[UE4] Palace Ballroom Scene

Neoekamp

MOST RECENT UPDATE (02/12/2018):

http://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2615204/#Comment_2615204

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ORIGINAL POST:

[sorry, rush thread, desc. c/p'd from Artstation]

A scene I've been working on for quite some time. Still a bit rough and bare, but hopefully becomes something spectacular when I'm finished.

Part of a personal game project I've been working on for a couple years, this is meant to be the main room/hub of the location.

Things still to do: 
*Drapery for the archways 
*Radial pattern for the main floor 
*replace materials(the walls are still standard UE ones) 
*Misc Props(Wall lights, chairs, doorways,ect) 
*Properly modeled pilasters instead of those blocky placeholders(and attempt to square-ify those composite capitals...) 
*Do something fun with the space under the main stairs. A service passage snakes around the perimeter of the first floor, entered from the right and ending on the left with stairs down to a (creepy) utility cellar, and a servant's bedroom right below the main stairs. 
*Fix and optimize the lightmaps, as you can see there's a few (horrid!) lighting errors 
*...a chandelier?

Modelling done in Blender, presented in Unreal

Model view of the Composite Capital prop (After all that work they're barely visible in the scene, and I'll cry if nobody gets to see it ;[ )

model

Also a chair that's barely in the scene atm!

model

More screens on my ArtStation!

Ashervisalis

Looks cool to me. My beef is that the tower looks so low poly compared to everything else. The silhouette and the arches are so low poly my eyes keep looking at them. Also, and this might just be me, it kind of looks weird that the gold on top of the pillars has pieces that stick out. It looks like those corners should be helping support the roof, but they're not underneath the support beams. The rest looks really great.

FreneticPonies

Neat, though the lighting is a bit, dark? How many bounces do you have setup (they don't cost much, just set it to like a twenty) and do you have any lightmapping ambient occlusion? Always found that to be a tempting, but ugly option that's not longer needed, just overdarkens corners and the whole image without adding much.

Neoekamp

Ashervisalis said:

Looks cool to me. My beef is that the tower looks so low poly compared to everything else. The silhouette and the arches are so low poly my eyes keep looking at them. Also, and this might just be me, it kind of looks weird that the gold on top of the pillars has pieces that stick out. It looks like those corners should be helping support the roof, but they're not underneath the support beams. The rest looks really great.

Thank you for the reply and critique!  Yeah, I guess the tower (cupola?) is pretty low-poly, I actually never expected to get so close to it until I thought the camera shot was neat lol.  That is definitely seeing a redo eventually.

Not sure what you mean on the gold capitals sticking out, it's pretty close to how the volutes would jut out in real life


Don't know if I got it perfect, and I definitely wouldn't build this room in real-life

Ashervisalis

Yeah now that you post the image of the reference I understand. Never seen that in real life!

Neoekamp

Tiny update!

Been working on the drapery





Pretty chunky right now (and dat conic flat tassle doe)...and the velvet material is pretty simple but will likely be played with in the future

Also only now just realized you get better metallic reflections when you change the lights to Stationary

Speaking of lights, next up I will be modelling candle sconces, so those lights aren't just coming from nowhere!

Neoekamp

model
A light source!  A lit bit hi-poly for in-game use still but will work on making a reduced version and LODs for Unreal

Neoekamp

Well...it's certainly been a while.  It's come a long way since I last posted, but still quite a few steps from being "finished".

The lighting is drastically different now, and I made a radial tile pattern for the floor center


(also some fun dust particles and volumetric light effects!)



Pedimented doorway for the top door, didn't take too long, just crammed stuff I already made together (I think the top is a bit blocky though...)




Made a pilaster version of the composite capital and column models. For the capital I basically just soft-selected and mashed it into as much of a rectangular shape as I could.  Crude, but I'm quite ok with the results!



Made a grimy decal for the parts touching the floor, pretty simple and I'm not terribly used to Substance Designer yet.  Also made a skirting board model so the transition between floor and wall didn't look so dang primitive



Also for fun, instead of just working on this scene, I made a map of the rest of the manor, since this is supposed to be for a game
https://twitter.com/NeoEkamp/status/901097364664066053



So...what's left?  Besides fixing up some mapping and modelling errors, and tweaking the lighting, I want to finish up the rest of the doors and door frames (they're all gonna be the same model), and a skylight for the portal above the stairs.

I did want to make a material for the bricking of the wall, as I'm using a UE4 preset right now...but since I'm still sorta new at SD, and the material blends in fine already, I'm just going to leave it and save that effort for another project.

