Sadly, it isn't really on us to dictate what gets sent in. We (my team) are active with schools, GDC, online, etc. to help educate but the only the only thing we can do, hiring wise, is spread the message like this and/or decline demo reels as they are presented. Which, is practically what happens, much like an illustration portfolio for a 3d job. Even with auto-decline, though, you still see plenty of portfolios with a youtube / vimeo link - it's a pretty hard trend to ignore. A trend that hasn't changed in over 15 years, despite everything else upgrading.
I'm definitely on board with Marmoset Viewer / Sketchfab as an alternative. Though, there are certainly draw backs if you are trying to show your best work possible (mainly resolution) and load times. Regardless, it's 10x better than 357 useless frames. For VR, I can see that working as an interactive experience in the future...but if I need to do that 100 times in a row, I'll probably be shipped off to an insane asylum :P
I don't think the situation's gonna change anytime soon.
I'm extremely biased and pessimistic on the subject but from my own experience with schools and the testimonials of many other students, I feel like some of these institutions are stuck in their own bubble where basically : - students don't know shit and therefore cannot be right about something - students who try to do research on their own and propose better ideas backed up by a lot of people on the internet (i.e. demo reels?) will be seen as trouble-makers and dangerous elements that can pose a threat to the general happy feeling they're trying hard to keep among the students - teachers are pros and speak the truth, no matter what previous experience or time since they stopped working to teach full time - the lack of quality education leads to poor graduate works which leads to the actual pros not wanting to make connections and partnerships - that previous point closes the endless circle that makes for a lack of industry awareness resulting in poor advice and education - and finally it's easy money so who gives a fuck anyway
What I hope is that these kind of threads keep existing, that more people are redirected towards this part of the forum, wiki, killer portfolio or portfolio killer GDC videos, that useful career advice be as easy to find as possible for everyone. But in my opinion there is a great part of the game that has to be played by the students themselves.
I don't think the situation's gonna change anytime soon.
I'm extremely biased and pessimistic on the subject but from my own experience with schools and the testimonials of many other students, I feel like some of these institutions are stuck in their own bubble where basically : - students don't know shit and therefore cannot be right about something - students who try to do research on their own and propose better ideas backed up by a lot of people on the internet (i.e. demo reels?) will be seen as trouble-makers and dangerous elements that can pose a threat to the general happy feeling they're trying hard to keep among the students - teachers are pros and speak the truth, no matter what previous experience or time since they stopped working to teach full time - the lack of quality education leads to poor graduate works which leads to the actual pros not wanting to make connections and partnerships - that previous point closes the endless circle that makes for a lack of industry awareness resulting in poor advice and education - and finally it's easy money so who gives a fuck anyway
What I hope is that these kind of threads keep existing, that more people are redirected towards this part of the forum, wiki, killer portfolio or portfolio killer GDC videos, that useful career advice be as easy to find as possible for everyone. But in my opinion there is a great part of the game that has to be played by the students themselves.
Man, I hear all you complaining about teachers saying to make demo reels. While my teacher is out here telling me I need to learn to program if I want to find a job as a character artist.
I have no programing knowledge which is basically killing my opportunity for any jobs in my own country by the looks of it, I dont even do characters I just went for props/ noob environment artist. But unless you're a programer who does 3D it seems impossible to land a job.
Would you say this correct? To
help summarise this post, if there is no need for a
movie i.e. something does not move or animate stay clear of making a
Showreel.
As for Websites make sure Art Station is
hyperlinked from your webpage (if you need a personal website that is), i.e. you have more than
just 2D, 3D models in your repertoire and want to showcase these artefacts i.e. - Gumroad, Society6, Photography, Flicker,
Personal Dev Projects, Facebook, Youtube, Vimeo, Twitter, Blog and so on.
That pretty much sums it up for me, though I caveat that in the article since I am only focused on character art, applications for that, and how reels aren't ideal. Though, overall, since the industry is becoming more specialized I think it would be great to shift education in that direction...Like mentioned above, having those standards for different disciplines. Maybe an intro course for different fields in the beginning, but in the end character artists shouldn't be bothered putting together a reel.
