Combat Shot

AGoodFella

Hey guys,

So I wanted to tackle an exaggerated combat shot since it's my wekaness. I used the awesome Nier Automata as inspiration/reference.

Here is my rough blocking with a very quick timing pass. Haven't done any constraints stuff yet.

Cam shot - https://syncsketch.com/playground/0490a29d4a054231852e502313361f13#195598

Front view - https://syncsketch.com/playground/20be30d70245437c9f93e5a4b81848f1#195604

side view - https://syncsketch.com/playground/de4a55fe04274f42844ff66e6e29b1fe#195605

Any notes on the poses/timing is appreciated. Cam stuff will come in later since it's difficult to flesh out the cam when the anim is still in blocking. Stuff like the air spin will be extended once I start putting in the breakdowns.

Cheers!

AGoodFella

Here is my reference:

https://syncsketch.com/playground/739e548a1e8541efb1d91a2b475c88c9#195606

AnthonyAnimation

It's a little hard to read at this stage. Don't be afraid to add more poses, especially during fast moves. You have four keys from f1-24 when the action is a small step, but then f176-191 she is covering way more distance and it has the same amount of poses. The timing seems even through the piece and some poses could be stronger. Think about overlap and follow through, build that into these poses. What's leading the action, where is the force being generated, etc.

For example, the first slash. Her body and sword are rotating and the same time. Check out reference and act it out. In order to do an exaggerated style it's nice to understand how the body moves normally, then you punch it up a notch. The slash from f75-85 is too slow. If you're going for something poppy and quick you want a nice antic then really fast action. 

Check this out- http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/features/dev-blog-champion-animation They have some other articles that may be helpful as well.

AGoodFella

Thanks, I don't have any breakdowns so right now, everything seems to be moving at the same time. I'll post an update once I have broken it down a lot more.

Hito

you do realize you're referencing the slow mo version of the attack right? full speed the combo is only about 100 frames start to finish. as it stands your combo is 1/3rd actual speed.

As far as the actual combo goes, I'd reverse the direction of the spin so it's clockwise instead of counter-clockwise, continuing from 193 of the ref clip (177 from side view). Otherwise the momentum change @ 203 (191 from side view) of your ref clip is impossible to reconcile.

AGoodFella

Hito said:

you do realize you're referencing the slow mo version of the attack right? full speed the combo is only about 100 frames start to finish. as it stands your combo is 1/3rd actual speed.

As far as the actual combo goes, I'd reverse the direction of the spin so it's clockwise instead of counter-clockwise, continuing from 193 of the ref clip (177 from side view). Otherwise the momentum change @ 203 (191 from side view) of your ref clip is impossible to reconcile.

Yeah, I sped the slo-motion clip in a separate file but I haven't focused too much on the timing yet.

Good point about the spin. I might have to keep her travelling back after the launch and have her spinning motion still travel in the same direction. 

Hito

cool. I'd make the upward cut @ 178 more vertical so she more or less lands at the same spot instead of some distance back, then do the spin action starting from the landing crouch same way as the ref.

AGoodFella

Hito said:

cool. I'd make the upward cut @ 178 more vertical so she more or less lands at the same spot instead of some distance back, then do the spin action starting from the landing crouch same way as the ref.

Good idea. I think I'm going to remove her flip in the air and instead have her more vertical like you said for her upward strike and then have her body kind of corkscrew around so she's facing the opposite direction. Do a quick compression and then have her spinning motion. 

AGoodFella

Update!

Unfortunately, I don't have much time during the week to work on this so I spend a few hours a night and try to make up for it on the weekends.

So here is where I'm at. It's pretty rough right now, This is going to be mostly on 1's since there are a lot of janky inbetweens. I'm trying to nail down the mechanics and poses. It still needs tons of polish and tweaking. I've barely touched the curves and haven't offset anything yet. I'm going to animate the sword once it's more or less done. Cam stuff will come later as well.

