Completely lost
polycounter lvl 5
Hey guys,
So after graduating from university, I didn't really have any skills. So from Sep 2013 to 2016, I was taking online workshops at iAnimate off and on to improve my animation skills.
Started applying for jobs at the end of 2016 and got nothing. Didn't let this get me down. This year, I took an extra workshop to learn about motion capture to expand my skill set as well as creating a few shots for my reel. For a few months, I was going on 4 hours of sleep a night because of me working on stuff at night.
Now I can't find a game animation job. Entry level jobs are virtually non-existent. Seriously, there is barely anything out there. My plan was to get a job in games and then go off to Animation Mentor to further improve myself. AM costs about 15k for the entire thing. I have 7.5k saved so far. I still live at home with my parents so I can afford to set money aside every month. But I can't, for the life of me, get a game job.
From Sep to Nov this year, I was applying with my new shots and mocap stuff and didn't get anything except for a failed art test. So I stopped applying and came up with 2 projects to add to my reel because what else can you do apart from work on your folio, right? Even though creatinf stuff takes time and it can eat up the year pretty quick.
I'm being rejected by jobs where you don't need any work experience! I'm looking on Linkedin to find people who currently have this job and I see that they came straight out of school and landed this role. Meanwhile, I have a little more experience and skills but I can't even get an interview.
One job in particular called for no work experience and I ticked every requirement/skills they listed. This is rare but I actually ticked everything they wanted and more. I still got rejected and I don't know why, I even had an automated video interview and managed to answer their questions. So now I'm unsure what to do. Being in the UK, it's heartbreaking to have to sift through all the overseas jobs in Canada/US that I think I have a shot at to find jobs in the UK where it's not as abundant.
I'm not entitled or anything, I know no one owes me anything and there will always be people better than you and it's all down to luck sometimes.
Do I just keep working on my reel and apply to whatever job pops up no matter how rare these jobs are? Do I say screw it and just attend Animation now? Is there a good chance it may never happen and I'm just one of those people? I always thought if I kept at it, something would give but it's not. I sacrificed every aspect of my life for this and I'm not seeing any results.
I know life never plays out like you plan it but I'm not sure what to do.
Thanks.
So after graduating from university, I didn't really have any skills. So from Sep 2013 to 2016, I was taking online workshops at iAnimate off and on to improve my animation skills.
Started applying for jobs at the end of 2016 and got nothing. Didn't let this get me down. This year, I took an extra workshop to learn about motion capture to expand my skill set as well as creating a few shots for my reel. For a few months, I was going on 4 hours of sleep a night because of me working on stuff at night.
Now I can't find a game animation job. Entry level jobs are virtually non-existent. Seriously, there is barely anything out there. My plan was to get a job in games and then go off to Animation Mentor to further improve myself. AM costs about 15k for the entire thing. I have 7.5k saved so far. I still live at home with my parents so I can afford to set money aside every month. But I can't, for the life of me, get a game job.
From Sep to Nov this year, I was applying with my new shots and mocap stuff and didn't get anything except for a failed art test. So I stopped applying and came up with 2 projects to add to my reel because what else can you do apart from work on your folio, right? Even though creatinf stuff takes time and it can eat up the year pretty quick.
I'm being rejected by jobs where you don't need any work experience! I'm looking on Linkedin to find people who currently have this job and I see that they came straight out of school and landed this role. Meanwhile, I have a little more experience and skills but I can't even get an interview.
One job in particular called for no work experience and I ticked every requirement/skills they listed. This is rare but I actually ticked everything they wanted and more. I still got rejected and I don't know why, I even had an automated video interview and managed to answer their questions. So now I'm unsure what to do. Being in the UK, it's heartbreaking to have to sift through all the overseas jobs in Canada/US that I think I have a shot at to find jobs in the UK where it's not as abundant.
I'm not entitled or anything, I know no one owes me anything and there will always be people better than you and it's all down to luck sometimes.
Do I just keep working on my reel and apply to whatever job pops up no matter how rare these jobs are? Do I say screw it and just attend Animation now? Is there a good chance it may never happen and I'm just one of those people? I always thought if I kept at it, something would give but it's not. I sacrificed every aspect of my life for this and I'm not seeing any results.
I know life never plays out like you plan it but I'm not sure what to do.
Thanks.