I read your whole post. I had so many things to say while reading it. In conclusion I can say that I agree with you. I started learning by myself and one of the worst enemies is myself. I wish I had a mentor guide me through what I must learn in order to compete for a spot in the industry. Therefore if I had the financial luxury I would blindly trust a school to teach me "the industry standards". After seeing the end results of the students when graduating those schools, all those projects seemed to me like they can only compete for an indie studio, propably doing little of everything and anxiety levels in maximum. I must agree that demo reels are really outdated, they propably served at a time where sketchfab and apps like that didnt exist. But what can you argue with when the teacher tells you, you have to do this to get a job? Most people trust their teachers and they only copy techniquesr and, polish them- they do not learn or know how to filter information. Whoever can see past that would propably land a job.
I like the fact that you take the time to educate people here and certainly you altered my way of thinking, for this I would be forever grateful. But to my experience this will barely have an influence to 20 people who happened to click this and read your post. Im saying this because I feel you had to vent and try to change the situation that you find your self everyday in. Tbh you dont have to forcefully look at the videos and give critique based on them, instead you could just critique that you want an artstation link.
This article also sparked my interest. I've always been told that studios require portfolios to apply to positions. However, the more that things like Sketchfab gain popularity, it does seem to make reels less relevant. Like some of you have said, we tend to end up scrubbing through them anyways, where as Sketchfab allows us to zoom and rotate how we want for the amount of time that we want.
Making high-quality videos with beautiful effects is an entirely separate skill to have to acquire and put into practice. They look beautiful, but as the article mentions, that time and effort could be put into making your 3D work look its best.
With that being said, my big question would have to be - are the major companies still requiring it? And if so, is this for both animation and game studios? As I continue to build my portfolio, I wonder what the best use of my rime is.
@kmacneil91 This article also sparked my interest. I've always been told that studios require portfolios to apply to positions. However [Sketchfab] ...
- - - - - Personally, having to review Sketchfab viewer links instead of having access to an actual, browsable page with clearly presented screenshots would be an instant red flag, and a serious push in the direction of not hiring the candidate.
Not necessarily because Sketchfab or Artstation viewer pages are bad (as a matter of fact if the work is exceptional it can be enough to get noticed) - but because if someone just throws a model in Sketchfab and calls it a day, it's a good indicator that this person probably doesn't understand the value of presenting one's work in the clearest way possible, in a manner that is the fastest possible to review. He or she may not understand good picture composition, camera angles, the importance of silhouette, and so on. A solid grasp on these topics may not relate directly to the mechanical duties of a modeler, but they do indicate where someone is on their artistic development journey. In other words I personally need to see screenshots, to see if a candidate ... knows how to take good screenshots.
Now if you are talking about Sketchfab/Marmoset Viewer replacing video reels, then why not - I don't think that an interactive view of a model is necessary at all to assess the quality of the work (and it can sometimes even cheapen it), but one thing for sure : having students learn how to export models to SF and TB3 would definitely be a better use of their time and money than asking them to create reels.
Echoing what Pior has said, a portfolio is absolutely necessary when applying for a job and that format should be an easy-to-read layout of images showing a real time model and construction shots. There are a few reasons:
1)Like Pior said, artistically it can show laziness. "IF" you're just tossing a model into the viewer, you're throwing caution to the wind as far as presentation goes. You have little control over how your work is shown and can show a lack of effort in taking your work to completion.
2)As cool as it is, loading the models is still time consuming. In a single case, not so bad...but imagine you have multiple pieces shown in that format, then imagine that you are probably 1 of 100 people doing the same thing. Assuming a reviewer is going to take the time to do that is a little naive.
3)Compression. Viewers are great, but in order to host them properly, you need to compress textures and have basic lighting setups. While that may not be an issue for hand painted models and low-fi type work, I think you will have a hard time showing more complex shaders and realistic work with those limitations. I know first hand Sketchfab lacks in that department and your work is going to suffer.
Sketchfab/Marmo are great tools, and it can be nice to show your work in an interactive way, but it is not required and shouldn't be the standard. And as for replacing demo reels - yes, totally, a student should learn how to present realtime work 100000 times over making a reel. However, it still doesn't beat just a series of images and should be an addition more than a rule.
For the requirement, I can only speak to game companies - and a portfolio is needed. I assume animation companies, film, vfx, etc. still ask for reels as the motion is needed and relevant to that job.