I did also think of making a crystal/candle chandelier that would hopefully tie the center of the room together, but I think it'll be fine without it.  Would also take too much time and effort to look for an acceptable reference and I really just want this thing wrapped up lol.

Anyway, Happy Halloween!

Meloncov

You definitely have some very nice modeling going on, but there's something definitely off on your gold material. I'm not sure exactly what's off, but it's reading as very plasticity to me. If you haven't already, check out the PBR values that Quixel published, which include one for gold. It might also be a matter of the reflection capture setup in-engine.

Neoekamp

Meloncov said:

You definitely have some very nice modeling going on, but there's something definitely off on your gold material. I'm not sure exactly what's off, but it's reading as very plasticity to me. If you haven't already, check out the PBR values that Quixel published, which include one for gold. It might also be a matter of the reflection capture setup in-engine.

Sorry I took so long to respond!  You may be right, the gold color value was slightly different than the value I found in a PBR chart.  It was a Substance Painter preset but I tweaked it anyway.

I also may have overdone the cavity dirt in the albedo, so I made that a little lighter and less overbearing.  Some of the metallic values on the dirt and dust was odd too, as it was using in-between values probably making the highlights a little strange, so I tried to minimize that.

Old:


New:


Do you think this looks a bit better?  I didn't change the reflection capture yet, since I thought the current setup helps the shapes be more noticeable from far away

Meloncov

Yeah, that's definitely a big step in the right direction.

Neoekamp

Continuing to work on sequencing the flythrough for demo reel \o/


https://giant.gfycat.com/YearlyWelldocumentedIguana.webm

Jack M.

That flythrough is very fast and is moving on multiple axis. This is really not good for showing off an environment that you actually want your audience to see.

Keep the cinematography basic. Dolly on one axis at a time, go slow and steady, use dof to your advantage, and change your camera fov to a more lens-like value such as 35-45.

Ged

good work so far, the one thing that stands out to me as odd is the shapes on the balustrade/railing, they look stretched in some places and perhaps the gaps between the shapes are too large. They almost look like alpha cards that have been stretched around the shapes too much if you know what I mean. I prefered the top of the pillar looking a little more metallic than your latest shot. Well done on those!

Neoekamp

Jack M. said:

That flythrough is very fast and is moving on multiple axis. This is really not good for showing off an environment that you actually want your audience to see.

Keep the cinematography basic. Dolly on one axis at a time, go slow and steady, use dof to your advantage, and change your camera fov to a more lens-like value such as 35-45.

heheh, quite, possible, I opted for a few...interesting shots along with some ones that more encompassed the scene.  I might need to slow down parts as well, yeah

Ged said:

good work so far, the one thing that stands out to me as odd is the shapes on the balustrade/railing, they look stretched in some places and perhaps the gaps between the shapes are too large. They almost look like alpha cards that have been stretched around the shapes too much if you know what I mean. I prefered the top of the pillar looking a little more metallic than your latest shot. Well done on those!

Thanks!  You aren't wrong, looking at my reference they're a bit too wide apart and stretched a bit, the stretchiness due to being deformed along a spine using a Blueprint.  I also might have thought 4 would be too crowded for in between the columns so I opted for 3 balusters, but it's been a long time and I forgot my reasoning lol

Neoekamp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgLo2NXTSmk

So here's the WIP flythrough/showcase I had planned out.  Of course I'm thinking of changing some things to both the scene and video with your alls'es critiques, but I'll see how you like so far : D

I wanted the second half to be mini-showcases for the individual props with annotated links to Sketchfab, or that's the idea anyway lol

Neoekamp

Well that was embarassing...he's the proper link

ChristenLA

Loving the zbrush work! Very attractive!
I will say the lighting isn't doing much for the scene right now.
https://abload.de/img/highresscreenshot0000nwsuz.png
Since this would be one of the main shots for your environment, it's important to get composition right. Currently, the models are good, but the focal point is all over the place. If it was unlit, it would obviously be the stairs with a nice symmetrical lead-up point but.... with the light the way it is your eyes move first to the two solid white columns on the outside, then to the pure white ceiling above the stairs and the weird bright shadowing on the stairs themselves, and then finally to the brass railings. Considering the beautiful modeling and detail work, it's a tragedy to have the viewer's eye being drawn to the blank white areas instead.
I'd suggest moving the sun's position and playing with upping the bounce lighting or/and adding candelabra or other forms of light to brighten up the room.
Can't wait to see more! You're doing really good work.

shabba

Personal opinion hear, but I've heard it echoed by many over the years. 

Flythroughs aren't very effective, and always feel uncomfortable/awkward. If you choose a a nice composition/location instead and just do a very slow pan left to right from the same location, I think it will be more effective. 

