2-5 years Experiance? From where?

Y-NOT486

Hi everyone, I thought I'd raise an age old question and hopefully find some answers.

I am a 3D modeler for both Environment and Prop Art, I graduated with a Bachelor's Degree in Game Art and Design From AICAOC in the spring of 2015. From the moment the portfolio show had ended I've constantly applied to every studio on the west coast and have yet to even get as far an interview before receiving a pre-written rejection letter saying they are considering more qualified candidates. One thing I've noticed is almost every position notes a requirement of 2-5 years of experience, meaning an unexperienced applicant like me is not even being considered?

So I ask, where on Earth are people finding that 2-5 years of experience if they're not hirable without it? Clearly the industry isn't cloning their artists in labs to refill their ranks as people retire or move on to other studios, so how do they maintain a workforce of only experienced individuals without creating any?

beefaroni

Portfolio, not experience.

If you're not getting through your portfolio is unfortunately not quite there.

Here is a portfolio from a friend that I would consider "entry-level". After he finished his sci-fi scene he was able to land a position at a great studio.
https://www.artstation.com/artist/richardrude

Y-NOT486

Wow, That's some impressive work. If that's considered entry level, then I might have a few harsh words for my Art school because my portfolio (the one they approved based on "industry standards") doesn't have a prayer.

http://www.amerola3d.com/

JordanN

My personal opinion but I don't think it's always the school's fault.  For reasons because unless every student is producing the same work, the school can't be held accountable. 

Perhaps there should be more transparency when the word entry-level comes up, it doesn't mean all college level art is the same. Art jobs aren't the same as other jobs where a degree demonstrates knowledge, because you can make any art without going to school.

When these jobs put down "3-5 years experience"  I think what it really means is the estimated time it actually takes to produce content on that level. Especially when I've done some sleuthing, the art you see being made in studios aren't done in a day or week. They mostly take months to years. 

So it makes sense they want someone who can create art that's highly ambitious and polished, and that takes a long time to do.

samnwck

Y-NOT486 said:

Wow, That's some impressive work. If that's considered entry level, then I might have a few harsh words for my Art school because my portfolio (the one they approved based on "industry standards") doesn't have a prayer.

http://www.amerola3d.com/

Well based on what I see on your portfolio I think your main issue is texturing. Most of your pieces really lack depth, variance, and just overall seem a bit flat. I actually really liked the Sci-fi environment you put together. With more dramatic lighting, maybe updating a few pieces to have just a bit more visual impact (The chairs jump out as looking very flat geometry wise) and just updating your tiling textures a bit more up to current industry standards I think that that one could look really good and could be a good anchor for your portfolio and could be treated as a baseline for you on how to approach future projects. 

MILA

I'm also a student. Here's both mine and some of my classmates portfolios for comparisons sake:

http://michaeltranart.com/
http://robintran.com/
http://tonytranart.com/
http://camillaspanberg.com/
http://mhansenart.com/
http://oceanenasstrom.com/

Eric Chadwick

JordanN said:

...
When these jobs put down "3-5 years experience"  I think what it really means is the estimated time it actually takes to produce content on that level.
...

Partly true. But really what this means is the studio is looking for someone who understands how the development process works. 

By experiencing the complete game-making process, you get an understanding of how artists' tasks and responsibilities change based on where they are in the overall project timeline.

There are also very important team communication skills gained through development that you can't get in most school settings.

A good interviewer can figure out if an applicant has what it takes to learn these things on the job. Some people are not flexible enough, others are not good enough communicators, etc. 

But a lot of people are just plain shit at interviewing. 

Elithenia

Eric Chadwick said:

There are also very important team communication skills gained through development that you can't get in most school settings.

A good interviewer can figure out if an applicant has what it takes to learn these things on the job. Some people are not flexible enough, others are not good enough communicators, etc. 

But a lot of people are just plain shit at interviewing. 

I agree that there is a lot of things that cannot be taught/learned in a school setting. A lot can be done at an interview level, however I think the biggest problem is to get to an interview for someone who has not been in the industry before.

Eric Chadwick

Elithenia said:

I agree that there is a lot of things that cannot be taught/learned in a school setting. A lot can be done at an interview level, however I think the biggest problem is to get to an interview for someone who has not been in the industry before.

Getting an interview is 90% due to portfolio quality. Every time. We will always choose a hot portfolio over a middling portfolio with experience. The interview is where we drill down into problem-solving skills, skillset, personality, etc. But without the portfolio they never get to that point. Art is fairly egalitarian in this. 

sacboi

Whilst I agree with the general sentiment here. Though from my experience freelancing a bit for a more than salubrious paying gig I've just jagged recently, I'd also throw into the mix an element of chance. Whereas particular stuff I had uploaded on various WIP boards got eyeballed by someone of note who was intrigued enough to shoot off an email querying specifics...one thing led to another, quite out of the blue 'Bob's yer uncle' got the job! 

