Modeling workflow question

EosOfOrcus

Hi there guys! 

I have been working for a while now in modeling stuff using maya/zbrush and mudbox or substance for texturing. i feel like there is still thing to learn and there is still things that i have been trying to figure out myself. So i'm coming here asking for some help and insight. 

Right now i feel like i'm hitting a wall trying to figure out a good workflow for my pipeline when i'm texturing. When i usually model. i model with cinematic rendering in mind. I don't really pay attention to real time rendering yet. And that means that i often use displacement maps on my meshes. The biggest issue that i'm having right now is when i''m making a displacement map of the high poly mesh for the low poly model using zbrush. Many of the details that are in the high poly model aren't in the low poly mesh (for example bevels). Then when it's time to texture in the lowpoly mesh i have hard time trying to figure out where exactly are those some details that i created with the displacement map.

I have found ways to solve this problem. One is doing polypaint inside zbrush and then exporting the polypaint into the texture map and another is exporting the high poly mesh obj with the subdivision levels from zbrush and inserting it into mudbox, where i do the texturing there.
In both cases i did the retopo and the uvs in maya after finished sculpting in zbrush. And then i started adding extra details into the retopoed mesh. 
But i feel like both ways are consuming to much time and the are really clunky to use.

I don't know how if i'm explaining it really well what i'm trying to say. But at the end of the day i really want to figure out a good workflow that will allow me going back and forth from software to software and is less time consuming in terms of jumping from software to software. 
Please help me out to find a good solid workflow.

kanga

What is the end use of your model? If its for games then you need to tessellate the mesh, which is pretty heavy. Displacement maps change geometry as far as I know. If you are making a lower poly mesh for movie animation then displacement comes into effect when the mesh is subdivided.

Perhaps giving some info on what you are trying to make would help.

EosOfOrcus

kanga said:

What is the end use of your model? If its for games then you need to tessellate the mesh, which is pretty heavy. Displacement maps change geometry as far as I know. If you are making a lower poly mesh for movie animation then displacement comes into effect when the mesh is subdivided.

Perhaps giving some info on what you are trying to make would help.

Sorry if i wasn't clear. I mostly do stuff for movie animation. 
My pipeline usually goes [zbrush]sculpt(also maybe details>[maya]retopo/Uvs>[zbrush]Details>[mudbox/substance]texturing

musashidan

I haven't used Mudbox in years but, can't you apply the disp map as a layer and texture there?

I assumed you're talking about a character but you mentioned bevels so does that mean it's a hard-surface asset?(in which case disp mapping wouldn't make much sense) more info please.

EosOfOrcus

musashidan said:

I haven't used Mudbox in years but, can't you apply the disp map as a layer and texture there?

Yeah you can. But the way the mudbox displays displacement maps is kinda shit.

musashidan said:

I assumed you're talking about a character but you mentioned bevels so does that mean it's a hard-surface asset?(in which case disp mapping wouldn't make much sense) more info please.

Yeah right now i'm working with a statue model. To be honest i could use normal maps and do certain things to make my life easier. But i'm trying to push myself and learn things like displacement maps and how to do certain things.

I did mention bevels. Because what i have in my mind is not trying to solve a problem. With this forum post i'm trying to get your opinions and ideas for workflows and pipelines that you use... maybe i didn't state myself well. But i wan't to learn, for future use and try to save myself some time

kanga

Oh yeah I was foggy this morning and seems I didn't read you post properly Its a while ago I used displacement maps but I would of thought bevels would be ok since you only get displacement  when you subdivide the model at the end. I understood displacement was for large details, normal naps are for high frequency detail. Someone else will probably know more but I would bake displacement for big forms (like changing the silhouette of the model) and bake normal maps for the high/fine detail. I dont know why you need to go back and forth so much, depending on if you are busy with development.

For me its usually:
ZBrush/Max high detail model, export to disk.
Zbrush decimate and export a copy to Max.
Max for retopo to get a low poly and then uvs
Import low into substance/point to high on disk and bake maps/texture, export to Max
Rig textured model in Max.

Cheers

EosOfOrcus

That's right. The reason it takes for me so long is because I was trying to figure out which mesh I should export for texturing. 

My approach was to take the retopoed mesh that I had from maya. Sculpt the extra details that I wanted in zbrush. Create a displacement map. And then export the mesh from zbrush to mudbox. That's how I was able to save up the subdivision levels on my mesh. But by doing that, I figured out that wasn't as fast or efficient that I thought it would be. 

kanga

Oh yeah, I get it. Hmmmmmmm. ZBrush is pretty good at displacement as I remember. Substance can bake height maps but cant view them in the application, yet. You can paint extra details in substance painter by editing the normal map, but I would have to test the workflow to find the most efficient. Maybe someone else has an idea.

EosOfOrcus

Thanks a lot man