figuring out how to do the simplest of things, and that can really sap my motivation and fill me with self doubt. But, you know, just take a break until your motivation comes back, and usually then I find the solution I needed wasn't so obscure after all.
Fuck all that fucking Shit.
And by the way,
you WERE able to draw. But you didnt.
Stop excusing yourself. I wont enable you here.
What is "Lynda dot com?" Forget about All this fucking shit.
Listen to me. Go to the WIP section of this Forum, and look at the Great Shit people post. That's the bar.
Or go to Art Station. Same thing.
You need to get so Good, that you can post work anywhere, and get Likes, and get Positive Feedback. You need to do Real Work. And only once you do that, will you start to get a Ton of cash.
Good luck.
I probably missed describe the situation I was in regarding my relationship. Yes I didn't draw, yes I was enable to. But by dealing with some emotional stuff, and dealing with the kind of shit from my first post, my mind wasn't there. That you like it or not, I don't care, that's my reason, even if it's a shitty reason for you. Maybe your "fuck this and that" is your way to express yourself and it's totally fine, but I find that a bit...Unnecessary. (That's all I would say regarding that matter, I don't want this post to turn into a mess because of differents opinion and who's right/wrong.)
On the next side of thing, I set the bar on how good I wanted to be, and it's on a similar bar as @RocketBryan regarding his project : http://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2615044#Comment_2615044
EDIT : Lynda.com is a website where your can take courses, similar to youtube tutorials, on diverses topics (not necessarly 3D modelling).
@BIGTIMEMASTER
I feel you right there, I had a couple of days since January when I tried to figure out some stuff for 5 hours. I took a break of 15 mins (eating/playing a quick game on my Switch/watching a youtube video/etc..) and immediately jumped back to my computer with so many ideas on how to do x,y,z or solve a problem.
I bought 2 books of anatomy and working hard on how to draw bodies with a muscles and giving volumes to my character, which made me feel very proud !