Story + questions, I want 3D modelling as a career.

TropicalTommy

Hello,sorry for the large amount of text to come,
I am Tommy, 25 and from England, I have recently realized that 3D modelling for games for a career is a future I want and can see myself being happy to do for the rest of my life.

I am very creative and great with my hands, constantly making models and painting them, making scenery and such in real life, when playing various games and have the option to create something I tend to excel at that and put a lot of effort and basically life into that project during the time I am doing it, got a good eye for detail and so on, however my computer skills are basically just above average, so I have the eye for this and the love for it but I lack a lot of basic skills I think you need for it.

I have been using Zbrush and enjoying it a lot, brand new to it still but able to make some nice things with the few brushes/tools I know how to use.
Today I found out about dividing in zbrush and now am able to do even more, which is great and very enjoyable.

I have worked in care in the past but past few years I have and am working in security, so my past jobs as well as education have not been related to art/3D modelling in anyway, which I fear will cause problems down the line.

My plan is to spend the next 2 years working with zbrush, then texturing and then maya, ideally working for free doing freelance work to build up a portfolio.
Thankfully my job has me being sent to various sites that are not that heavy, so I can practice zbrush and other programs/generally studying at work.


This year has been the worst of my life sadly and really made me think about the future, I have spent a lot of time looking for other lines of work as my current job doesn't pay well and is long hours, no way to advance and you are not in anyway valued, but I believe having a 3D modelling job would be something I could enjoy, it pays more than I would ever think I am worth but also isn't 12-15 hour shifts and you would be valued?(I am guessing, feel free to correct me if I am wrong).

My questions are:

Main thing to remember when trying to get this as a career in your opinion?

Do you need education and if so, in what form? I don't really have the time to go to college/uni due to already working most nights on long hours, I could do it but it would be a struggle to do for 3+ years.

Would you just as easy get a job if you could show that you have the skill as much as if you had went to college/uni?

What are the standard pro programs that would be wanted? so far I have been told Maya, Zbrush and Substance Painter?

How much of getting a job in 3D modelling has to do with your skill and how much has to do with your relationship with others in work and how you follow their instructions?

Typical day in the life of a 3d modeller (for games) at work?

Real requirements for a 3D modeller to get the job?(instead of what is advertised on a job)

How common are apprenticeships in 3D modelling and how do they even work when you are at work?


Hopefully this all makes sense and such, if not, please just ask me to type it out in a different way

Thank you.

Felixenfeu

As someone who spent more than 10 years doing modelling for fun and 5 years as a professional, here is my 2 cents. 

Main thing to remember when trying to get this as a career in your opinion?

It's not easy, needs a lot of work to get decent enough for a job, but it's a very rewarding job. Just be aware that you will basically learn new things your whole career. Be ready to get refused and rejected a lot during job hunting. It's part of the process, don't take it personal.

Do you need education and if so, in what form? I don't really have the time to go to college/uni due to already working most nights on long hours, I could do it but it would be a struggle to do for 3+ years.

You don't "need" an education, but it sure can help. If i recall correctly one of my friend didn't even finish high school. Go figure.
There is a lot of ressources online, enough for someone to get good.

What are the standard pro programs that would be wanted? so far I have been told Maya, Zbrush and Substance Painter?

That's pretty much the basics so I'd say it's a good start. There might be some specific software that you will learn along the way depending on the workflow you will develop and where you will work. Some studios have in-house tools that you will learn on the job. Most things I've learned on the job anyway. I don't know I must have worked over 30 softwares, from small to big, but daily I use these three (maya, zbrush, substance) 90% of the time.

Would you just as easy get a job if you could show that you have the skill as much as if you had went to college/uni?

Sure. The biggest problem you will encounter is that people who went to school will have much more networking than you. I know people that made all their networking online though, so it's not impossible. 

How much of getting a job in 3D modelling has to do with your skill and how much has to do with your relationship with others in work and how you follow their instructions? 

It's probably 50/50 I'd say.

Real requirements for a 3D modeller to get the job?(instead of what is advertised on a job)

I'm not sure I understand this question but it's basically what is advertised on job offers.

How common are apprenticeships in 3D modelling and how do they even work when you are at work?

I don't know about "apprenticeship" but some places will take internship. Maybe they are the same? They basically hire you to learn. My second 3D job was an internship that lasted 4 months. I was paid as an intern, then at the end they hired me fulltime. Everywhere I worked so far had a few paid interns.

Typical day in the life of a 3d modeller (for games) at work? 

