A question on filtering feedback.
polycounter lvl 3
So let me preface this by saying i'm on the opposite end of the spectrum - usually people always advise "Learn to take critiques and listen to them!". I've always been good about posting for feedback, i don't feel like i take feedback personally, the standard stuff. In a few of my recent projects i've noticed that my issue lies in defending my 'vision' of what my project needs to be. I'm pretty shaky in my artistic confidence so i end up just doing what everyone tells me then my project's trajectory gets all screwy.
For example - Say in my head i'm thinking of a dark gloomy transylvanian castle with spooky stuff all around. If someone steps in and tells me the to push the mood of dark vampire lair by adding lava or chains, and ends up suggesting things that push towards a Doom-styled notion of this mood with themes of Hell or demons. In my head, i'm trying to keep things to a Dark Souls feel.
This is an entirely fictitious scenario. I'm not making such a project. BUT.
We see that they're 50/50 - pushing the mood would be beneficial, but not quite in the way they wanted. Do you catch my drift? The difficulty then lies in - okay. So they took time out of their day to give me feedback, they could have spent that on themselves. To me this is a huge favor coming from them. So to...not use what they said seems almost..rude? What's the etiquette for that? I feel like it hurts people's feelings when you ask for help then post updates that don't seem to utilize their feedback.
In a situation such as this, would the appropriate thing to do would be to simply be straightforward? Tell them what parts of their feedback you choose to utilize or not? Not say anything? Perhaps i'm overthinking this. But tone online/written is very hard to read and my friends help me out pretty consistently and i would like to avoid making people feel like i've blown them off. I've not been in a studio setting yet so my only interactions with other artists is online in settings such as Polycount or Facebook.
For example - Say in my head i'm thinking of a dark gloomy transylvanian castle with spooky stuff all around. If someone steps in and tells me the to push the mood of dark vampire lair by adding lava or chains, and ends up suggesting things that push towards a Doom-styled notion of this mood with themes of Hell or demons. In my head, i'm trying to keep things to a Dark Souls feel.
This is an entirely fictitious scenario. I'm not making such a project. BUT.
We see that they're 50/50 - pushing the mood would be beneficial, but not quite in the way they wanted. Do you catch my drift? The difficulty then lies in - okay. So they took time out of their day to give me feedback, they could have spent that on themselves. To me this is a huge favor coming from them. So to...not use what they said seems almost..rude? What's the etiquette for that? I feel like it hurts people's feelings when you ask for help then post updates that don't seem to utilize their feedback.
In a situation such as this, would the appropriate thing to do would be to simply be straightforward? Tell them what parts of their feedback you choose to utilize or not? Not say anything? Perhaps i'm overthinking this. But tone online/written is very hard to read and my friends help me out pretty consistently and i would like to avoid making people feel like i've blown them off. I've not been in a studio setting yet so my only interactions with other artists is online in settings such as Polycount or Facebook.
Replies
"Tell them what parts of their feedback you choose to utilize or not?" this is absolutely fine. You likely don't want to discourage them from sharing advice or ideas in the future so thank them for their suggestion and boom diggity, back to arting.
That also is a fantastic point! I'll certainly work on that.
Not every critique is valid, regardless of who it is from. If the crit is something technical (it can be measured/tested) that deserves a response — if you're not going to make any change, you should be able to explain why not. If it's a subjective change like in your example, it's completely up to you. Does the suggested change make it better or merely different? You need to be open to other ideas being better than your own, but you don't want to sacrifice the fun of doing your own thing. That's just paid work without the pay.
As TeriyakiStyle points out it's good to acknowledge the crits even if you don't utilise them; sometimes I'll see threads with lots of crits and comments but no responses, which can be discouraging. Would I be wasting my time giving further crits? Really you should only be concerned if you find yourself ignoring valid crits and giving excuses, when really it's more about the amount of rework involved or whatever. Sometimes you need to call something done and move on. Just try to be aware if you're deceiving yourself to avoid fixing things. Otherwise don't worry about it, have fun, make cool stuff.
Oh and re: communication, that's a really good point because there are sometimes threads where crits get brushed aside when they're not relevant to the end goal, which might be obvious to the artist, but they didn't make that clear to begin with. Sometimes the people giving crits only looked at the pictures and ignored the words. The best you can do is say what you're going for and hope people read it.
What does this have to do with your situation? Whether it is a group, a few individuals at random or a single person offering a critique, all you have to do is say without pretense, "Thank you, I appreciate your feedback." and leave it at that. Don't set yourself up to have to address anything specific. Give yourself the space to consider their input.
