Making 3DSMAX Movement behave like UE4?

Bletzkarn

By default UE4 snaps every 10cm when using the basic move tool. Is there anyway to make 3DSMAX behave this way as well, without the need of generating a lot of custom grids - ideally it wouldn't even act as the current snap settings behave, rather it would clamp all movement to a minimum of 10cm?

Currently I've just been using boxes of the sizes I need and snapping to those, hardly ideal!

Larry

Why are you using boxes? There is the option to make the grid spacing 10cm each and you can change the grid settings to snap on grid only. Both of these are in the Grids and Snap settings.

if you want to have this in perspective view something like this might help you
https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/3ds-max/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2017/ENU/3DSMax/files/GUID-F44BBCB6-2C2D-43A1-8EB7-FEDBA687995B-htm.html

Worst case scenario, make a big plane snapping to grid points, divide it with the same number as the grid, and use vertex snapping as well as grid snapping. This way you can rotate it as well 

Bletzkarn

Does that not restrict movement strictly to the xy plane?

Even with custom grids at all time wont either the x, y or z coordinate need to be zero?

I want to be able to move an object anywhere and it always respects the 10cm increment.

Larry

Bletzkarn said:

Does that not restrict movement strictly to the xy plane?

Even with custom grids at all time wont either the x, y or z coordinate need to be zero?

I want to be able to move an object anywhere and it always respects the 10cm increment.

Then i do not know any solution other than making a plane that has the same spacing as the grid, and rotate it / move it however you like, and use some orthographic views to move it around. You can also turn angle snap.
With a quick search i found a couple of things you could try
https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/3ds-max/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2016/ENU/3DSMax/files/GUID-427280CA-8CE8-4C6D-9AF6-8BBDC300BA61-htm.html

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/3ds-max/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2016/ENU/3DSMax/files/GUID-66F42B65-7EA5-4CF8-BBF1-46EBC0845C75-htm.html

Larry

What is it that you want to make? Maybe i can help you with that instead of snapping. It's all about problem solving in 3d

ActionDawg

What's wrong with making a custom grid? Also, why do you need this? If you want to position something at 30,10,50 just do it. You've read through the last thread on this topic and bumped it, so you know what is possible and that the features as they exist work just fine.

I feel that the whole snapping debacle in that thread and here is an artificial problem.

Bletzkarn

somedoggy said:

What's wrong with making a custom grid? Also, why do you need this? If you want to position something at 30,10,50 just do it. You've read through the last thread on this topic and bumped it, so you know what is possible and that the features as they exist work just fine.

I feel that the whole snapping debacle in that thread and here is an artificial problem.

Unfortunately the other thread didn't exactly find a solution either.

The reason i do not enjoy moving an object to 10,20,10 for example, is because I believe these numbers are floats and can become innacurate. For example if I push a vert of box to 10,20,10 and the same for another box. The 2 verts won't actually line up but be fractions of milimetres off.

The error can compound quickly and your faces are no longer planar.

It is also mimic's UE4 in that if it's modular in 3dsmax it will be modular in ue4 without 0,0,0 pivots.

The other reason is if Im laying out a building plan or model, and I know a wall is 225cm. But its origin is actualy 335, 27.865, 52.31. All of a sudden it becomes very difficult to measure this accurately.

I searched the internet for a good hour trying to find a solution but couldn't find anything. There are the custom grid tools but in a completely 3D space you're talking about turning grids on and off constantly.

Im sure it wouldnt even be hard to make script that always rounds the xyz values to the closest 10cm.

At the moment I'm relying on vertex snapping and reference boxes. Which takes a little longer but is at least accurate.

Axi5

When you're moving objects in 3D space you're typically always moving in floats/doubles.

The first unrepresentable integer in 24bit float is 2^24+1. You're typically not on that scale, so any 1.000003 errors you're getting are due to Max's internal calculations.

What's the problem with working in quad view while you do your laying out?

Bletzkarn

I like to be accurate within my scene which means I need accurate measurements at all times - which helps with creating more believable scenes. I come from a product design background using Solidworks so accurate modelling is.. just built into me at this point.

The system I'm suggesting just allows for a much faster workflow that is present in other modelling packages. Setting up custom grids is actually slowing the workflow down which is not ideal. I still find it interesting that after all these years there's still no elegant solution.

For now reference geometry is the fastest way to achieve this.

Axi5

Sounds like that's getting in your way to create good art. Being off by .000003 is not going to show. Also, if you're using the quad views you're not just restricted to the xz grid, you'll have xy and zy as well. You should also be able to set a custom grid per viewport.

It sounds like you're trapping yourself with this problem. Max is not designed for extreme accuracy, it's a media dcc tool, it won't ever be Solidworks. Plenty of people create modular assets in Max that snap together really well, so the software is capable.

poopipe

I'm struggling a bit to see the problem here too - I'm utterly obsessed with accuracy in positioning and find max to be a joy to work with in that respect.