Replies
As a Canadian, I say it's the opposite. From the top of my head, I know Rockstar, Rare, Cinesite, ILM, Square Enix Europe, Ubisoft Reflection etc are British or have subsidiaries in the United Kingdom. I even regularly posted a thread about a new animation studio that opened up in Ireland.
It's tough applying for jobs and not getting any responses but you must understand, it's not a game industry thing. The whole economy after 2008 took a huge beating, and this meant nearly every company got even more conservative with who they hire. The best thing you can do is work harder so you can rise above the competition and prove you're the ideal candidate.
Aside from that, have you looked into possibly working in film or television for animation? Probably for some production experience or something. That was one of the things I remember wanting to do, and I'm sure it'd be cool to do. I would assume that it would be transferable to games, or on the cinematic side.
Also about checking all the boxes, companies are not really sitting around waiting for someone that checks all the boxes to come around and then hire that guy right away, they will always be looking for more then they ask for, so might just have found someone that checks a lot more boxes or they just stumbled upon someone very experienced that they couldn't live without that made that entry level position obsolete.
QA may not feature high on most peoples list when seeking entry level roles but hey at the end of the day if successful at least a foot in the door.
I'm going to animate an action shot complete with acting and camera cuts to add to my reel to give it that 'wow' factor. Also, going to add some mocap cycles and blending different clips together.
Will give it another shot after adding the new shots to my reel but if 2018 is going to be the same as 2017, I honestly don't want to think about what I'm going to do.
Got to stay on the grind.
Here's to 2018, have a great year, everyone.
that is another essential part of the equation. The chances of you having someone recommend you for a position (this is like a golden ticket) go way up the more value you provide to others. I would look on meetup.com and start sttending some local events. Join online animation clubs/forums and post consistently with feeback and new work. Ideally: every single day.
Finally, think of yourself as a media company first, you need to be putting out content across social, instagram, art station etc. The more eyeballs and attention you can get on your work, the higher the chance of something serendipitious happening. Imagine being the guy who puts out a 5 second animation clip per day on insta, or even weekly. Chances are that would gain some attention, and its a good way to hack culture. It doesnt matter if you hate social media, the market doesnt care. Its 2018. Market yourself appropriately and you will win. The good news is most creatives are not doing that, and eventually will have to scramble to keep up.
If you have a decent portfolio and it is still not clicking, it probably means another aspect of the equation is not getting enough attention. I know depression can be a really huge burden, but try to get out there socially and make some likeminded friends, its going to help not only wth the depression but also by surrounding yourself with some other badass animators either online or in person, you will advance way faster.
FINAL SECRET SAUCE: look at the studios around you, and make some “fan art” animations that can help them see your work in context. Example: make a badass batman fight scene to get rocksteadys attention, some cool gears of war cover/shooting animations for splash damage etc. Get targeted and laser focused on winning where you live.
Finally...(i keep giving this advice and few have implemented it) once you have those “assets” and they are aaa quality, reach out on linkedin or instagram/twitter DM to animators and art directors at those studios and ask for advice/critique. 1 in 10 might respond, dont take it personally, but now you have their attention. Ideally find some way to bring that person value in return. This could be as simple as sending them a bottle of wiskey as a thank you for taking the time to look at your work and provide you feedback. You think that might make an impression on them and have you at the forefront of their mind when that studio is looking to hire? It might not be right away, but 6 months down the road when they are looking for a new animator for a new project...you might get a call. Invest in building relationships.
Lets say you get 10 responses, you send 10 bottles out at 30-40 bucks a pop. Thats 300-400 bucks you are investing. Seems like a lot right? I garuentee that is going to be more effective than spending 15k on a course. It doesnt have to be booze, find something they would appreciate (hint: people broadcast this info all the time on twitter
If you are good and working on your folio consistently, deploy this strategy and you should get some interesting results. The only caveat is you have to do it without expecting anything in return, its not you bribing them for a job, its you being genuienly greatful for their feedback and showing you are aware of the value of their time. The second you do this expecting to be first in line for a job, you break it. The second you copy/paste/spam the same message to every one on linkedin/insta/twitter you break it. Get personal and invest the time. 99% of your competition isnt even thinking of this.
Whew, my thumbs are tired haha. There is both high level theoritcal advise in this post and some on the ground tactics you can play around with. Think outside the box and you will win in 2018, look at all the people cheering for you already in this thread! Happy new year!
Thanks for the advice. I definitely need to ratchet up the networking aspect. I have reached out to a few senior animators on twitter and had a few actually review my reel and give me feedback. One from Ubisoft Reflections and one from Ninja Theory were kind enough to look at my stuff. But I need to do more, post on twitter more regularly. I'm always posting in the anim section here trying to give feedback to others as well.
