Like the title says I am getting rejected for every art test I got but I don't know what I'm doing wrong, could you guys tell me what I'm doing wrong at the hand of these pictures?
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I want to become a Hard surface artist more focused on weapons and vehicles ( got a vehicle in the making) but although I am specializing I have had one rejection after another. But I wont let this set me back, I'll take the feedback to heart and improve upon it, there is no use in sitting in a dark corner, wailing over what has been or could have been. It is just a question of how well you can recover and keep moving. to improve upon it and thrive.
My artstation: https://www.artstation.com/stevensier
Replies
A more constant presentation with better lighting that shows more detail would help a lot.
Something like
I had to adjust the levels on pretty much every image to bring out more details, most of them were too dark.
Second, focus on showing technical skills and that you can be consistent, as well as showing variety. The modeling and detail on the second rifle look great, it's just hard to see the detail. The axe is kinda bland and boring as an asset, the detail is nice, but it's flat and a really simple shape that doesn't showcase much in terms of modeling or texturing skill.
Third, try making things feel more complete, finished, and polished. The arch, first rifle, axe, and environment look like they are just 70% finished. Things are blurry, flat, boring, and generic in places.
Thank you very much for your reply, and I've got to say you're right. It seems like it is a good idea to have a standard marmoset viewer where I can present my work in for the lighting of the presentation. as for the 70% done part it seems like it might be me calling it finished too soon and I should have a checklist of sorts for detail levels and such. to have a proper workflow. (If I am understanding this correctly)
I'll take this feedback to heart and will use it to improve. once again, thank you.
It varies from studio to studio but sometimes the hardsurface job overlaps with environment art. And by that same technicality, what if the guy with the bigger portfolio of both environments and props applies for the position?
That was something that caught my attention last year when I got interviewed. They knew I could model,texture and light but when I showed them my environments, I couldn't explain to them I still needed more time to work on them. That was a big wake up call for me to show up fully prepared.
Other than that, you only have 5 items which might just be too few. Although you do have an environment piece, which might be your best one, but I can't tell because it's a dark scene. Which may be by design but unfortunately it makes your work hard to see and appreciate.
I'd scrap all the images you have and make new ones. The assets are fine but all these images are framed poorly. Make sure your props are in the center of the image and fill out a reasonable amount of space, and are rotated in an angle that shows the most interesting part of a weapon. In case of weapons, this is usually the part that kills things. The barrel of guns, the head of the axe. Search some other ones on Artstation to see how others present them. Lighting seems fine but still, do play around with it to see if you can make it any better. I get that the environment is meant to be dark, but I think you could "imply" darkness with a bright blue light(as if moonlight), which is what games often do at night time, since the player still needs to see.
But I don't know if any of these will actually help you, finding a job is just plain difficult. Good luck to the both of us.
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/G95LB
@Metemer
This was touched upon earlier too, it seems like it might be a good idea to redo the presentation for each piece. or at least study up on this subject because from what I have learned in the view replies already is that my presentation leaves much to be desired.
@Maximum-Dev
thanks man, I already saw this a while ago but this time I'll study it more
Thank you guys all very much for the feedback. I really appreciate this. Right now the last rejection has lit a fire under my ass and I really REALLY want to improve.so Ill take everything you guys just said to heart. once again, thanks a lot.
Even just something simple goes a long way.
It seems like it. I think i'll spend the upcoming days redoing them in marmoset. Thanks for the help man.
Be concise in your picture, so maybe have:
Remember that these people look through hundreds of portfolios when looking for someone to hire, make sure yours stand out in presentation and technical skill.
Keep up the good work
you've got some further fundamental issues you need to fix up, they all screamed out at me with all klaxons going off before I considered any visual presentation problems.
- you call yourself a 'junior weapon and vehicle artist' but have no vehicles to show. Announce what you are, not what you want to be, anything else is irrelevant.
Also, without a fully fleshed out portfolio of weapons/vehicles all you're doing is pigeonholing yourself into a niche (making your other environment work seem out of place) ... but with the cardinal crime of nothing to back it up. Even if you luck out and a company is specifically looking for a 'junior weapon/vehicle artist' they'll pass over you in a second.