If they are way offtrack and you sense they might have something to offer after clarification then provide some clarification. Otherwise take advantage of an opportunity for people to describe how they feel about your work without destroying their naivete. They don't need to know your intent or the background details of the project. The things people perceive when they know the least about the project's objective reveal whether you have succeeded or failed up to that point.
*Comment A - I think the color pallet should use more warm tones and a saturated red to make it feel more evil -This is pretty subjective and you could respond as TeriyakiStyle suggested.
*Comment B - That saddle / harness setup wouldn't function well because reasons a, b, c... -This probably a more objective observation that you'd want to really consider incorporating into or revising in the design.
*Comment C -Horses are dumb and I hate them, make an armored elephant! -Totally subjective and could be ignored (but a polite response would be good etiquette I suppose).
*These aren't actual critiques I'd make, just some examples. I like purple, I have little knowledge of saddle/harness design and horses are alright (but maybe not as cool a elephants).
1. I don't solicit proper feedback from just anyone, generally its only a select few people who are vastly more experienced and able. It's generally never my peers, usually someone further along whose work I respect. In fact 99% of the time its a couple of people I've closely developed with over the last decade. Basically, find someone who's great at what you want to do and gets your vision, and can help you get there. Randoms aren't going to help so much as send you down random paths.
2. We don't generally talk about what creative decisions I make so much as how well I executed what I tried to, and why I tried to do what I did.
So I never really get things like 'why don't you add X' or 'try X colour pallette'. instead it's 'why did you do X' and 'why did you use the colours you did' and as a result, I'm able to investigate what I am failing at as soon as possible. Don't let people try to impose their creativity on yours, they should be helping you develop yours, and so they shouldn't really be steering you but rather questioning you so that you can stop trying random things, and start making confident decisions.
3. Regarding someone spending the time to give me a proper bit of feedback - I simply DO what they've suggested, but in a very small isolated test case so I can evaluate the suggestion without veering off course for a week (and actually get it done). It's a quick turnaround time and then we can discuss, and I've learned and tried something new, and they've got the respect of me actually trying what they suggest.
None of them will do the work alongside you. None of them have skin in the game. Your project is your own.
Act in your own interests. Take what critiques you find useful, let the rest go. Leave a "thanks" at most. Try to keep in contact with anyone who consistently gives valuable crits. Leave others behind
Really great replies and insight! I understand now that it really does just come down to communication, introspection and a bit of risk taking.
Except this one.
You take that shit back right now
One thing to keep in mind, whether or not you implement someone's critique on a project, it's probably all at least worth considering. It might not be what you needed for your current project, but it might be very relevant to the next, or one three months from now. It might be that someone gives you advice that really annoys you, or you can't quite wrap your head around until later on in your artistic career.
Some of the best critique I've ever received didn't wind up being valuable to me until quite a bit of time had passed. Sometimes when I got it, it just annoyed me and I'd argue against it, other times it just made no sense and I couldn't reason why they'd think whatever it was they were advising. ...but then months, or even years later, I'd encounter something and think back on what was said...and it would totally make sense. And I found it very helpful.
Working in a studio is pretty similar, maybe there is more pressure to be nice and maintain decorum, because people are right in front of you and you can't just drop bombs and disappear. You can pick who shows up in your facebook feed but you can't pick who shows up to work, unless you have some leverage over the hiring process... even then it can be hard to shuffle the deck...
Of course a lot of people don't want to be a raging jerk-ass, especially when they are new to a job, so they stay quite and things that should be said, sometimes aren't. That hurts the project and stunts growth, so don't be quite but do be polite and respectful.
How you give critique will help influence how you receive it. Working in a studio means you receive but you also give and working on giving helps you become better at receiving.
Know your audience and worry less about what they will think of you.
Some people thrive with direct and blunt criticism, others might shy away or become combative. Can they handle a withering critique in a group setting or should you hit them up with your thoughts outside of that? Either way you should worry less about what people will think about you and worry more about how you can reach them in a way that they are likely to take action on it.
Critique is like Halloween.
When you ask for candy from strangers, you're going to get a lot of weird shit. You thank them all and move on.
Advice is freely tossed in anyone bag that is open, BUT not all advice holds the same value.
Sometimes you get a coupon for dental floss, some times you get a full sized candy bar.
It doesn't need to be consumed in one night. You can save it for later, pass it on to other people or just toss it out.
Wait until you are off their poach before you toss it out.
It can be smart to look over your candy and make sure it's not loaded full of poison.
Some assholes run around TP'ing houses and smashing pumpkins, they really aren't part of the process.
At some point you will be on the other side of the door, giving instead of receiving.