I figured this was for characters. If an environment has a lot of interesting moving sections, I would absolutely love to see a short 30 second video running through it. I wouldn't put all environments in 1 reel but a 30 second video per project is perfect.
There have been plenty of awesome environments that benefit from well placed shots.
I agree with vehicles, characters, props, and weapons though.
One great example that I have shared around the office and everyone LOVED. If you were looking for a first job I would probably trim this down under 45 seconds for easy and quick viewing. http://youtu.be/xSV5Z_fjqbc
The main point is just that pictures comes first, if you then add sketchfab files and a short video under that, go for it. I wouldn`t check it in the first pass of hundreds of applicants but when you trim it down and have 2 - 4 people that you want to get to 1 then you might put in more time to each persons portfolio and videos and sketchfab files might make that decision easier, sadly it can also let someone see flaws that couldn`t be seen in the pictures, so if you do add it make sure it holds up quality wise.
The main point is just that pictures comes first, if you then add sketchfab files and a short video under that, go for it.
Yea I should have clarified my post a little more. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Especially if you're on-site for an interview.
Yeah I wasn't really replying to anyone in particular, just seems to be so many ideas and thoughts that are shared which kinda means the same thing, so just for anyone that still feels insecure on what to prioritize just create a couple of high quality portfolio project with well thought out angles and well presented images, if you then think there is something that could show of you art in an even better light through a video or sketchfab then go for it, put it at the bottom of the page, if someone is really interested in the project I'm sure they might check it out.
I guess the biggest mistake most do with sketchfabs and videos though is that instead of showing your are in a better light then the pictures did you are just presenting your mistakes and your models flaws, so in case it doesn't look better then your pics it might just drag you down.
For the requirement, I can only speak to game companies - and a portfolio is needed. I assume animation companies, film, vfx, etc. still ask for reels as the motion is needed and relevant to that job.
Thanks for the insight, guys. So with that being said - it sounds like the majority here is pretty much on the same page: if you're applying for a gaming position involving characters/assets/environments, video isn't required. May be nice to have if done correctly, but the main focus is on stills.
... I would absolutely love to see a short 30 second video running through it. I wouldn't put all environments in 1 reel but a 30 second video per project is perfect....
I think a well made showreel can really help to put your name out there, regardless if your work is mainly static. If you go out of your way to make a relatively short, well paced showreel with sounds, music, animated effects etc. and actually make it fun to watch then it will be passed around for sure. I remember a popular one was Marek Denko's reel that I'm sure most of you are familiar with just because it's awesome, but it would probably make for a poor demo reel with the cuts, length, no breakdowns, etc.
Having said that I would only every use it as a backup for job hunting. Make the recruiter aware of it, but present an easy, quick to view portfolio first and foremost.
ps. It might feel like you are wasting a lot of time doing editing, vfx, sounds, animating etc. unrelated to your discipline but it will impress people that you put in the extra mile
... I would absolutely love to see a short 30 second video running through it. I wouldn't put all environments in 1 reel but a 30 second video per project is perfect....
I think a well made showreel can really help to put your name out there, regardless if your work is mainly static
I was talking more about a short 30 second video to accompany a project (placed near the bottom of the images). I was fortunate enough to get a feature in in the Unreal Engine Project Showcase on their live stream back in 2014 and it definitely helped play a role in getting my first position in the industry.
doesn't look like this ian pfaff guy works in games nor qualifies for any of gav's original comments. I hope that post wasn't meant as a justification for requiring students to make demo reels.
doesn't look like this ian pfaff guy works in games nor qualifies for bany of gav's original comments. I hope that post wasn't meant as a justification for requiring students to make demo reels.
No it wasn't, did you watch it? I find it hilarious but maybe it's just me.
For any student technical artists out there wondering how to showcase their portfolio, this artist Simon Verstraete breaks his work down super well in seperate ArtStation threads.
Replies
Sadly, it isn't really on us to dictate what gets sent in. We (my team) are active with schools, GDC, online, etc. to help educate but the only the only thing we can do, hiring wise, is spread the message like this and/or decline demo reels as they are presented. Which, is practically what happens, much like an illustration portfolio for a 3d job. Even with auto-decline, though, you still see plenty of portfolios with a youtube / vimeo link - it's a pretty hard trend to ignore. A trend that hasn't changed in over 15 years, despite everything else upgrading.
