Answered: Suite freezes trying to create custom material during 3DO icon generation

muppetmeat

Hi, I'm having an issue with creating custom materials in DDO. I import my albedo and a normal to go with it (a honeycomb pattern for battle-tech type armor lenses), and the material seems to show up fine as I add the two layers in. However, when when I go try to save it with its own file name, it restarts 3DO, and freezes when it tries to make the material sphere icon.

The custom material folder seems to have ALL the proper information except for the icons. The xml files for the materials are there as are the psb files..... there is just no icon. As you can see, it worked once before (but I was playing around and the material was just a camo pattern albedo).

Is there a workaround for this or a suggestion to fix it?

Synaesthesia

>Is there a workaround for this or a suggestion to fix it? 

Unfortunately, not without more information. Issues like this are highly dependent upon your computer specifications, PS version, Suite version, etc. Giving us this info will allow us to help.

muppetmeat

Thank you for the amazingly fast response!!! Wow!!

I should note this does NOT happen during my own smart material generation, only custom materials generation (which leaves me NO way to import my own normal maps into the program for materials).

Does it matter that the albedo is a bmp and the normal is a png?

3DO simple freezes with no way to exit it unless I enter task manager and manually shut both it and photoshop down.

Software:
Windows 10
Photoshop CS6
Quixel 2.3

Hardware:
AMD FX-8320 3.5GHz
16GB RAM
AMD Radeon RX480 8GB

Unrelated:
I'm also trying to make a custom masking pattern material, and while I see folders for Custom masks in the user data directory, I see no way to generate specific custom masks. What am I missing?

Synaesthesia

I'd suggest using the same file type as your normal map. BMP is generally not all that great for the work we do. TGA and PNG are perfect replacements for it in this particular regard. Let me know if that helps clear this up.

Generating custom masks is done via the DynaMask window. Here's a tutorial I wrote that includes creating custom masks.

muppetmeat

Using two png files did not work. The first image is everything prior to clicking 'create material'


This second image is the locked up disaster that the Suite becomes when I try to save the material - artifact lines and all.
I have to shut everything down via the task manager to get anything to work.

This results in what you see in the first image way up top - the data, but not the material mesh used as the icon.

As for the custom masks. I meant is there a way I can import a mask and have it show up on the materials list so I don't have to import it each and every single instance I need it during a large project?

Also, I read your tutorial, it was very helpful. When you say 'you must apply paint mask within photoshop' to make it permanent (since unless I didn't read right, I can't actually import it into the mask database), you mean right click on the layer and 'apply layer mask' to the solid color? Please clarify.


Thank you for your excellent responses so far.

Synaesthesia

Are you using a laptop, by any chance? If you are, ensure that your GPU is being used for 3DO2.exe. If you aren't, make sure you're on the latest drivers available for your card.

Regarding masking, you'll want to create a Smart Material with your desired masking properties - this video tutorial should help. A Smart Material carries over the XML-based mask edits you've made using DynaMask allowing you to use the same type of mask across different projects.

What I meant by the DynaMask editing in PS is hitting the Accept Mask button after you've painted a custom mask using DynaMask. If you edit the mask in PS only and then open DynaMask afterward, the saved XML data will overwrite the mask edits you made. They must be made from the DynaMask interface.

muppetmeat

I'm using a desktop, so it's using the GPU as far as I know. I'll check on my drivers. Does the icon generation use any components of photoshop? Would it possibly be worth trying to reinstall PS CS6?

Synaesthesia

It could be due to your install, but I'd try running PS as admin once, close it, and then run the Suite and try again to see if that helps.

muppetmeat

No good. I reinstalled PS CS6, updated drivers, and reinstalled Quixel, it still freezes when it tries to create the icons for the sphere, even when only asked to create with with only an albedo layer. (see below)

This is a major feature that remains unavailable and is more or less absolutely required moving forward, particularly when I have piles and piles of texture sets I want to import. There is absolutely nothing I can do as a work-around?

I'd even be happy manually putting in the 2D albedo swatches in place of the sphere to give them a place holder in the material browser if that's what it takes. I've got no other way to import these materials short of asking a kind heartd Quixel user to do it for me and send me the generated files.

Synaesthesia

Is there any chance I could get you to try using Photoshop CC 2015.5 or 2017 to test this?

muppetmeat

I can select and move the PS window and bring it to above 3DO if that helps diagnose anything. I can also do anything in PS... until I force close 3DO. At which point PS closes down, but I STILL have to end the PS task manually (as it remains active) if this happens.

muppetmeat

Let me read up on the license. You can get me to put on a ballerina outfit and sing "I'm a little teapot" if it gets custom material generation working.

BTW, you have been AMAZING with the response time. We get this figured out and I'm buying a megascan pack as a thank you.

Synaesthesia

Haha, no worries. I take a lot of pride in the Suite and I want to ensure that you're working with it like I'm able to.

Have you been able to use 2015 or 2017? If nothing else I want to see if this issue persists in those versions. I am starting to lean toward the ATI card being the problem here, however, since I know ATI cards have had problems in the past with 3DO to varying degrees - most notably while baking textures.

muppetmeat

It's still doing it.

I'm using CC 2017, suite 2.3.1, and the above computer specs.