Need to create a ton more stuff in 2018. Here is my plan for 2018, please let me know what you think:
1) Create the action shot to add some filmic stuff to my reel with character acting which I think my current reel lacks.
2) Animate a western cowboy duel type anim to get Rockstar's attention. (since they're working on RDR 2)
3) Animate a cool Batman shot of him gliding through the night sky about to take out some baddies to get Rocksteady's attention. (I'm a big fan of both Rockstar and Rocksteady's work)
4) Add some typical game cycles like walk, jog, idle, using mocap since that is pretty popular in games to cover that end for my reel.
5) Create a shot of different mocap clips blending together. E.g. a punch into a kick, into a combo, etc.
While doing all this, document the process here on Polycount as well as twitter and reach out to folks more often. Hopefully, by summer 2018, I'm in a much better spot.
What do you think?
Cheers.
So I think you're on the right track.
I'm not an animator myself but your reel looked pretty good to me for an entry level position. Perhaps you could add some lip syncing although at this point I'd say up your job search. You mentioned you applied and then had a break - I think it's important to just keep applying as you never know that next job you apply to could be the one you get. It's a bit of a numbers game sometimes - you just have to apply to everything.
You mentioned not feeling like there are lots of UK jobs for games animation. Firstly, I think there are quite a few as I'm always seeing companies hiring for animation all the time (I'm UK based) - some websites I use for job hunting are Indeed, Artstation jobs, Polycount jobs, Linkedin jobs, and Unity Connect always has animation work. Then you can go through the game dev map and send a speculative email to all companies.
My sister is actually an animator (MOCAP) at Foundry 42, Cloud Imperium - so she might know some other job boards you should be tapping. If you are interested I can get you in touch with her for more specific advice. I remember when she was applying, she just kept applying every week to many jobs and eventually she'd get something. Although I will also mention, she first worked animating for adverts, facebook games and casino games. She would also apply for film animation work. I'm not sure if you already have industry experience for animation - but it really helps to get some kind of animation work on your CV first even if it's not in games. From that point of view I advise you to apply to any animation role at this point if you don't already have this experience. Even some freelance work would help your CV look stronger.
Good luck!
Claire
Yeah, that would be great. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places. Funnily enough, I did apply to Cloud Imperium a while ago but didn't hear back. Maybe it's my CV/covering letter that is giving a bad impression. Who knows....
Right now, I'm a junior animator for an electronics store. I work in C4D just animating camera/props but it is something for my CV, I guess. Shows I can work in a team and communicate with others. Been there a year now.
I think my job hunting skills are not great. Most people have said my reel is good enough for a junior type role so maybe it's all about timing or something is giving off a bad impression.
Thank you for the help, I appreciate it.
Cheers.
I’m ToffeeApple’s sis =}. I’ve had a look at your showreel but first in response to this post I’ve found getting a job as an animator quite difficult but there are a couple of different ways to get your foot in the door so to speak. The first is by being a facial animator at either Cubic Motion in Manchester or Foundry 42 in derby where I’m currently working. You can try and get a job in TT Games or other companies similar to them but as you have probably discovered they require 2 years of experience in. The path that I took was that of a freelancer so whilst the majority of my friends worked for Cubic and some still do I moved around between companies such as Flipbook in Manchester and Finger Industries in Nottingham which I was at very briefly. Drop these two an email if you fancy for I know for definite Flipbook is requiring an animator. I gathered a bit over a year of exoerience doing this and for me it was hard but others like my freelancing colleagues were happy to do it but also landed a job at cloud imperium. Foundry 42, aka Cloud Imperium is also a good one to apply to for we’re always recruiting in many different fields and you learn a great deal.
Okay the next thing I want to comment on are your plans for your showreel. Definitely create a lip sync for no matter which company you apply to it is always good to show that you can do facial animation and create a character with emotion and feeling. A lot of studios I’ve found like you to create something more individual and creative, you just need one really good shot that makes your showreel unique for you to be noticed after all =}. The main thing I always keep in mind when I animate is that I want a character that my audience believes is real and has a personality to them even if this is displayed by something as simple as a cheeky grin or a nod of the head. They have to connect to my audience and feel like that character does but this is coming from someone whose concentration in animation is that of believability. Haha sorry it is hard to explain but i hope you get what i mean.