I worked research, corporate, advertisement, games and films and it basically was all the same honestly. What do you want to know exactly? I spend most of my day drinking coffee, doing art (modelling), talking with people, getting feedback and brief from supervisors/leads, learning new tools and techniques, helping others if I see they need help. 

TropicalTommy

Felixenfeu said:

As someone who spent more than 10 years doing modelling for fun and 5 years as a professional, here is my 2 cents. 

Main thing to remember when trying to get this as a career in your opinion?

It's not easy, needs a lot of work to get decent enough for a job, but it's a very rewarding job. Just be aware that you will basically learn new things your whole career. Be ready to get refused and rejected a lot during job hunting. It's part of the process, don't take it personal.

Do you need education and if so, in what form? I don't really have the time to go to college/uni due to already working most nights on long hours, I could do it but it would be a struggle to do for 3+ years.

You don't "need" an education, but it sure can help. If i recall correctly one of my friend didn't even finish high school. Go figure.
There is a lot of ressources online, enough for someone to get good.

What are the standard pro programs that would be wanted? so far I have been told Maya, Zbrush and Substance Painter?

That's pretty much the basics so I'd say it's a good start. There might be some specific software that you will learn along the way depending on the workflow you will develop and where you will work. Some studios have in-house tools that you will learn on the job. Most things I've learned on the job anyway. I don't know I must have worked over 30 softwares, from small to big, but daily I use these three (maya, zbrush, substance) 90% of the time.

Would you just as easy get a job if you could show that you have the skill as much as if you had went to college/uni?

Sure. The biggest problem you will encounter is that people who went to school will have much more networking than you. I know people that made all their networking online though, so it's not impossible. 

How much of getting a job in 3D modelling has to do with your skill and how much has to do with your relationship with others in work and how you follow their instructions? 

It's probably 50/50 I'd say.

Real requirements for a 3D modeller to get the job?(instead of what is advertised on a job)

I'm not sure I understand this question but it's basically what is advertised on job offers.

How common are apprenticeships in 3D modelling and how do they even work when you are at work?

I don't know about "apprenticeship" but some places will take internship. Maybe they are the same? They basically hire you to learn. My second 3D job was an internship that lasted 4 months. I was paid as an intern, then at the end they hired me fulltime. Everywhere I worked so far had a few paid interns.

Typical day in the life of a 3d modeller (for games) at work? 

I worked research, corporate, advertisement, games and films and it basically was all the same honestly. What do you want to know exactly? I spend most of my day drinking coffee, doing art (modelling), talking with people, getting feedback and brief from supervisors/leads, learning new tools and techniques, helping others if I see they need help. 

Thanks for the great answers, about what is needed in the job, I meant with security the list is very long really none of it is needed or the "you will need to carry out" type of things rarely or never happen, so was wondering what is sort of unsaid in the job offers that would be just expected of you without saying if anything and what would be on the offers but not needed, like some jobs might say for example, driving is needed or 2+ years experience in that field is needed you still get the job even if you don't drive or have the asked skills.


What you said about a typical day sounds about right, but I mean literally start to finish on a day/week while working on games, my idea would be, your company would have some game to make, you being the modeller, get given a rough idea of what they want, say for example, some armour made for a game set in anicent rome, so you go look up what that would look like, start making it then once it half way done, show it to your project manager?(lead dev?) if what you have done so far is fine then you finish it and move on to the next thing you have to do?
That is what I am guessing anyway, not too much direction, just a rough idea or concept art then left to work on it?

50/50 you said about work relationships and actual skill, any ideas other than actual internships/apprenticeships to help with the proof of experience with deadlines/office relationships etc?

Again, thanks or the reply, really insightful.

Felixenfeu

armour made for a game set in anicent rome, so you go look up what that would look like, start making it then once it half way done, show it to your project manager?(lead dev?) if what you have done so far is fine then you finish it and move on to the next thing you have to do? 
That is what I am guessing anyway, not too much direction, just a rough idea or concept art then left to work on it?

Yeah pretty much. Most of the time you will be given a concept, a few constraints (low res, high res, number of polygon, etc. etc.) and you start from there, and get feedback while you do it. Depending on the job you might have a lot of artistic direction associated with your work, technical directives, etc.

50/50 you said about work relationships and actual skill, any ideas other than actual internships/apprenticeships to help with the proof of experience with deadlines/office relationships etc?

Freelance I guess? When you are just starting as junior people usually expect that you will ask lots of question, take more time, etc. So really as long as you are good, polite, professional, office relationships are pretty straightforward, like any other office really.

driving is needed or 2+ years experience in that field is needed you still get the job even if you don't drive or have the asked skills.