- your 3 weapons scream 'I've downloaded a pack of patterns and By god I'm going to use them'. You need some new tricks, show you can approach designs in different ways rather than just stamping the same motifs everywhere.
- do you have references for your axe? It's intricately gilded but the metal looks like it's been very roughly cast, or bashed about in a way that hasn't affected the gilding. Most odd, can't look past it.
- seriously, take your newspaper route the hell off your CV. Relevant experience *only. The correlation between rejections and CVs with weird shit on them is very high and rightfully so. Portfolio to catch the eye and provide the meat of your application, but before an interview your CV *will be read.
On the textures, Yeah, I think you're right. I need to spend more time on texturing and not just slapping smart mats on there and sliding the sliders a bit.
There was no reference for the axe. the only reason I have it on there at the moment is because if I don't I have almost nothing on my folio. I know its quality over quantity but.. people will just open it, see 1 or 2 things, close it. thinking ''he is not ready yet'' I mean, clearly I am not ready otherwise I would work in the industry but that is really the only reason for the axe to be there atm.
His tutorial is pretty cheap and will give you a great understanding of how wood and metal texturing should be done in a more realistic way. It also covers good presentation in marmoset!
Overall I like your models so with better presentation and textures you're good to go. Also looking forward to seeing that vehicle
Aside from the quality of the work, being rejected is normal. I have been rejected for a ton of jobs. Any time you send in a job application to the jobs@gamecompany email or reply to a listing and you aren't friends with someone who works there, expect a high chance of rejection.
ah, I totally forgot that Tim has that tutorial. thanks for reminding me, I'll get that
@almighty_gir
@AlecMoody
I usually work from 10-11 am till 2 am minus food breaks and other minor things. There are a couple of things I got going on atm but all in all I think I will be able to do that after I get better at presenting what I have now and using that for later too.
Thanks a bunch you guys for helping me out in here. I'll take this feedback to heart.
Using a gun as an example, this doesn't necessarily just mean finding good gun ref photos. It also means find material references for each separate material you are using. So, you're looking for ref photos of hand-worn wood for the stock, how the wood wears where a hand touches it, and what the edges look like as it blurs to some other treatment over the top of the wood. Maybe you're looking at gun barrels or other metal pipes and how they wear for the barrel. Maybe you're looking at different metal/wood handles and handholds for the gun grip. These handles could be for doors, drawers, whatever if they're showing the type of wear and character you want to impart on your model. And on and on.
In my experience, you've got to be super detail oriented and pay very close attention to real world ref photos to make good materials. You'll get there. Just keep putting in the work.
how often do you get a lead artist you fully respect to go over your work and tell you exactly the kind of thing they would want to see? I am so stoked over the feedback I got and went straight to work on it.
Looks like the comming time will be a productive experience in becoming better!
Side note, would it be alright if I posted some of the ''updates'' here? so you guys could say ''Yay or Nay''?
if you use 2.7k polys for a simple shape like that axe and then you show this in one of the pictures I don't think that will get you any favours.
Same with the musket you've made:
From what I can tell you've spent most of your 6.7k polys on very small bevels which is a huge waste with no benefit.
High-res textures are always good since you can mipmap them but using so many polys for nothing doesn't show a good understanding of lowpoly modeling. It should be relatively easy to fix though, just learn to use the polys in a smarter way
So I think I can do it better in the future, the only reason I have yet to remove the older pieces is because if I do I then have nothing.
It might be better to have nothing instead of this but I do not know if that correct.
If that's the case, then it shouldn't matter what's on it currently, because you should suspend your applications until your port is more consistent in its quality. If you're applying with a low quality model you're keeping in there just because your port is too small without it (the axe) , then maybe you ought to refine that asset before applying at all. Otherwise you're just getting your name out there on work that you yourself consider below your standards.