Now for your list that you mentioned.
1) (Create the action shot to add some filmic stuff to my reel with character acting which I think my current reel lacks.) I wouldn’t do another action shot for it’d better to do an acting one where you film yourself or someone else for reference and then use that to make a character more like a person.
2) (Animate a western cowboy duel type anim to get Rockstar's attention. (since they're working on RDR 2)) From my point of view it isn’t a good idea to do the same as what a company is doing as it isn’t very creative and they will have been animating a lot of cowboys so they can spot any problems with your animation straight away. Again they like you to be able to show that you are a creative person and can come up with things yourself.
3) (Animate a cool Batman shot of him gliding through the night sky about to take out some baddies to get Rocksteady's attention. (I'm a big fan of both Rockstar and Rocksteady's work)) Please don’t animate batman. Just put in YouTube batman or Spider-Man and there are thousands. If you want to do something like that do something different or a very unknown superhero, someone less likely to have been done.
4) (Add some typical game cycles like walk, jog, idle, using mocap since that is pretty popular in games to cover that end for my reel.) Please don’t do this either, it’s pretty dull in a showreel and again everyone has seen them before plus a lot of tests end up being similar to these. If you want to do a game cycle prob pick something challenging even if it is a cycle of attacks but again it isn’t very interesting to see.
5) (Create a shot of different mocap clips blending together. E.g. a punch into a kick, into a combo, etc.) Sorry I am probably repeating myself but do something unique, a colleague of mine did a dragon flying for example which then swooped down and grabbed a dear. He also did some motion capture stuff for his reel but each shot was his own and not a generic kick or punch.
Last bit is about your reel =}. You tend to mainly use the girl rig throughout the reel. It’s always a good idea to show a range of characters for it shows that you can animate with any rig then.
A really good first shot but it feels a bit floaty for me and the character is moving too much, it’d be good to have a pause every now and then to give the impression that she is thinking about what she is doing and not just doing it. The movement seems a bit off and unrealistic at points for she seems to strike forward but then go backwards and up, i guess think about how an actual person would go through this as well as watch for any sliding feet as this can cause a loss in the weight of the character. It could be to do with your camera or something but it feels wrong to me. Again when she lands she is suddenly facing forwards when she went down she was facing left which causes the shot to not flow together. I also feel like there is too much swaying of her head and general movement again. When she lifts her head and body up that touch her leg moves a bit too much in, I’d reduce this down a bit to get the sensation of weight back. Keep in mind that that sword is heavy as well for when she lands it is incredibly floppy looking and doesn’t look very threatening. You could add a slight bit of facial to this bit, even if it is a slight menacing smile or something, she doesn’t seem to care about what she has done whereas I’d prob be acting a bit cocky and evil =}.
The next shot, there seems to be quite a few problems with the arms being too straight with is causing popping in the elbows on the woman. The man doesn’t react to being kicked in the shin, he very much seems to be playing rag doll. When he goes down he shouldn’t just be knelt for his body would pull him forward so there needs to be a lean forward and then him to push himself back up as if ready to turn and tackle her but she grabs his head instead. It’d be a good idea to try and act this out I’d say and then you can get those little details of where the arms would fall and how he’d try to fight back through that. The woman’s body is too straight for my liking as well and i feel like there needs to be more guidance in her steps as she seemed to move without even telling herself to. This can be something as simple as leaning on the opposite leg before the right leg moves to the side. She doesn’t react to the sudden weight of the man falling on her as well for it’d be a little bit of a shock to have such a big fellow fall into your arms which you then need to somehow lift down gently without allerting anyone. It looks like it’d be a bit of a struggle but she does it easily.
Dog wise, weight I’d say isn’t quite there and I feel like his hips need rotating that touch. Animals are hard though and I still haven’t got them.
The arms in the third shot feel awkward for me as if he himself doesn’t really know where they should. They should feel natural and a part of the body but they grab my attention immediately when they shouldn’t. Reference would be a good idea i think of a muscular man running for at the moment they seem rather floaty and like a skinny man running with arm bands on or something. I think it may be being caused by them constantly being bent. There seems to be a bit of elbow jitter at times so prob look at your curves and smooth this out. When he slows down to look he doesn’t do so gradually so he just swaps between two speeds, there needs to be more of a build up to his run and more of a reason why he needs to suddenly speed up even if it is something he himself as seen. He could do the cartoony look to the right look back, dip down look right, throw himself up and really run so to speak to get the whole ‘yikes I’m gonna get hit’ act. Then also exaggerate the run when he’s scared cause he wants to get out of there. It’d be nice if we could see the action more when he is hit as he goes off of camera, the camera might be moving a bit much. Prob add a slight reaction to him when he sees the helicopter as he doesn’t seem bothered about it.
