ZbrushCore - extended review

thechocokirby

Hey all! I recently bought zbrushcore and am really excited to do some quicker modeling! Since it's still pretty new there doesn't seem to be a lot of resources/ discussions about people running into issues for me to look up.
So I'm going to use this thread to document workarounds I've found, workarounds I'm looking for, differences in workflow from main Zbrush and issues I've come across. Please add your own, etc.
Hope it helps!

thechocokirby

I'll start! Three things I was looking for before I got it were: custom brushes, zremesher and ... there was one other thing... It'll come to me.
Anyway, I wasn't sure if my rig could handle a dynameshed... mesh going into maya for manual retopoing (there's no zremesher which was sad, but I like retopo and am pretty quick at it, so doing it manually is probably better. Furthermore it can later be used for animation). It can handle a heavy mesh, although it runs slower, but it'll be fine.
For the custom brushes, I knew I REALLY wanted the orb cracks brush ( I NEED IT!!) and was able to emulate it pretty well just based on the alpha, which seems to be it's most important component.
I also use the snakehook brush instead of the move brush, but I haven't been able to emulate that yet... I don't think I'll be able to.

thechocokirby

I'm also seeing a strange issue where the program messages won't go away when I left click on them, only right clicking... I don't know what that's about.

thechocokirby

Here's another one. There doesn't seem to be an option for saving your object as a ztool, so I guess we're going to be saving as a zbrush project now. (although you can export out to many formats including obj, ma, mb and so on.)

thechocokirby

You can't split subtools by polygroup, but you can still auto group>ctrl shift click to select>mask>split by masked points. So it's the equivalent of taking the stairs. You'll get there, but you'll be tired...

thechocokirby

I REALLY wanted the orb cracks brush ( I NEED IT!!) and was able to emulate it pretty well just based on the alpha, which seems to be it's most important component.

Ah, ok, the alpha didn't actually work. I'll look more into it tomorrow.

thechocokirby

Ah, ok, the alpha didn't actually work. I'll look more into it tomorrow.

Looks like the alpha psd file is just a grayscale image. The one I exported from zbrush was black on white, I inverted it and now it works fine. Still not quite the cracks brush, but it will do.

kanga

thechocokirby said:

Here's another one. There doesn't seem to be an option for saving your object as a ztool, so I guess we're going to be saving as a zbrush project now. (although you can export out to many formats including obj, ma, mb and so on.)

So you cant save anything over 5Gig? Even with history off, no morphs ect, files seem to get over 5Gig pretty quick, saving in the tool format is way lower. Core can't do that?

thechocokirby

kanga said:

thechocokirby said:

Here's another one. There doesn't seem to be an option for saving your object as a ztool, so I guess we're going to be saving as a zbrush project now. (although you can export out to many formats including obj, ma, mb and so on.)

So you cant save anything over 5Gig? Even with history off, no morphs ect, files seem to get over 5Gig pretty quick, saving in the tool format is way lower. Core can't do that?

I haven't come across any size limits (there is a poly limit if I'm not mistaken, but I think it's pretty generous) but the option isn't there in the menu to save as a tool. This is what it looks like:


I get the feeling something pixologic is going with is trying to phase out the little idiosyncrasies that have persisted in the software. This seems to be going along those lines. I see no disadvantage, other than the discomfort of change.

thechocokirby

Hey! I found the documentation!
Probably should have gotten that first huh? Anyway, here it is in case anyone's interested.
http://docs.pixologic.com/zbrushcore/

kanga

Hmm maybe I am misunderstanding the situation a bit. So you can save a project but not a tool. Since I cant open projects once they get over 5 gig (can you change that) and I cant save a tool (which is pretty reliable in ZB) core would be unusable for me and many others. Except for light pieces what would it be good for?

Edited

Revel

"Important note: Only content created in ZBrushCore can be opened by ZBrushCore. ZBrushCore will not open ZBrush files. ZBrush 4R8 will be able to open ZBrushCore files."

Well there you go, ZCore can't open any ZB file no matter the file size. I really didn't see any positive thing why people will use ZCore though (for those who used to work with ZB but run on low budget for personal use at home), other then just to doodle in 3d, but then again, you already have Sculptris (RIP) or Blender for free.

thechocokirby

kanga said:

Hmm maybe I am misunderstanding the situation a bit. So you can save a project but not a tool. Since I cant open projects once they get over 5 gig (can you change that) and I cant save a tool (which is pretty reliable in ZB) core would be unusable for me and many others. Except for light pieces what would it be good for? Seems many other ZB users have the same problem with ZB.