Well most job offers will ask for previous experience or college degree. That can be skipped if you prove your worth, compensated by freelancing if you can't work in an office, if you had online classes it's a plus, etc.. Otherwise aside from the obvious softwares like maya, zbrush, substance and others, sometime you might get a "knowledge of additional software X is recommended" which usually means that if you know it, good, if you don't, well you will learn it.

I just looked at a few job description for modelling and they describe really well what's needed otherwise. So it doesn't really compare to the long list you are talking about with security jobs.

TropicalTommy

Felixenfeu said:

armour made for a game set in anicent rome, so you go look up what that would look like, start making it then once it half way done, show it to your project manager?(lead dev?) if what you have done so far is fine then you finish it and move on to the next thing you have to do? 
That is what I am guessing anyway, not too much direction, just a rough idea or concept art then left to work on it?

Yeah pretty much. Most of the time you will be given a concept, a few constraints (low res, high res, number of polygon, etc. etc.) and you start from there, and get feedback while you do it. Depending on the job you might have a lot of artistic direction associated with your work, technical directives, etc.

50/50 you said about work relationships and actual skill, any ideas other than actual internships/apprenticeships to help with the proof of experience with deadlines/office relationships etc?

Freelance I guess? When you are just starting as junior people usually expect that you will ask lots of question, take more time, etc. So really as long as you are good, polite, professional, office relationships are pretty straightforward, like any other office really.

driving is needed or 2+ years experience in that field is needed you still get the job even if you don't drive or have the asked skills.

Well most job offers will ask for previous experience or college degree. That can be skipped if you prove your worth, compensated by freelancing if you can't work in an office, if you had online classes it's a plus, etc.. Otherwise aside from the obvious softwares like maya, zbrush, substance and others, sometime you might get a "knowledge of additional software X is recommended" which usually means that if you know it, good, if you don't, well you will learn it.

I just looked at a few job description for modelling and they describe really well what's needed otherwise. So it doesn't really compare to the long list you are talking about with security jobs.

I sort of knew what you said before but have had people telling me I don't have a clue about the job itself and will be shocked and rejected for various things, just wanted to make sure and ask people who actually have done and do the job about the various issues people come up with when I talk about trying to do this as a career, so again thanks.

Side note, just spent 3 hours with the police after a guy who was covered in blood from some other fight was threatened to hit me with a scaffold pole, that 3D modelling career can't come soon enough

Brian "Panda" Choi

@TropicalTommy
Any other steaming questions?  I think admittedly Felixenfeu hit most of the notes.

TropicalTommy

Brian "Panda" Choi said:

@TropicalTommy
Any other steaming questions?  I think admittedly Felixenfeu hit most of the notes.

Don't suppose you would answer them any differently? If so, I would love to hear.
However a couple of things I forgot to ask was about texturing and hard that is? doing the models seems easy but adding colour and basically doing a 3D painting depending on how realistic the model is seems like it would be hard?
Also in general when you are employed as a 3D modeller, would you be expected to do the rigging? and if so how much programming does that involve?
And how much programming if any would be involved in the job? or would you literally just be expected to do a 3D model with texture?
Lastly, anything you can think of to say that I haven't asked but might of over looked? really want to get a 2-3 year plan down, got a plan coming along but just want to really stick to it and work out what to focus training on and later on to focus on networking/meeting the couple of studios in my area.

Brian "Panda" Choi

Realistic texturing has its own challenges, yes.  The theory is different at certain points, but it's not impossible to learn.

3D modelers may be expected to rig in certain studios, but for both your manager and you, it'll be more helpful to say you can or cannot rig.  Or at least open to learning how to rig.

Rigging isn't programming so much as it is learning how script logic works in regards to 3D animation.  It's a different kind of hard, not learn C# hard.  But still require you to have some understanding of rigging's logic.

Not much programming needs to be involved, but is appreciated.  I'd really call it technical knowledge that you need to get a handle on. Why grouping things a certain way nets X result.  Or why these faces are Z-fighting?  The next immediate step is tech art, but that's already an odd hybrid of programming capability, technical knowledge, AND artistic skill.  Tech art includes shader creation, VFX generation, linking together animations, figuring out how an ability should trigger and how much of it needs to emit, etc.  Just think of tech art generally as "art implemented" instead of "art created."

Good employers will usually be explicit about responsibilities, and you have the opportunity and responsibility as well to express what you can or cannot do.