The last few shots aren’t interesting to look at for me. The final video in your reel should be your second best piece to leave your audience with a good impression.
Overall, this is a touch harsh to say, it is a typical games showreel. Make a few unique shots and definitely include a lip sync and some facial animation as there didn’t seem to be any. You need to add more personality to your characters more than anything which will make them seem like typical game characters, even if it is a cheeky smile or a scared expression. I think you need to just constantly keep in mind how you would be reacting in that situation or how that particular person would like with the woman catching the muscular man. It’s a really good showreel though, better than many of my shots so I would keep going at improving it. Please also keep in mind that everything in my lovely long ‘essay’, as my partner has called it, is just my own opinion and sorry if any of it seems a little harsh for its how i always like to have feedback on what I do for its the best way to learn and improve and is better to be told out right what someone feels is wrong.
Good luck with your showreel and if you ever want me to have a look at it please drop me or my sister a message and I am happy to do so.
Thanks,
Sarah
p.s. Sorry for any typos =}
Cheers.
I am in pretty much the exact same situation, living at home still and all the exciting stuff. Will power seems to be key, I can tell right away you are much further along skill wise than I am, if someone such as yourself struggles to land that first job then some of us have a long way to go.
I freelance full time after retail work crippled my soul, a huge step without studio experience but been at home does have its advantages. Save, Save, Save!
It is at this stage where we have the luxury of time, time you can use to keep hammering away at your reel. If one year it lands you nothing then that means you spend the following year improving, updating and creating. If you're showing steady progress a studio is bound to see that one piece that makes them see your potential.
Everyone knows its not as simple as "Make a better reel" I am a firm believer your skills can only go so far without having a studio environment full of professionals to guide your animation fingers but you are clearly at a level where you know your stuff. You just need to keep pushing forward and show the companies with the right investment into your development you will become an asset to their projects!
Good luck and I cannot wait to see your 2018 reel start to take shape.
Looking at your shot list, add a creature shot - Games studios do love that, it shows you can handle complex mechanics and if you do it well, it could lead to a film job. Film just need to see 1 single good creature shot - i see it nearly weekly of people getting hired because of a singular animation they made.
I feel Film also are willing to take chances as its contract.
Thanks for the kind words man. Yeah, it can be pretty demoralising to feel like you're in a rut and there are aspects that you cannot control.
I'm reworking my demo reel and creating a few shots to add to it. Given myself until the end of May to be ready to apply again. There is a saying that I heard, "Even a blind chicken gets fed once in a while". Meaning, if you just keep pecking at the ground, you will eventually get something. I believe that if I just keep hammering away, something will give eventually, something has to.
So many industry professionals have been very kind to me and given me advice, even looked at my stuff. If I ever 'make it', I definitely intend to pay it forward and give other people who are in a similar position advice on what they can do to work in the games industry.
I want this more than anything and I know I still have plenty of room to grow. Just keep at it dude, if there is any justice in the world, you will be rewarded for your efforts.
I dream about the day I get my first job offer, life will be so sweet at that point, I imagine what it would feel like. It's what keeps me going. Either I will make it or I will die trying.
See you around.
Games are where my passion lies but I'm willing to work in films. I guess I've been hesitant to apply for film stuff because I haven't done lip sync before, I've been laser focused on body acting/mechanics for games.
Interesting point about a creature shot, I will have to give that some thought. I feel like my reel lacks some more 'gamey' type stuff so I'm going to do a takedown, dodge and death as well.
Thanks for the advice, I've seen your work around and it's pretty amazing dude.
Strong body mechanics should appeal to games or film - so no reason why it cant be used for both. Style of animation may differ but that's the choice you make of whom its aimed at.
Just make cool stuff
Guys, it's possible to start from scratch and get the skills needed to break into the industry. It just takes a long time and a ton of effort. I literally started with hardly any knowledge about animation, take a look at my old 11secondclub profile history to see:
http://www.11secondclub.com/forum/search.php?search_id=1678656004
Hopefully, this helps others who may be in a similar situation and don't be afraid to reach out. Got to pay it forward since so many people helped me along the way.
Nice one! congrats