How come you can't open projects over 5Gbs? Is that just a well known ZB bug? You can't save tools, but you can export out some different formats, such as obj, ma, and some others (goZ?) I haven't had time yet to nail down a workflow, but my plan is to do the rough building in ZbrushCore (hereafter ZBC), take it to maya for manual retopo, then back to ZBC for finaling (if necessary). But yes, one of the reasons I started the thread was to be able to collect these insights so people looking into it can have more resources to make a decision whether ZBC is of any use to them.

Revel said:

 I really didn't see any positive thing why people will use ZCore though (for those who used to work with ZB but run on low budget for personal use at home), other then just to doodle in 3d, but then again, you already have Sculptris (RIP) or Blender for free.

I hated Sculptris and recently tried sculpting with Blender, but was left pretty disappointed. So I got ZBC. For me, starting in ZBC will be many times faster than modeling only in Maya, allowing me to do a larger volume of work. Modeling is all I want it for though, AND I don't plan to make any money off it, so the price is right. If you were getting it for freelance for non-3d printing stuff, then it probably would not be a good option.

thechocokirby

Workflow Note:

When going from Maya to ZBC (or from some other 3D package) make sure your sizes are what you want them to be. Resizing will have to be done subtool by subtool in ZBC. Exporting back to Maya could be an option for resizing, but you can only export one subtool at a time, so that won't exactly be faster. You could combine all your subtools and take them back to maya, but then you'd have to separate them again in ZBC... again, pretty tedious.
To be sure it's a good size, just open one of the sample files with a dynamesh sphere or something, export that to obj, open in maya and use as your guide.

claydough

thechocokirby said:

Hey! I found the documentation!
Probably should have gotten that first huh? Anyway, here it is in case anyone's interested.
http://docs.pixologic.com/zbrushcore/

All the new zClassroom stuff looks like a Core concentration...
Have u checked them out yet?
Particularly enjoy watching Drust work:
http://pixologic.com/zclassroom/lesson/conceptual-sculpting

thechocokirby

oh yeah, that's a pretty good one for somebody just getting started.

thechocokirby

workflow note:
There's no "fill holes" button, so you have to fill a hole by dynameshing.

thechocokirby

Ok, so here's my current workflow:

check the size in maya, and center object (if starting in Maya) (import polyball if needed)

export an obj from maya (or export each geo shell as a separate obj)

import the obj(s) into zbc

if it's a single obj, polygroup auto, select each shell, mask, split masked (can take a while if there's a lot of pieces)

do your sculpting

collapse all subtools

export to .ma

open in maya

retopo

export back out as in step 2

All steps are tentative depending on the desired outcome. I sculpted a little skull as a test. If anyone is interested in screenshots I can post them (or a more detailed overview of the workflow)

thechocokirby

I've been sculpting pretty regularly and getting more comfortable with the limited tools. The only thing I still really miss is the snakehook tool, which I always used instead of move.

However, an issue I keep running into which I don't remember having in Zbrush is that I'll go to zoom in, and it looks like it's doing what I expect, but when I release the button, it'll track instead or just end up somewhere totally wrong that was not where I wanted the camera to focus. Maybe I'm releasing the key too soon, but again, I don't remember having this issue before. It really gets in my way.

thechocokirby

Here's the first thing I've finished using ZBC. Just a reworking of an old model. I'm working on another one now. I'd also like to retopo that one I just finished, but maybe later.

thechocokirby

Here's the next thing I've worked on. I've also streamlined a part of the process if going to ZBC from Maya by writing a script that exports all the selected geo as individual .objs.  It's much faster to hit import a bunch of times than to try to separate all the parts inside ZBC.
I can share that as well if anyone is interested.

mickeyvpn

Hi @thechocokirby

Can you describe how you fill holes in ZBC? I'm still struggling with this operation.

thechocokirby

mickeyvpn said:

Hi @thechocokirby

Can you describe how you fill holes in ZBC? I'm still struggling with this operation.

As far as I've found dynameshing is the only way

Bluestemos

Not trying to highjack the thread, but I feel this is relevant. An issue I keep facing with ZbrushCore is that randomly Core cannot open or overwrite files that were made in Core. Even today I spent roughly 40 minutes working on a sculpt, regularly saving the project. Then, at one point when I tried to save the project I couldn't, and instead got this prompt: 



This happens worryingly often, and apparently there's nothing that could be done about it. There is a workaround though, which is to save the project with another name and then delete the old save. But the thing is, sometimes Core writes these faulty saves when you exit the program, meaning that you cannot open the project the next time you start up Core and that your work is gone. I'm not sure how many people have experienced this issue, but I do know I'm not the only one.