I can't help feeling the OP simply hasn't got the knack yet, if you explore the behaviour of the snap tools on different subobject types and in different viewports, use relative transforms in the type-in (enter "r50" to move 50 units) and so on you should find you can deal with anything linear without resorting to custom grids or building tools. 

Bletzkarn

Axi5 said:

Sounds like that's getting in your way to create good art. Being off by .000003 is not going to show. Also, if you're using the quad views you're not just restricted to the xz grid, you'll have xy and zy as well. You should also be able to set a custom grid per viewport.

It sounds like you're trapping yourself with this problem. Max is not designed for extreme accuracy, it's a media dcc tool, it won't ever be Solidworks. Plenty of people create modular assets in Max that snap together really well, so the software is capable.

Fair enough, really I only use this restrictions for things like arch viz, and even then for more complicated models it's just the bounding region I need  accuretly.

Bletzkarn

poopipe said:

I'm struggling a bit to see the problem here too - I'm utterly obsessed with accuracy in positioning and find max to be a joy to work with in that respect.

I can't help feeling the OP simply hasn't got the knack yet, if you explore the behaviour of the snap tools on different subobject types and in different viewports, use relative transforms in the type-in (enter "r50" to move 50 units) and so on you should find you can deal with anything linear without resorting to custom grids or building tools. 

I'm slowly improving my workflows, but I've been using grid systems for a long long time. I don't agree with the argument of "there's other ways" seeing as it's a feature of many mainstream engines. Even offset is several actions more than just dragging an object over, it greatly reduces speed.

Larry

In the end you can move the object by selecting local axis and move it to specified distance.

But if we start talking about trigonometry, if you rotate an object lets say 15degrees and move it 10cm in the local direction, it wil automatically wont be able to snap to the grid, it will be off in every axis. So if you want modularity, you cannot achieve it this way. What you can do is check the snap to vertex and snap to grid, after that click on a vertex of your object and drag it to the specified point. This way it drags the whole model but snaps it from your vertex, not your pivot. Honestly that is propably your best solution.

Even in ue4 if I am not mistaken you can rotate and move to local axis but it gradually offsets.

Try searching for local axis snapping

Bletzkarn

I definitely agree larry, maybe it's just arch viz but I find it's far more useful for that application, as most of the time you're dealing with right angles, or very deliberate angles (30, 45, 60). If I was modelling a chair or bed, once I had the basic measurements it would just be a free for all, however for laying out a room, it would be nice to strictly be sticking to perpendicular angles. I don't like using auto-cad for that because the splines have terrible topology if you try to extrude them.

Axi5

You could write a script that automatically creates and destroys a grid based upon the normal of the selection you have enabled. That way you'll get arbitrary angles.

Larry

Bletzkarn said:

I definitely agree larry, maybe it's just arch viz but I find it's far more useful for that application, as most of the time you're dealing with right angles, or very deliberate angles (30, 45, 60). If I was modelling a chair or bed, once I had the basic measurements it would just be a free for all, however for laying out a room, it would be nice to strictly be sticking to perpendicular angles. I don't like using auto-cad for that because the splines have terrible topology if you try to extrude them.

Oh yea i've seen that happen alot in architecture class.... And there is no work around for these splines.... Have you tried importing from autocad what you want, and then make a spline on top of it with snapping?

Bletzkarn

Larry said:

Bletzkarn said:

I definitely agree larry, maybe it's just arch viz but I find it's far more useful for that application, as most of the time you're dealing with right angles, or very deliberate angles (30, 45, 60). If I was modelling a chair or bed, once I had the basic measurements it would just be a free for all, however for laying out a room, it would be nice to strictly be sticking to perpendicular angles. I don't like using auto-cad for that because the splines have terrible topology if you try to extrude them.

Oh yea i've seen that happen alot in architecture class.... And there is no work around for these splines.... Have you tried importing from autocad what you want, and then make a spline on top of it with snapping?

This is often what I have to do at work, but considering the volume it's usually just hit render haha.

I've done over 1000 renders at work but the longest I've ever gotten to spend on a full scene is 12 hours (averages 2 hours) start to finish. I realised that having 1000 mediocre renders is not as good as having 1 amazing one. So trying to pour a couple hundred hours into a personal project.

Butthair

All I could find..
https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/3ds-max-forum/auto-snap-verts-to-whole-numbers-on-object-move-or-dragging/td-p/5452916

Bletzkarn

Butthair said:

All I could find..
https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/3ds-max-forum/auto-snap-verts-to-whole-numbers-on-object-move-or-dragging/td-p/5452916

Interesting read, I will have to try this out.

It definitely works well but needs to be fleshed out for now. Only work with edit poly on, or not at all (but not both at the same time). With some fleshing out this script could be really useful.

Damn just made it feel like it is possible but doubt we'll ever see it.

Mirbobo

At work we have a script/settings that let's us do this with the arrows keys. We use plus/minus to change the snap amount and page up and down for z movement, so it should be doable. Combine that with the standard snapping and you pretty much have something to what you want. Unfortunately can't share the script but I doubt it's too hard to re-create.