Any notes on the posing, mechanics and timing especially, is much appreciated. I feel some parts could lose a frame or two but it gets really quick and I think it might be too quick for a demo reel. Especially if the person watching it has no idea what's going to happen, things might fly by too quick.

Let me know what you think.

https://syncsketch.com/playground/bf4e7d55e9c74d929c0c8a2882f63ebc#199846

Cheers.

AnthonyAnimation

I'm not sure of your workflow so it's a bit difficult to understand where you're at. You say your on 1's, but still trying to nail down mechanics and poses. Personally, I won't move to 1's until polish unless it's a super fast motion and it's usually something that requires smears. You also say you haven't offset anything- it's good practice to build the overlap and follow-through into the poses. It will help with the sense of weight.

If I were doing this shot I would make my first priority to be clear and appealing poses and worry about timing later.

A prop is an extension of the character and therefor accentuates movements. It's very important to get nice arcs and a clear silhouette. You'll have to keep an eye on poses where the sword is flat to the camera because it disappears. 

Overall it seems like you have an idea of the type of action you want, which is good. The thing that's sticking out to me right now is the sword feels light and there is little force being generated by the character. Try acting it out and really pay attention to your feet and hips. Most action and weight generates from the root. Watch a baseball player swing a bat. Swinging a sword has slightly different intentions, but you really feel where the action is starting and where it is going.

Hito

the pacing feels good so far, and the "flow" feels good too.

I'd include the sword's actions in the blockout, it's too integral to the action and it's hard to read what's happening when the sword stays in the same hand all the time. If one doesn't know the sword is being thrown and caught, they would be totally confused. For example the motion around 40 reads like a half-hearted thrust rather than a flourish before she catches the sword on the return. same at around 120, it reads as a bad parry or deflection rather than catching the spinning sword.

the camera isn't helping either. Lisa starts on screen left, and progress to screen right before the big jump. That builds up expectation that screen right is forward. But then when she jumps up, she faces screen left for a long time, then moves screen left again, which reads has moving backwards. The counterclock spin on reinforces that impression. For now I'd just keep it in a 3/4 static camera so the overall action is clearly visible. Editing and camera can wait till after polish stage.

The jump up to start of spin is very long at 70+ frames. I can only assume she's jumping up really really high, but she stays the same size on screen, so it doesn't read that way. I'd cut 165 to 200. As the camera catches up over ~15 frames, Lisa would be at ~200 in her action.

the spin in the air is very slow at 8 frames per 360 degrees. Full speed in Nier Automata is 4 frames per 360.

The last cut the landing feels very disorienting as well since there's no ground or anything else  in the shot to act as frame of reference. The time of cut breaks continuity since there's no indication Lisa is starting to fall toward the ground or even slowing down before cut to the landing. She could have landed immediately after the spin, or she could have done a great deal many things before landing, there's no way to tell.

The landing pose is the worst kind of "3point landing" really. Trinity is half way into the pose before she even touches the ground, and that's made it into your action as well. I'd at least keep the legs together until the feet makes contact with the ground, then push one leg out as part of the compress movement. Maintain at least one foot directly beneath the body weight.

AGoodFella

Another update, busy with mocap stuff so haven't had a ton of time. Looking to wrap this up soon.

The cam is rough, there are some janky inbetweens and some polish stuff that needs to be done on 1's. Not too concerned with this stuff yet. Need some notes on poses/timing. 

Any way I can make some poses stronger and make the timing even snappier.

https://syncsketch.com/playground/0f7cac59fd374650b35a7c9416d26221#210169

Thanks!

tiagosol

hey @AGoodFella, pretty cool fighting move. I think there are some parts that you can delete to make the movemet more clear and follow a smoother flow. I like all the motions is a very good exercise just check out those anticipations and inbetweens to make it look really nice keep it up. I added some notes 

AGoodFella

@tiagosol - Thanks dude!