I got ZbCore in January, since then this has happened to me way over 20 times. When you add this issue to the instability of the program I would definitely not recommend getting ZbrushCore. It just doesn't feel like a finished product, which is weird since it should essentially be Zbrush with some removed features.

thechocokirby

Bluestemos said:

Not trying to highjack the thread, but 

interesting, I have not come across this issue myself, nor any other "instability" (whatever that might be). From working for many years in maya though, I've developed the habit of versioning up almost every time I save. I also don't like using the lightbox or quicksaves, unless I really need to ( but I doubt it affects much.) 
Have you used the zbrush trial before installing ZBC? I've found that with most programs installing a full version after having a trial usually gives annoying issues.

Bluestemos

thechocokirby said:

Have you used the zbrush trial before installing ZBC? I've found that with most programs installing a full version after having a trial usually gives annoying issues.

As a matter of fact, yes. I've never seen other programs experience issues after switching to a full version from a trial, though. This is definitely a first. I had another one of my projects get corrupted today as well.

As for the instability - I'm talking about things like:

• 50/50 chance of ZbCore crashing on startup, and a guaranteed crash if I click anywhere while it's booting up
• Sometimes ZbCore crashes when it autosaves. Not too common, but it still happens. Someone suggested that it'd be an issue with Core hogging up more and more RAM with each autosave, but I haven't noticed my RAM (16 Gb) running out while using the tool
• Using dynamesh causes ZbCore to crash very often, even on very simple models and low values

I also got in touch with Pixologic support about all the issues a few days ago, but I haven't heard anything from them yet.

EDIT: Alright, update - I got in touch with the guys at Pixologic. They said that if anyone experiences the issue that prevents them from opening a project because ZbCore claims it was made with the full Zbrush, they should send the project over to them through a support ticket and they'll recover it. 

They're aware of the issue and they're working on an update for ZbCore, which is good news.

leeballard

So I would have to concur here. First is that you can not import anything you have made before .Deal killer number one I was not aware of. You also cant use anything from 4R7. This would have been a deal killer for me right away as well. Third there is really no hard surface modeling that can be done in Core. This would have also been a deal killer for me.There are some very limited workarounds but only for VERY basic objects It is crashing a lot and as of 12-12-17 there is no solution for not being able to open some saved files created in even your own copy of core. Last night I tried to re-open a file saved min before and got error message.Still can not open it today and have a ticket into Pixologic from the AM. Imagine if it was important. Can you wait two days to open a file?
Not sure how Bluestemos has not heard of "instability" This is when the software crashes often or cant open files it saved and this is a major issue if you have invested time into your model. Sending it to Pixoligic is not a solution its a time consuming crutch.Save your money. You will regret you spent money here.
Bummer on this.

CreativeSheep

Will Pixologic improve the U.I in zBrush 5 stay tuned. 

Fuiosg

They haven't even updated it since release, right? Dodged a bullet there.

It seems obvious to me what they're doing, release a standalone dinky package like this toward the end of ZB4's lifetime. No doubt 5 will be a new beast altogether; so Core will sit in limbo not being updated, like Sculptris, except people paid for it.

Revel

Yeah was lucky my card rejected the transaction when I'm about the pre-order the Core way back and already got my full ZB copy now. But then again, you can upgrade anytime to the full version with discounted price so I guess it's not that bad to anyone who purchased ZBCore.

My opinion is that ZBCore was never meant to be ZB alternative, but more to an introductory stage to people who interested in ZB but won't commit that much money early on. Pixo definitely know this and hope you guys like what ZB has to offer and eventually upgrade to the full ZB version. But for people that already used to ZB n all it's feature/ workflow, ZBCore feels very limiting in term of functionality, almost crippled.

Sculptris on the other hand is totally different thing, it's just a generic sculpting app that sadly get abandoned..

Bluestemos

Fuiosg said:

They haven't even updated it since release, right? Dodged a bullet there.

Yeah. When I contacted Pixologic 5 months ago they said they were working on an update, but there's been no news about it since.

thechocokirby

In spite of my original intent it looks like the thread was totally derailed into discussing technical issues and basically asking "why would you not buy the better one?"
Soon, I'll gather my resources and delete the thread (if I can). Thanks for all your input!