Feedback on Workflow
polycounter lvl 6
Hello polycount,
I wanted to see if I could get some feedback on a workflow that I want to use to improve my 3D art. I know workflow is pretty unique per person/project but any suggestion is welcome. I'm wondering if I'm thinking of something the wrong way or if I'm missing steps, the worst part would be to go far along the process and then find out that the model is not good for animation and that is why I made the topic.
Goal
Conceptualize, and model a game character from start to finish from Maya to Unreal Engine.
Details of Goal
- Humanoid character
- Polycount 25,000 - 35,000tris
- Needs Subsurface Scattering on skin
- Needs Ambient Occlusion
- Animation Ready
- Optimized for Games
Workflow
1) Base Mesh = Maya
2) Sculpt High Poly = ZBrush
3) Retopology = Mudbox
Note: I think for this step I would use Automatic retopology, I've seen some good results though I am not sure how efficient it is on organic models compared to manual retopology.
4) UV Unwrap = Maya
5) Texture = Photoshop
6) Subsurface Scattering + Ambient Occlusion + Normal Map = Zbrush
7) Baking (if necessary) = Maya
8) Rig = Maya
9) Weight Paint = Maya
10) Animate = Maya
11) Export
12) Import to Unreal Engine
NOTES & QUESTIONS
Let me just say that weight painting and mirroring weights in Maya is the bane of my existence. I am not sure if it's as tedious in other programs but every time I mirror the weights they don't seem to go where they should even if the mesh is symmetrical. Any tips on how to improve weight mirroring?
Sometimes the models I make are very hard to deal with when rigging because they don't deform as I intended. Is this because it doesn't have enough polys in the bend area or are pro level models very reliant on helper joints, twist joints, and blend shapes? (I have tried different topology layouts for knee, elbows, and shoulders but they tend to make the model look weird when smoothed)
Should I bake Subsurface scattering maps, ambient occlusion, and normal maps in a modeling software or should I do that within the game engine? I figured it should be in the game engine but maybe baking them would improve performance? Not sure.
Hope this is not an obvious-answer question but, if I were to follow the standard edge flow of face modeling, am I more or less guaranteed to get proper facial expressions? The humanoid character is only a bit stylized, like an Overwatch character.
Should I convert the polys to tris within the modeling software or should I leave it to Unreal to change it for me? I've heard that most if not all engines take care of converting polys to tris. Or is it more of a control thing?
Replies
Do not attempt to "figure out" a technical workflow while tackling a complex artistic endeavour at the same, it's the recipe for disaster and frustration.
There are indeed countless of different ways to get there. Some are incredibly convoluted and wasteful, and some are super efficient. So to figure out what works for you to create content indistinguishable from professional models and doing it efficiently, start simple. For instance, why note taking one of these guys through the whole pipeline :
Once you've done that you'll be ready for more complex stuff.
Your main problem seems to be that you are trying to rush it too much. This is understandable as I'm sure you're excited. However, it can lead to bad habits, a lot of wasted time, a haphazard workflow, and poor results. Slow things down. This stuff takes a lot of time. Endless hours of dedicated, quality study and practice.
Self-experimentation in small, byte-sized projects that focus on single aspects of the workflow/pipeline are key to progressing. I wish I had discovered this many years back in my own self-taught(for want of a better phrase) journey. CG is constant learning. Even after a decade the learning continues. 2 decades.....3...... the learning never ends. So why rush?
It's weird, this is like the third time only this week that someone has this idea and I'm here wondering why, from where did you guys got that info?
Don't take this as an offense, I'm really curious since you're a beginner and most of the time when you're a beginner you actually get your info from other sources, which makes me wonder who or what is the source of this.
I strongly agree with pior, start with something simple to test the pipeline. Make a basemesh of like 1000 polys and take it through all the steps. To skin something which is 1000 polys is relatively quick. To texture a 1000 poly character is also relatively quick.
To fix skinning/texturing/bake problems on a 25,000 - 35,000 tris character is a different beast.
I would also suggest that you keep the texture size small for the first pass. Like 512 textures or something like that. Just to get the big shapes right to start with.
Once you have the 1000 poly character all the way through you have made some very important findings.
Each area of your character pipeline is a potential time sink. If you are new to ZBrush you can easily spend months there for example.
Doing the basemesh for highres modelling is quite different from the mesh that you make for skinning.
basemesh for high poly = proportions are right and the mesh will subdivide nicely.
basemesh for skinning = the mesh has more edgeloops in areas that deform a lot. More geometry in face, hands, knees, shoulder, hands etc.