Study Advice for an aspiring Game Character Artist

Gabilua

Hello.
I'm trying to build a portfolio and skillset to work with character design in games, and I've been watching talks and reading articles about which kinds of skills and knowledge I should have.
I already have some basic handpainted skills, but I still do it in quite the crude manner. I actually open the OBJ in Photoshop and open its diffuse map on a separate window to paint directly on it, following the changes in-model on the other window. (used to do it for CSGO skins)
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/VvB65
This is my first character, or textured object whatsoever, and was entirely made like this, but as you can imagine, this workflow is a mess and photoshop can really make your life hell when working on both a huge image and a 3d model open, specially when it updates.
I learned about Substance Designer/Painter, 3D Coat and Quixel, and as I'm trying to organize my studies for this year I don't know what exactly matches my needs.
Which software/pipeline could help me do this kind of stylized art, and stil be able to take advantage of smart materials and better painting/texturing workflow?
I'm willing to do anything from simple diffuse-only to something more advanced, blending PBR and substances with handpainted.
(examples: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/n4E5e / https://www.artstation.com/artwork/8qeyQ)
Thanks in advance.

Brian "Panda" Choi

Substance Painter.

Gabilua

Brian "Panda" Choi said:

Substance Painter.

So, I can achieve Overwatch level of handpainted stylized substance results just by using this one software?

slosh

I would say if you're doing more handpainted style, 3dcoat might fit your workflow better.  Substance Painter is becoming industry standard for more realistic games but I've heard 3dcoat is really nice for handpainted while still having PBR materials as well.  That being said, I believe the Overwatch team will be using Substance Painter combined with Photoshop.

Gabilua

slosh said:

I would say if you're doing more handpainted style, 3dcoat might fit your workflow better.  Substance Painter is becoming industry standard for more realistic games but I've heard 3dcoat is really nice for handpainted while still having PBR materials as well.  That being said, I believe the Overwatch team will be using Substance Painter combined with Photoshop.

How would it work?
What I've heard of Substance Painter is that it doesnt create materials, nor does it allow for robust painting, and of 3D Coat is that it is exactly that: a robust painting platform that also handles basic substance making.
If I wanted to create stylized substances and then use them when texturing, along with traditional handpainting, what should I learn?
Does 3D Coat take care of the whole process?

Alemja

For your first character that is pretty good! Working with the photoshop 3d painting is not something I've seen a lot of people do due to how clunky it is.

Regarding your question and examples, it really depends on what you want to do. 3D coat is better for purely diffuse painting, while Substance Painter likes to procedurally generate things and use PBR. Both of the examples you provided seem like they would be more easily done in substance painter because they have normal maps, specular and gloss.

Both software packages are good, but in my personal opinion Substance Painter wins out because contrary to popular opinion, it is not only used for realistic work. One of the clients I can talk about from work is creating Dauntless, and despite it's stylized look and feel the textures are being created 100% in Substance Painter. Substance painter is quickly becoming the industry standard and it's probably a good idea to learn it anyway. I've never seen it be used for diffuse only painting, but I imagine it is possible.

If you aren't interested in working that way and you're set on doing 100% diffuse painted like LoL or WoW, then it's best to pick up 3D coat. 3D coat does have some PBR functionality, but I've never used it and mostly see it being used for doing hand painted textures.

BagelHero

Both of the examples you linked are stated to have been fully made in substance painter, so... I feel like that says something.
As an aside, I also think the tool here matters a little less than your general knowledge.

Gabilua

Alemja said:

For your first character that is pretty good! Working with the photoshop 3d painting is not something I've seen a lot of people do due to how clunky it is.

Regarding your question and examples, it really depends on what you want to do. 3D coat is better for purely diffuse painting, while Substance Painter likes to procedurally generate things and use PBR. Both of the examples you provided seem like they would be more easily done in substance painter because they have normal maps, specular and gloss.

Both software packages are good, but in my personal opinion Substance Painter wins out because contrary to popular opinion, it is not only used for realistic work. One of the clients I can talk about from work is creating Dauntless, and despite it's stylized look and feel the textures are being created 100% in Substance Painter. Substance painter is quickly becoming the industry standard and it's probably a good idea to learn it anyway. I've never seen it be used for diffuse only painting, but I imagine it is possible.

If you aren't interested in working that way and you're set on doing 100% diffuse painted like LoL or WoW, then it's best to pick up 3D coat. 3D coat does have some PBR functionality, but I've never used it and mostly see it being used for doing hand painted textures.

I don't really understand the workflow of blending handpainted with PBR so I can't really choose a tool for each part. I'd imagine that I could swap my current PS work with 3D Coat, since they're so similar and handle basic diffuse without problems, and then use Substance Painter to achieve the more sophisticated stages, handling maps and materials?
I'll research Painter better and try to get a better grasp at this specific workflow.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply!

Gabilua

BagelHero said:

Both of the examples you linked are stated to have been fully made in substance painter, so... I feel like that says something.
As an aside, I also think the tool here matters a little less than your general knowledge.

Yeah, it really contradicts what most "beginner's guides" say about the tool. 
Guess I'll need to look deeper into it.
Ty.

PixelMasher

if stylized is the goal...here is a tutorial from an ex blizzard dev. pretty close to overwatch style

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrdGjGHQs5k

https://cubebrush.co/mb/products/1ztdpw/pbr-character-for-games

or this
https://cubebrush.co/mb/products/1jur3a/ultimate-career-guide-3d-artist

my biggest advice would be to set a goal of the exact role you want to be doing and reverse engineer what it takes to get there. then focus 100% of your energy around tackling that.

Gabilua

PixelMasher said:

if stylized is the goal...here is a tutorial from an ex blizzard dev. pretty close to overwatch style

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrdGjGHQs5k

https://cubebrush.co/mb/products/1ztdpw/pbr-character-for-games

or this
https://cubebrush.co/mb/products/1jur3a/ultimate-career-guide-3d-artist

my biggest advice would be to set a goal of the exact role you want to be doing and reverse engineer what it takes to get there. then focus 100% of your energy around tackling that.

That's a really expensive set of examples xD
I'll try to do just that! Ty,

PixelMasher

I find a lot of beginners have that mindset. You need to realize that most professionals time is probably valued at anywhere from 40-100 dollars an hour, usually more for 1 on 1 instruction. Not only that, but its literally a step by step how to, from somone who has worked on the exact project and workflow you said you are trying to match. 

I would say that is a hell of a deal to learn from a pro for 10+ hours and shortcut your learning curve dramatically. 

You should ask yourself what you value your time at, putting an actual dollar value on it is a good exercise. If that course could save you a couple hundred hours of digging through youtube and google, and trying to get aaa results all on your own, that makes it even more valuable. 

Dont get me wrong, it makes no difference to me, but that was a mindset i used to have 10 years ago or so when i was trying to learn and get in the industry. And it was a bjg mistake that held me back. Never underestimate the value of practical knowledge from experienced mentors. 

The other option is what....$10-20k on art school? If you are looking to actually get into doing art professionally, you are going to have to invest in some learning resources at some point. Like i said, i hate to see people making the same mistakes i did back in the day. Perspective is super important