- maybe consider breaking up the pure gold railings a bit /w other materials. Gold being so malleable I dont think it would be very successful at being a bracing/safety/support. Excellent for decorative accents. But maybe not in this application. I'd expect you'd be hard pressed to find that in a real life reference.

Neoekamp

ChristenLA said:

Loving the zbrush work! Very attractive!
I will say the lighting isn't doing much for the scene right now.
https://abload.de/img/highresscreenshot0000nwsuz.png
Since this would be one of the main shots for your environment, it's important to get composition right. Currently, the models are good, but the focal point is all over the place. If it was unlit, it would obviously be the stairs with a nice symmetrical lead-up point but.... with the light the way it is your eyes move first to the two solid white columns on the outside, then to the pure white ceiling above the stairs and the weird bright shadowing on the stairs themselves, and then finally to the brass railings. Considering the beautiful modeling and detail work, it's a tragedy to have the viewer's eye being drawn to the blank white areas instead.
I'd suggest moving the sun's position and playing with upping the bounce lighting or/and adding candelabra or other forms of light to brighten up the room.
Can't wait to see more! You're doing really good work.

Hello and thank you!  Oh boy I certainly see your point...the focus on the two pillar bases on the side is kinda glaring.  I can rotate the sun a a little bit without messing it up too much elsewhere, or even adjust the FOV to take them out of the shot completely.  I kinda liked the idea of the dome windows making a circular light on top of the stairs but maybe it's looking weird in it's current position.

I'll see if I can make the rest of the room brighter, I suppose that would make the direct sunlight a bit less distracting, tho I'm hoping I don't loose the gloominess a bit too much

shabba said:

Personal opinion hear, but I've heard it echoed by many over the years. 

Flythroughs aren't very effective, and always feel uncomfortable/awkward. If you choose a a nice composition/location instead and just do a very slow pan left to right from the same location, I think it will be more effective. 

- maybe consider breaking up the pure gold railings a bit /w other materials. Gold being so malleable I dont think it would be very successful at being a bracing/safety/support. Excellent for decorative accents. But maybe not in this application. I'd expect you'd be hard pressed to find that in a real life reference.

Hi thanks!  So maybe just do a few slow pans and composition shots then, yeah I think that might be a bit better

I still had fun sequencing camera movement in this tho so maybe I'll have two videos then?

And hmm I don't think something like those balusters would be pure gold, but more wrought iron or some sturdy metal, just covered in a thin layer of gold for decoration.  Here's the exact reference btw:

They're broken up with supports in the real version so yeah I wouldn't necessarily trust my railings with my life lol

Neoekamp

EDIT:  Redid pic with even more tweaks

Tweaked the lighting and GI a bit, so it's a bit brighter overall and adjusted the sunlight so the side pillars arent bathed in a distracting white light.

I thought of taking the side pillars out of the shot entirely but that just made the shot too cramped-looking

Adjusted the balustrades so they're a bit less stretched-looking

Also added the lights to the pillars, not %100 sure I'm into them yet

Odow

I think one of your biggest issue now is how dull the white painted wall and roof are compare to the reste. you have high detail on you ground, super flat white roof, i'm not even sure you uv them look like a flat white shader on eveything.

in 3D, super clean rarely works has they fall short.

The easier way to fix it for the wall is to at least put some decorative trim, as for the roof, in palace like that they are really often cover with ornement or painting.

Neoekamp

Odow said:

I think one of your biggest issue now is how dull the white painted wall and roof are compare to the reste. you have high detail on you ground, super flat white roof, i'm not even sure you uv them look like a flat white shader on eveything.

in 3D, super clean rarely works has they fall short.

The easier way to fix it for the wall is to at least put some decorative trim, as for the roof, in palace like that they are really often cover with ornement or painting.

I pondered adding more detail to the trim early on, like it is in the reference, but I was afraid it would be make it too noisy.  But now that you say so, I'm sorta reconsidering that

I like the idea of having a sky painted over the dome, since yeah, it's kinda just a white mass that can barely be noticed as a done right now, so yeah, I think I will experiment with that, thank you

Neoekamp

Roughed this out in a few hours @Odow

Really liking this idea

Neoekamp

https://neoekamp.artstation.com/projects/8zxAE

https://neoekamp.artstation.com/projects/1yW48

yay I published

I divided it into two showcases, one of the overall scene, one for the individual props.

If anyone has any considerations for the portfolio layout, I am open.

In the meantime I think I'm going to begin on a new project (or two), thank you everyone for your critiques and suggestions!