I'm definitely on board with Marmoset Viewer / Sketchfab as an alternative. Though, there are certainly draw backs if you are trying to show your best work possible (mainly resolution) and load times. Regardless, it's 10x better than 357 useless frames. For VR, I can see that working as an interactive experience in the future...but if I need to do that 100 times in a row, I'll probably be shipped off to an insane asylum :P
I'm extremely biased and pessimistic on the subject but from my own experience with schools and the testimonials of many other students, I feel like some of these institutions are stuck in their own bubble where basically :
- students don't know shit and therefore cannot be right about something
- students who try to do research on their own and propose better ideas backed up by a lot of people on the internet (i.e. demo reels?) will be seen as trouble-makers and dangerous elements that can pose a threat to the general happy feeling they're trying hard to keep among the students
- teachers are pros and speak the truth, no matter what previous experience or time since they stopped working to teach full time
- the lack of quality education leads to poor graduate works which leads to the actual pros not wanting to make connections and partnerships
- that previous point closes the endless circle that makes for a lack of industry awareness resulting in poor advice and education
- and finally it's easy money so who gives a fuck anyway
What I hope is that these kind of threads keep existing, that more people are redirected towards this part of the forum, wiki, killer portfolio or portfolio killer GDC videos, that useful career advice be as easy to find as possible for everyone. But in my opinion there is a great part of the game that has to be played by the students themselves.
I have no programing knowledge which is basically killing my opportunity for any jobs in my own country by the looks of it, I dont even do characters I just went for props/ noob environment artist. But unless you're a programer who does 3D it seems impossible to land a job.
Great topic, seems logical.
Would you say this correct? To help summarise this post, if there is no need for a movie i.e. something does not move or animate stay clear of making a Showreel.
As for Websites make sure Art Station is hyperlinked from your webpage (if you need a personal website that is), i.e. you have more than just 2D, 3D models in your repertoire and want to showcase these artefacts i.e. - Gumroad, Society6, Photography, Flicker, Personal Dev Projects, Facebook, Youtube, Vimeo, Twitter, Blog and so on.
* we need PBR and realtime presentation based folios with art featuring current tech and workflows - be they reel or image or webGL based
* we need relevant content: silhouettes, texture sheets, wireframes in acceptable quality - regardless of the medium
* we need an efficient way to review content - no long winding reels, no disjointed piles of images, no websites with confusing navigation
* we need to review content as technology independent as possible - currently PNG does this best. WegGL, AVI, etc. are still behind
* students should be well rounded, but have a focus and knowledge of currently industry relevant tech and workflows
Showreel No's
Character
Vehicle
Asset/Props
Environment
Showreel Yes
Animation
Particle
Rigging
Showcase a personal dev project
An example of when a showreel helps.
I like the fact that you take the time to educate people here and certainly you altered my way of thinking, for this I would be forever grateful. But to my experience this will barely have an influence to 20 people who happened to click this and read your post. Im saying this because I feel you had to vent and try to change the situation that you find your self everyday in. Tbh you dont have to forcefully look at the videos and give critique based on them, instead you could just critique that you want an artstation link.
"Why I Hate Demo Reels"
...I've got nothing against them per se...that is if done properly!
A 3yr old student submission I'd thought is a great example of what can be achieved supporting a tilt at getting that FITD:
http://www.cgstudentawards.com/student-of-the-year-vfx-anim/alexey-vasilyev
Making high-quality videos with beautiful effects is an entirely separate skill to have to acquire and put into practice. They look beautiful, but as the article mentions, that time and effort could be put into making your 3D work look its best.
With that being said, my big question would have to be - are the major companies still requiring it? And if so, is this for both animation and game studios? As I continue to build my portfolio, I wonder what the best use of my rime is.
This article also sparked my interest. I've always been told that studios require portfolios to apply to positions. However [Sketchfab] ...
- - - - -
Personally, having to review Sketchfab viewer links instead of having access to an actual, browsable page with clearly presented screenshots would be an instant red flag, and a serious push in the direction of not hiring the candidate.