Like several folks have said, I think there's some fundamental problems to address in your work, like responsible poly density and material definition, and that you should stop and focus on. This could mean updating existing works in your portfolio, but I'm more inclined to say that you'll probably learn more if you start building new projects from scratch. I'd stick to single prop projects for the time being and build up your skills that way. This'll help you to work quickly and iteratively and improve your overall technique. Post your in progress stuff here on the forum, there's a whole lot of people on this site that can help you learn and grow in the right direction!
Thank you for your reply. I did consider this but it seems like I didn't want to do it until someone said ''Hey, it might be a better idea to make a portfolio revision'' or better said. I hesitated on removing everything. But I think I'll do that. It seems like this is the smartest choice for now.
also, Im guessing people would want to see the wireframe? should I just have all these images with a slightly visible wire on it or post a marmo viewer at the bottom? I was told not a lot of people look at it
I would make one shot only with normal map and wiremap overlay (would take the first camera setting for it) and one extra picture with the textures presented.
For this you can e.g. also use the first camera perspective and then put the different textures into the albedo channel in marmorset, then overlap the pictures and mask out parts of the texture sheets. At the end you should have one picture, with the model showing parts of all textures (can't find an example of it yet).
Also put your name and contact details on every picture, you don't know where someone will find it (maybe a friend of a friend share it on twitter and then no one will know who did this piece). Maybe make a special "signature frame" you will use for all of your pictures/models, so people recognize it.
The marmorset (or sketchfab) viewer at the end would be a nice bonus, but as far as I understood most hiring people will not use it, because they don't have that much time for every application they get (so maybe if you pass round 1 they will look at it^^).
I don't know if my portfolio is that good, but maybe you can get some inspiration there:
https://www.artstation.com/dethling
@Dethling
something like this? the logo seems kind of redundant with the text but idk how easy it is to shop out text. as for the logo, drop the black background?
The contact details/logo etc. are not meant to be a watersign to avoid art-theft but to make it easier for people who stumble across your art (google search, printerest etc.) to get in contact with you if they like what they see.
I would make a few breakdowns too. That's something you are lacking at the moment.
Here is a few different exemples :
Tor Frick doesn't have text and you can recognize his work. It's all about personal style and presentation.
https://www.artstation.com/snefer
Or when he does it's simple :
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/9W4O
Since you are starting out it sure is a good idea to use something but just don't overdo it. ex. on my old website :
http://felixars.weebly.com/monique.html
This guy just put map size, tricount, and breakdowns, he really keep it simple but with a good presentation. The work speaks for itself.
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/9BJKO
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/aRgN9
In terms of presenting guns/props you need to take a classic simple approach, no need for logos or names or any of that shit. Just show the images lit well, with a focus on how the player is going to see it in game. You want close ups of parts that will be animated, how the side is going to look when running around etc.
The grey background is bad. It neutralizes highlights. Try a darker background. You don't need gradients or fancy images in the background, they quantize and just look low quality.
Here are some excellent examples of how to present weapons work.
https://www.artstation.com/polygoo
https://www.artstation.com/ryzinart
https://www.artstation.com/liesforloversx
Youre work could use some polishing, but currently its really difficult to crit in the way its presented.
@radiancef0rge
sure, let me show you some. here is a link to a mini gallery ( made a lot since I thought more = better) https://imgur.com/a/EPOBe
and here is a turn table of one version. (the old one, pre wood rework and all)
edit: is this brighter background a bit better? also I made the logo 60% of its original size.
I could crit your modeling, but the generically speaking your weakest point is your edges are way too tight. In terms of texturing the location of your grime and edgewear doesn't make sense. Can you post your texture flats so we can take a look at those?
I think after this last bit of critique and getting those renders down with nice lighting and stuff you should move on to a new piece. Something smaller in scope where you can focus on the details. A stove, microwave something like that. If you want to make weapons choose something simple that you can knock out of the park. I think something like a WW1 bayonet would be great, maybe a trench helmet with a shield.
I would consider scrapping the current logo you have and just doing your name in plaintext or something, I don't mean any offense here but it looks a bit amateurish and unrefined as far as graphic design goes and that does bear some relevance since you're looking for a job as a visual artist. Either do a really good logo with impeccable graphic design, or don't do one and just type your name. Even a really good logo can look kind of self-indulgent in my personal opinion, not that it probably matters to most people.
