Hello Everyone, I'd like to know what is the better alternative for substance painter, as substance painter is too heavy on my computer hardware , is it MARI or Mudbox to use?
Mudbox used to be relatively light and fast to use, don't know whether it's the same now and how viable it is for PBR texturing.
3dcoat has PBR painting features and an ability to create 'smart' material presets. I didn't seem as versatile as Substance Painter when I used it, but it wasn't too bad.
Mudbox used to be relatively light and fast to use, don't know whether it's the same now and how viable it is for PBR texturing.
I texture using Mudbox.
It really isn't all that bad. Although it doesn't give you real time feedback and lacks certain brush settings, it's still basically photoshop in 3D. I actually find this type of workflow more interesting because it leads me to try more creative solutions to supplement.
I use to have a gtx 860 with i5 computer that ran Mudbox pretty well, It
was the only solution I had for painting hi-res multi-tile textures, Because I couldn't run Mari properly, lots of display issues. Technically you can achieve PBR textures within Mudbox. Roughness maps is literally just a inverted Gloss map. Metalness, if you have separated your materials efficiently into separate layers, it would be easy to turn it into metalness map with adjustment. Sure its a little bit more work than SP, but its a solution.
those three are very different tools for different tasks... if you need a procedural painting solution there is only substance...
The entire alien Covenant spaceship had barely any hand painted things on it. I setuped the mari archive allowing texturing it without any brush strokes. The only ones we did was to apply all the stickers and some specific dirt / stains on certain modules at the end of production. Most of the movie it's bare mari procedurals doing all the work. Half a day to process a module. On a spaceship that is 1.5Km long it's nothing to frown at especially considering some modules had 600+ textures per channel. Most of the castle in King Arthur is also done without much hand painting, only the leakings and some ground transitions were hand painted. Maybe some brick / stone masks but procedurally enhanced so they were VERY loose to paint as the procedurals would refine the masking on it's own IE fast as hell to paint. Jack of all trade: Mari. it's painting tools are untouchable. can handle a ton of UVs and channels. Advantage is if you don't have a lot of UDIMs it's the fastest of them all on old hardware... But might be overblown for game assets. In movies there isn't any other choice for hero assets (altho we started using painter on simple props). Cons no multiple channel painting but TBH i rarely see the advantages... But that's just me and I am not in games any more. Other con is if you want to lookdev in it then you need a hell of a video card and its shaders are kinda sucky. Game specific: Substance painter for PBR. Multi channel painting and lookdev at the same time which can be awesome if you don't have dedicated lookdev people. 3DCoat is king in hand painted. Mudbox... Why would anyone waste its time learning mudbox for painting is beyond me. For sculpting it's still very awesome, especially for organic models, but if you know Z then it's moot TBH, but for painting... Mari is miles better and faster. If you do hard surface models good luck with Mudbox VS Mari. Sure it's a lot harder to master but once you get there there is no way to go back to the stone age that mudbox is painting wise. Also no PBR in Mud... My 2 cents
I think i just got Triggered. JordanN: what do you mean it doesn't give you realtime feedback?
Oglu: With a bit of extension pack magic, you can paint procedurally with mari too.
The viewport itself lets you see your texture maps on your model, but I'm unaware of any actual rendering capabilities in Mudbox that actually lets you do anything with them.
Irukandji: Mudbox is very basic in terms of painting, there really isn't anything to learn. Its so simple that anyone with photoshop knowledge can Pick it up. Imo Mari doesn't feel as great when it comes to painting Characters/Creature, being able to paint directly in 3d on your Model feels much more satisfying then project and bake. It kinda takes away the flow, due to having to wait every time you bake. Sure Mari has a lot of procedurals for grunge. But its not as useful for Skin, No one would use a Axis projection for skin wrinkles unless its for a minor background character.
I'd try mari Personally If i couldnt use substance. I used it a few times, and theonly reason i dont use it is because substances does a good enough job IMO. 3D coat is also good, I use that whenever I feel like changing things up.
Irukandji: Mudbox is very basic in terms of painting, there really isn't anything to learn. Its so simple that anyone with photoshop knowledge can Pick it up. Imo Mari doesn't feel as great when it comes to painting Characters/Creature, being able to paint directly in 3d on your Model feels much more satisfying then project and bake. It kinda takes away the flow, due to having to wait every time you bake. Sure Mari has a lot of procedurals for grunge. But its not as useful for Skin, No one would use a Axis projection for skin wrinkles unless its for a minor background character.