Funny part about it, I'd forgotten their very existence. I've been out of the "game" for while so currently getting myself back up to speed, even running what will be, as it turns out a long running 3D workflow thread here on PC for good measure. Now the gist of it is OP, is to hone your skillset/s, polish *the* portfolio too the in'th degree. That above linked entry level sample is a great illustration of what it takes in most cases, however a word of caution I'll leave you with - no point being a "prodigy" if your attitude lies on the sucky side (...not that I'm levelling an accusation in any way shape or form, just a generic point of reference so too speak)

Because no one likes working with a dick in this industry as with most others I might add, which essentially is a team sport after all.

Cheers.

EDIT:

Since my interests span both sides of the CGI fence, here's a student (film VFX) reel for an OT comparison, I've used motivationally as a personalised aspirational goal for myself of where I need to be:

http://www.cgstudentawards.com/student-of-the-year-vfx-anim/alexey-vasilyev

Brian "Panda" Choi

For me, it was the four games I worked on during university, including internships here and there.
That's where my 2 -5 years experience were generated from.

Y-NOT486

 I very much appreciate the number of responses, examples and advice. I most definitely want to expand my portfolio and push it to the level of quality the industry demands. Unfortunately in my case time is not in my favor, my portfolio in its current state was only after two years working on and off. Since graduation I've (like many I'm sure) have had to work non game related jobs full time just to pay the bills and it's hours I'm not spending on my art. Heck, my sci-fi environment alone took me 8 months to make, only having maybe two or three hours a week if at all and it's hardly decent quality. I had hoped after graduation I would be able to land a position so I can work for a living and make art at the same time,  not only gaining professional experience, but having projects to work on to further refine my skills. I know what I need to do, but I'm worried it could take me nearly a decade to achieve it since I spend way too much time on unrelated work.

CrackRockSteady

I think, as others have already mentioned, that your portfolio is not quite at the level it needs to be for an entry-level position.  Unfortunately getting better is largely a matter of putting in the time to research and practice the skills you need.

I don't know the specifics of your situation but a couple of hours per week strikes me as an unusually small amount of time to be willing/able to devote to making 3d art happen as a career.  If this is something you really want, you will need to figure out a way to budget your time more efficiently and put in more hours learning and practicing.

Y-NOT486

CrackRockSteady said:

I think, as others have already mentioned, that your portfolio is not quite at the level it needs to be for an entry-level position.  Unfortunately getting better is largely a matter of putting in the time to research and practice the skills you need.

I don't know the specifics of your situation but a couple of hours per week strikes me as an unusually small amount of time to be willing/able to devote to making 3d art happen as a career.  If this is something you really want, you will need to figure out a way to budget your time more efficiently and put in more hours learning and practicing.

You'll get no argument from me on that, it's been a source of major frustration when whole weeks go by and I'm not able to make anything new for my portfolio.

Y-NOT486

Elithenia said:

Eric Chadwick said:

There are also very important team communication skills gained through development that you can't get in most school settings.

A good interviewer can figure out if an applicant has what it takes to learn these things on the job. Some people are not flexible enough, others are not good enough communicators, etc. 

But a lot of people are just plain shit at interviewing. 

I agree that there is a lot of things that cannot be taught/learned in a school setting. A lot can be done at an interview level, however I think the biggest problem is to get to an interview for someone who has not been in the industry before.

Amen to that, Of the over 50 studios I've applied to, I never even got to the interview stage with one. As for my school, I actually do have a serious issue to discuss with them because recently their status as a "degree mill" has become public knowledge and might have left me in the bracket of applicants who aren't even considered. I should also point out that my portfolio may not be all that great now, it was actually a lot worse by entry-level standards two years ago.

Eric Chadwick

No employer in the game dev industry cares which school you went to. Not even slightly. Not at all. It never enters the decision making process.

Your portfolio carries the entire weight.

Look at professionals, and get that quality in your pieces. Period. You don't need their volume. Just the same quality.

http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Portfolio#Examples

Elithenia

Eric Chadwick said:

No employer in the game dev industry cares which school you went to. Not even slightly. Not at all. It never enters the decision making process.

Your portfolio carries the entire weight.

So it would be better to go to a lesser known school and maybe put the money towards tutorials and software to learn that instead of those highly priced schools where you pay for the prestige then? And just focus on learning and getting better, and create a killer portfolio? 

Eric Chadwick

The path is up to you.

I've seen great candidates from top ivy league schools, and I've seen great ones who are entirely self-taught.

http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Game_Industry#Education

Elithenia

I think that mainly comes down to the student then instead of the school they may attend  
What I can feel though is that it is hard finding good references as to what would be a good 'entry' level portfolio. As it is a live document in the sense that it changes when they update it, what I got shown during my own degree, isn't up to standards, or would be considered entry level now. 

Thank you for the link! 

Eric Chadwick

For a clear guidance on what constitutes a good entry-level portfolio, check out the Portfolio page I linked above.