Not necessarily because Sketchfab or Artstation viewer pages are bad (as a matter of fact if the work is exceptional it can be enough to get noticed) - but because if someone just throws a model in Sketchfab and calls it a day, it's a good indicator that this person probably doesn't understand the value of presenting one's work in the clearest way possible, in a manner that is the fastest possible to review. He or she may not understand good picture composition, camera angles, the importance of silhouette, and so on. A solid grasp on these topics may not relate directly to the mechanical duties of a modeler, but they do indicate where someone is on their artistic development journey. In other words I personally need to see screenshots, to see if a candidate ... knows how to take good screenshots.
Now if you are talking about Sketchfab/Marmoset Viewer replacing video reels, then why not - I don't think that an interactive view of a model is necessary at all to assess the quality of the work (and it can sometimes even cheapen it), but one thing for sure : having students learn how to export models to SF and TB3 would definitely be a better use of their time and money than asking them to create reels.
Echoing what Pior has said, a portfolio is absolutely necessary when applying for a job and that format should be an easy-to-read layout of images showing a real time model and construction shots. There are a few reasons:
1)Like Pior said, artistically it can show laziness. "IF" you're just tossing a model into the viewer, you're throwing caution to the wind as far as presentation goes. You have little control over how your work is shown and can show a lack of effort in taking your work to completion.
2)As cool as it is, loading the models is still time consuming. In a single case, not so bad...but imagine you have multiple pieces shown in that format, then imagine that you are probably 1 of 100 people doing the same thing. Assuming a reviewer is going to take the time to do that is a little naive.
3)Compression. Viewers are great, but in order to host them properly, you need to compress textures and have basic lighting setups. While that may not be an issue for hand painted models and low-fi type work, I think you will have a hard time showing more complex shaders and realistic work with those limitations. I know first hand Sketchfab lacks in that department and your work is going to suffer.
Sketchfab/Marmo are great tools, and it can be nice to show your work in an interactive way, but it is not required and shouldn't be the standard. And as for replacing demo reels - yes, totally, a student should learn how to present realtime work 100000 times over making a reel. However, it still doesn't beat just a series of images and should be an addition more than a rule.
For the requirement, I can only speak to game companies - and a portfolio is needed. I assume animation companies, film, vfx, etc. still ask for reels as the motion is needed and relevant to that job.
I figured this was for characters. If an environment has a lot of interesting moving sections, I would absolutely love to see a short 30 second video running through it. I wouldn't put all environments in 1 reel but a 30 second video per project is perfect.
There have been plenty of awesome environments that benefit from well placed shots.
I agree with vehicles, characters, props, and weapons though.
One great example that I have shared around the office and everyone LOVED. If you were looking for a first job I would probably trim this down under 45 seconds for easy and quick viewing.
I guess the biggest mistake most do with sketchfabs and videos though is that instead of showing your are in a better light then the pictures did you are just presenting your mistakes and your models flaws, so in case it doesn't look better then your pics it might just drag you down.
I think a well made showreel can really help to put your name out there, regardless if your work is mainly static. If you go out of your way to make a relatively short, well paced showreel with sounds, music, animated effects etc. and actually make it fun to watch then it will be passed around for sure. I remember a popular one was Marek Denko's reel that I'm sure most of you are familiar with just because it's awesome, but it would probably make for a poor demo reel with the cuts, length, no breakdowns, etc.
Having said that I would only every use it as a backup for job hunting. Make the recruiter aware of it, but present an easy, quick to view portfolio first and foremost.
ps. It might feel like you are wasting a lot of time doing editing, vfx, sounds, animating etc. unrelated to your discipline but it will impress people that you put in the extra mile
Just came across this thread to share with my students to help give them some pointers for their ArtStation.
@radiancef0rge FYI - yes he is a film director, Ian Pfaff, works with Funny or Die, Buzzfeed, College Humor, Nickelodeon, ABC, MTV, TruTV - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2460548/
Website - https://www.ianpfaff.com/
And for anyone interested in his humor he has an updated demo reel! And its sliced gold :)
For any student technical artists out there wondering how to showcase their portfolio, this artist Simon Verstraete breaks his work down super well in seperate ArtStation threads.
https://www.artstation.com/siver
For me this clearly shows how much more useful an ArtStation thread is over a demoreel/showreel.
And for any Character artists wondering how to showcase their work I think Sam Bang does a great job in this thread, it covers so many bases.