I love painting on the paint buffer and project. There is a lot you can't do because of this in mudbox. It took time but that is something i really miss when using substance painter now as I can deform my paint before i project it, among other things. And considering all hero characters are done in Mari at work, I have to agree to disagree on you with mudbox being OK for character. it's slow, and in a production environment I don't have time to waste. the only advantage mudbox have is true symetrie.but then again with mari you can bypass those sucky symetry tools with clever UVs and miroriing of patches and or copying you paint by linking patches and so on... All that makes you go blazing fast.
I love painting on the paint buffer and project. There is a lot you can't do because of this in mudbox. It took time but that is something i really miss when using substance painter now as I can deform my paint before i project it, among other things. And considering all hero characters are done in Mari at work, I have to agree to disagree on you with mudbox being OK for character. it's slow, and in a production environment I don't have time to waste. the only advantage mudbox have is true symetrie.but then again with mari you can bypass those sucky symetry tools with clever UVs and miroriing of patches and or copying you paint by linking patches and so on... All that makes you go blazing fast.
Hey Irukandji, since you work in VFX, can you tell me what I should expect when moving to painting programs like Mari?
you are absolutely correct that all hero characters are done in Mari. I use it at work too. I dont quite understand the slow part? I dont use Mudbox for final textures. I use it as a start for base colors.
Replies
how viable it is for PBR texturing.
3dcoat has PBR painting features and an ability to create 'smart' material presets.
I didn't seem as versatile as Substance Painter when I used it, but it wasn't too bad.
It really isn't all that bad. Although it doesn't give you real time feedback and lacks certain brush settings, it's still basically photoshop in 3D.
I actually find this type of workflow more interesting because it leads me to try more creative solutions to supplement.
JordanN: what do you mean it doesn't give you realtime feedback?
Oglu: With a bit of extension pack magic, you can paint procedurally with mari too.
I use to have a gtx 860 with i5 computer that ran Mudbox pretty well, It was the only solution I had for painting hi-res multi-tile textures, Because I couldn't run Mari properly, lots of display issues. Technically you can achieve PBR textures within Mudbox. Roughness maps is literally just a inverted Gloss map. Metalness, if you have separated your materials efficiently into separate layers, it would be easy to turn it into metalness map with adjustment. Sure its a little bit more work than SP, but its a solution.
Most of the castle in King Arthur is also done without much hand painting, only the leakings and some ground transitions were hand painted. Maybe some brick / stone masks but procedurally enhanced so they were VERY loose to paint as the procedurals would refine the masking on it's own IE fast as hell to paint.
Jack of all trade: Mari. it's painting tools are untouchable. can handle a ton of UVs and channels. Advantage is if you don't have a lot of UDIMs it's the fastest of them all on old hardware... But might be overblown for game assets. In movies there isn't any other choice for hero assets (altho we started using painter on simple props). Cons no multiple channel painting but TBH i rarely see the advantages... But that's just me and I am not in games any more. Other con is if you want to lookdev in it then you need a hell of a video card and its shaders are kinda sucky.
Game specific: Substance painter for PBR. Multi channel painting and lookdev at the same time which can be awesome if you don't have dedicated lookdev people.
3DCoat is king in hand painted.
Mudbox... Why would anyone waste its time learning mudbox for painting is beyond me. For sculpting it's still very awesome, especially for organic models, but if you know Z then it's moot TBH, but for painting... Mari is miles better and faster. If you do hard surface models good luck with Mudbox VS Mari. Sure it's a lot harder to master but once you get there there is no way to go back to the stone age that mudbox is painting wise. Also no PBR in Mud...
My 2 cents
Imo Mari doesn't feel as great when it comes to painting Characters/Creature, being able to paint directly in 3d on your Model feels much more satisfying then project and bake. It kinda takes away the flow, due to having to wait every time you bake. Sure Mari has a lot of procedurals for grunge. But its not as useful for Skin, No one would use a Axis projection for skin wrinkles unless its for a minor background character.
I dont quite understand the slow part?
I dont use Mudbox for final textures. I use it as a start for base colors.