What is frustrating is that it absolutely worked 100% once. But just once. As you can see by this shot. The FSD PA Camo is the working one. The files without the corresponding icon (DCG PA Camo) are the ones that were created by the above attempt:



Is there something else that a broken attempt could have affected and then broken permanently? Like a database registry of materials or something? (I really don't know what I'm talking about here.)

muppetmeat

I also have these files kind of just sitting here in this directory.... it looks like the remains of a failed attempt, but I could be wrong:

************


OK, so I tried something. I copied and renamed the FSD PA Camo icons and put them in as stand-ins for the DCG PA Camo and it showed up in the material browser (with the FSD icons of course).





BUT, when I put it into a project, it comes out just fine and as intended.



So what we've got here is that Quixel (for materials that only have albedo at least) is properly constructing the custom material, and even the psb files, but the icon generation is stalling out somewhere.

Synaesthesia

Have you been overwriting the original file? Try renaming it if you haven't, and perhaps clean out the custom folder to see if that does anything different for you.

Beyond this, could I see a video of this happening?

muppetmeat

I haven't been able to overwrite it, it tells me the file is locked. I usually end up deleting it between tries, or at the very least, name it something else.

Update: Cleaned it out, still happened. No idea why or how it worked once and then never again. This is getting discouraging.

Will work on getting a video.

muppetmeat

Here's a video of the problem in .flv

I didn't record sound, but suffice to say, at the end of the video when I hover over the close icons for the suite, they don't respond and I must close it with task manager. The video shows pretty much everything. I even put in a shot of the video card hardware and drivers.

https://app.box.com/s/wdd6yb3qspoxda9f5t34ni5cry6k9bie

muppetmeat

I actually hope the video will reveal it is something really stupid I'm doing and everything will be fine when you un-stupid me.

Please let me know if you need ANY more info at all.

Synaesthesia

The best I can say here is that it's probably some incompatibility with ATI drivers that we'd need to investigate further. The only workaround I currently can think of would be to hit the render button in 3DO and save thumbnails out manually.

muppetmeat

I can do that I suppose, I was on the verge of making a photoshop action to manually shrink down the albedo swatches to make suitable icons.

This has been present for more than one driver set, and as I said before, worked just fine once.

muppetmeat

Well, that seems to work at least. Even with multiple matching maps I can chug the render through a photoshop batch and generate my own icons. Your outstanding customer support has convinced me to stick with your product despite this and use the issue as an excuse to convince my wife I need a new computer.

I have a procedural question about importing. I have a bajillion matched sets of seamless texture maps that I want to import now that I have the workaround figured out. Many of them have VERY strong normal and height maps. (See below for an example). If all the maps are at their full as-imported strength, it actually looks kind of ridiculous. I must turn the height map down to .02 in the imported maps window to get it to look nice.

My question is this: Does decreasing the signal in the imported maps window result in a decreased signal for the final custom imported material or do I need to "turn down" these maps prior to import? If I need to decrease the signal, I'd be using photoshop batch, what is the proper way to do it? Based on opacity of the layer over neutral gray, a decrease in the exposure, or simply turn down the brightness?

Big height map, specular, and normal signals, looking the way it is as-imported:
This is how I like it, notice signals are decreased:

Synaesthesia

Well, thank you! I'm glad you're happy. If you weren't, I wouldn't be doing my job correctly.

Adjusting sliders in 3DO doesn't affect the generated material - they're built from input textures, not the preview window. If you want to adjust the strength or colors of your imported textures in the material import window, you can click on the box next to each input and adjust it using that method.

Regarding the ATI card issue, could I get you to send your original post with what we've discussed here to support@quixel.se? That way we can get a ticket put in and hopefully knock this one out ASAP.

muppetmeat

I'm willing to help however I can. I get a lot of artifact on the quixel baked object space normals too, don't know if it's related. I'm beginning to think it's something wrong with my actual card, bc I can't be the only one running your suite on this particular model.

One last question about importing. There aren't any controls for normal and AO (to turn down the signal). If I find that once again the signal for the normal or AO is way off center versus what Quixel was expecting, can I edit the image layer directly in photoshop manually? In the below case, I would put a neutral flat normal behind this image, change the original to overlay, and play with the opacity to turn down the signal.

Would this change be reflected in the final imported material?

EDIT/UPDATE: In an effort to answer my own question, I made a custom material and figured I'd examine it after it froze and I shut it down.

This time it made the icons.... I'm so confused....

Then I tried again, with the exact same files, and it froze. (Test Sphere and Test Sphere 2). Dragon Scale is my own icon work-around.

I'm going to have to open that ticket.

Synaesthesia

I would adjust the intensity prior to importing, but you should be able to do it within the confines of the import window. DDO should recognize it and work with it accordingly.

Dracon85

Same Issue here... very similar specs. Software:
Windows 10 pro
Photoshop CS5
Quixel 2.3 also tried 2.3.1

Hardware:
AMD Ryzen 5 1600X 3.6GHz
16GB RAM
Radeon RX580

Workaround: Copy icons from a working material, paste and rename to material name the .xml and photoshop files are (after Quixel freezes) Could modify images, but not necessary. If you do not have a material to copy from I suppose you could create icon images with the specs needed. Material works but preview is wrong.

Bothersome, look forward to possible fixes in future updates. Seems like a compatibility issue with the new card I got though.