I think your background is fine in the most recent shot, the grungy stuff is subtle enough to not be annoying. You might want to try darker backgrounds and see how you like it, lighter backgrounds show silhouette well but a darker one will make your materials and interior details pop.
There's a few things you're doing with the wood that I think could be improved also
Keep it up, your improvement is legit
hearing the critique tho I probably have to rework some parts of the mesh even. while I don't mind it I also thought about doing a new piece and posting that, after each work day. like a ''lets build it right, this time'' kind of deal (if that makes sense)
@Amsterdam Hilton Hotel
I made that logo in a bit of a hurry yeah, guess a name would be enough.
as for the background i am kind of stuck on this one. one says go light, the other says go dark.
also, the wood grain tip you just gave looks fantastic but to be completely honest I do not completely understand it. so I'll do some research on it
here are the texture maps too but I kind of went overboard with it so expect twice the maps that are needed
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_h8lGmXRHI6SnpMY253OXh2Y2s/view?usp=sharing
We can only point out some obvious issues (e.g. bad lightning).
In generell I would take a look at other artist and get inspired by the presentations. Then grab what you like and develop your own presentation style from it (and take your time for the presentation pictures^^).
here is a light and a dark variation. tell me your thoughts
Whereas if you develop a good visual sense (understanding and applying fundamental design principles, and working from strong target references), you can tackle presentation with a clearly established plan and then start tweaking things organically.
In short, keep the guesswork out of the process ; plan, then execute.
It makes me to focus more on the weapon (and it´s silhouette) rather than the whole image like the light background.
although, that is what I tried to do. maybe It didn't succeed.
If not, suggesting to do a "3 point lighting" is about as useful as saying "just make it look good". It's totally possible to follow so-called 3 point lighting rules but still ending up with a poor render (for instance by giving the background plate a hue and value not contrasting enough with the subject, or contrasting too much, or using lights that are too strong, or too dim, or using an exposure setting that clips the highlights, and so on).
As with anything CG related, your best course of action isn't to fiddle with render settings but rather, picking up a DSLR and developing a good understanding of photography (and in your case, product photography in particular). Of course that's not a requirement to get good renders out of your 3d app, but it will without a doubt be hugely beneficial in the long run.
so If I understand this correctly, you mean to ask if I have references for the lighting I am trying to create for the rifle?
and if not practicing photography would make me learn/get a feel for properly lighting a scene/prop?
if not then I am not sure I understand your comment correctly. :V
That said, the rifle pictures with a medium grey background are pretty nice !
When people say "this bevel is too tight, this normal is too strong" it doesn't necessarily mean that fixing these will get you a job or that you are missing out on jobs because art directors spot such details.
These are small representations of your inexperience, and they are mistakes that teach you to make the next model better. Keep applying for positions as you keep improving. There is no definite tipping point, just a long gradient where your get more and more hire-able.
Guess I also need references after the modelling and texturing phase. thanks for pointing that out
also, thanks ! (on the medium grey)
@fearian
I didn't think it would ''fix my jobless-ness'' (if that is even a word) but I did think that fixing them would make it better.
that I would get better results.
Thanks for the honesty though. that's why i'm here after all. to improve. and to do so by borrowing the experience and wisdom of you guys, which is greatly appreciated
so, I'll soon return with some new stuff. thanks for the advice so far!
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/klRW0
It isn't a solid background. But it doesn't draw away from the detail. It actually accentuates the weapon.
I also forgot to post this here
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/W5b83
so this is the result and I will jam on with learning on new projects now, see you guys around and thanks you all for helping me out here!
This really means a lot to me
You make a UV channel that's just a planar projection perpendicular to whatever axis you want the striations to run along, then apply a material to it with a black and white gradient ramp. Scale the UVs around to get the frequency you want. Then bake that black and white gradient to a normally-unwrapped UV channel as a diffuse map (or just do the gradients on the HP and bake diffuse to the LP). Now you have a seamless wood striation mask that conforms to the model for use in texturing