I would like to emphasize you can still make games as a complete newb.  Either contribute to a team or make your own small one.

As an example, we had a lot of student work from outside USC as art team members on The Maestros.  

TropicalTommy

Brian "Panda" Choi said:

Realistic texturing has its own challenges, yes.  The theory is different at certain points, but it's not impossible to learn.

3D modelers may be expected to rig in certain studios, but for both your manager and you, it'll be more helpful to say you can or cannot rig.  Or at least open to learning how to rig.

Rigging isn't programming so much as it is learning how script logic works in regards to 3D animation.  It's a different kind of hard, not learn C# hard.  But still require you to have some understanding of rigging's logic.

Not much programming needs to be involved, but is appreciated.  I'd really call it technical knowledge that you need to get a handle on. Why grouping things a certain way nets X result.  Or why these faces are Z-fighting?  The next immediate step is tech art, but that's already an odd hybrid of programming capability, technical knowledge, AND artistic skill.  Tech art includes shader creation, VFX generation, linking together animations, figuring out how an ability should trigger and how much of it needs to emit, etc.  Just think of tech art generally as "art implemented" instead of "art created."

Good employers will usually be explicit about responsibilities, and you have the opportunity and responsibility as well to express what you can or cannot do.

I would like to emphasize you can still make games as a complete newb.  Either contribute to a team or make your own small one.

As an example, we had a lot of student work from outside USC as art team members on The Maestros.  

Thanks for the reply, reading it made me a bit worried as I am not that great with computers not like studio level in my opinion, so anything to do with programming is daunting to me, I feel like I could easily contribute to a game with models + art but that is as far as I can see my skills going without real training/college.

sacboi

TropicalTommy said:

...I have and am working in security...

...so my past jobs as well as education have not been related to art/3D modelling in anyway, which I fear will cause problems down the line.

...I have spent a lot of time looking for other lines of work as my current job doesn't pay well and is long hours, no way to advance and you are not in anyway valued...

...but also isn't 12-15 hour shifts...

Side note, just spent 3 hours with the police after a guy who was covered in blood from some other fight was threatened to hit me with a scaffold pole...

Yeah get all that.

Been on the job for 9mths, though at times to be fair I'd found can be rewarding but overall really long crazy hours for not much compensation at the end of the day, considering the potential risks involved. So IMHO it's an industry as with most 'service' based businesses for that matter, are typically undervalued by the general public.

Anyways back on topic, from a self taught perspective there's a wealth of instructional material online, just depends on where you look in terms of quality. Two reliable resource libraries I've referenced over the years, Digital Tutors and Gnomon Workshop nine times outta ten tend to deliver positive outcomes when certain bottlenecks had cropped up. Actually one such DTs 40hr+ tutorial set I think especially relevant too your above surfacing query outlines several disciplines when generating 3D content:

Transforming Robot Production Pipeline

...learned a hellovalot from this tute series myself, so check it out.

TropicalTommy

sacboi said:

TropicalTommy said:

...I have and am working in security...

I have worked in care in the past but past few years I have and am working in security, so my past jobs as well as education have not been related to art/3D modelling in anyway, which I fear will cause problems down the line.

...I have spent a lot of time looking for other lines of work as my current job doesn't pay well and is long hours, no way to advance and you are not in anyway valued...

...but also isn't 12-15 hour shifts...

Side note, just spent 3 hours with the police after a guy who was covered in blood from some other fight was threatened to hit me with a scaffold pole...

Yeah get all that.

Been on the job for 9mths, though at times to be fair I'd found can be rewarding but overall really long crazy hours for not much compensation at the end of the day, considering the potential risks involved. So IMHO it's an industry as with most 'service' based businesses for that matter, are typically undervalued by the general public.

Anyways back on topic, from a self taught perspective there's a wealth of instructional material online, just depends on where you look in terms of quality. Two reliable resource libraries I've referenced over the years, Digital Tutors and Gnomon Workshop nine times outta ten tend to deliver positive outcomes when certain bottlenecks had cropped up. Actually one such DTs 40hr+ tutorial set I think especially relevant too your above surfacing query outlines several disciplines when generating 3D content:

Transforming Robot Production Pipeline

...learned a hellovalot from this tute series myself, so check it out.

Yeah, security is no fun in terms of how your employer just does not care about you in the slightest or even tries to show some fake care etc.


Thanks for the link, will sign up to that at some point and watch those, getting piled up with material for learning, which feels like like a lot but overall is good of course, plenty of time to study these all.
So again thanks.