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Game Industry Vs Family Life!? Help!

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Haytch polycounter lvl 10
Hey guys, So I've been working remote for a game studio for 2 years, as an Environment Artist, Due to lack of funding they can't afford to keep that many people anymore, I have a wife who has 3 children from an ex husband, I'm 25, shes 31, I'm quite family orientated & old fashioned in the sense, I need to earn and provide, After getting into the industry (even indie) i never wanted to go back to a normal job again, Recently I applied for a few AAA studios, Was turned down by most of them (as expected), Surprisingly enough, 2 of the ones who turned me down, came back to me and asked me to go in for an interview, one is in Horsham (UK), I live in Ashford, Kent, (UK) So it's about an hour and a half drive from me, the other is in Newcastle, Both are pretty big studios, I'm more leaning towards Newcastle because I love the games they make, My wife just doesn't want to move, I've had to turn down Big opportunities from studios in Germany & Sweden because of relocation, not a lot of studios allow for remote work, or work remote but come in once or twice a week, Now that being said, I can understand both sides, my wife has her kids in school, two are teens and 1 is in primary school, shes about a year into a great job as a teacher at school working with kids with special needs, that actually triggered her to tell me something was up with me, so after a bit of a fight with the NHS i decided to go private, Found out I had ADHD, which explained why i always got bored in jobs, couldn't hold a job for more than 1 year, Another reason I can understand her side.

 But I love Game art, I love creating, learning, improving, inspiring etc etc, I've turned down some pretty big studios, and my portfolio sucks, I'm completely self taught & have no qualifications, This was my chance to get in, first I turned down an amazing project which everyone was talking about, because I would have had to move, she wouldn't. Now, I thought I was secure in the Indie studio I'm working at, Pay is a lot better than AAA, AAA you're looking to earn about £1200 - £1800 a month BEFORE Tax (at my level), Indie (depending on the studio) I was earning £2600+ Per month, which put us in a great place, Now I'm just lost and confused, I feel like nothing I do will be good enough, I can't work at a AAA studio because there's none near me and my wife won't move, anyway, back to the security, I thought I was secure at the Indie studio, working remote, things where going good, So I asked my wife if we could have one more kid, the final kid, Litteraly, about 2 - 3 days after finding out she was pregnant I had another offer from a AAA studio, One I turned down originally because I didn't want to be a lighting artist, my boss found out & said 'listen, I need to tell you because its getting bad, we've kept you on even after most of the other artists had been let go, we're running low on funding & we're onto the coding aspect, the game is done it just needs to be fine tuned by coders, so we can't keep you anymore, IF we get more funding though we don't want to loose you'. So after this mad roller coaster of a year, I'd gone from doing amazingly good, both career & family wise, baby on the way, To feeling like a complete and utter IDIOT because I (ME!!!) talked my wife into having one more kid because we were secure & stable, what makes it even worse is, I can't take an offer in another country, or cross country & go without her, because she didn't want anymore kids, she got pregnant for me, it took me years of talking her into it( even took me years to talk her into letting me get a dog!), so Now i'm at a crossroads, I can't leave her to be pregnant on her own, I can't leave her to work in another country & Just visit or come back on weekends, I just don't know what to do!, I guess the game industry is a little trickier than I thought, there's no room for families, if you don't move you can't accept the job!, there's hundreds of more artists out there, what makes you so special that a studio who has never had a remote worker would allow you to work remote?. none.

So I have a job interview Friday (with a studio that's about an hour or two's drive)
Another one tomorrow (which is a 6 hours drive, which i really shouldn't even be entertaining because she won't move)

But There's no indie studios about at the moment?!.

Sorry to blabber on, I needed someone to vent to, you guys are all artists and you should hear this 1. because I don't want you guys falling into this pit i'm in, and 2. because i just don't know... don't even know what to say. 

Thanks for letting me vent, If you guys and gals have any suggestions I'm happy to listen!

I'll put my portfolio up here (no idea why, if you guys see anything near me in kent be sure to give em it!)
https://www.artstation.com/artist/haytch

This is probably my final cry to stay an artist, if not I guess i'll end up working at mcdonalds or kfc!, how bad is that!

Replies

  • Alemja
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    Alemja hero character
    I don't know how much this will help because it is tough to hear. It sounds like one (or both) of you will have to suck up your pride, compromise, and do any of the following:
    • Your wife moves with you, so you can have the studio gig
    • You are going to have to look at getting another job if you are looking for stability, especially if you want to stay in the area and have a kid on the way.
    • Your wife is going to have to get a job shortly after she has the kid so she can help support the family and so you can stay in game dev.

    Best of luck, it's not going to be easy, but you and your wife are going to have to have some long serious talks about it.

  • JacqueChoi
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    JacqueChoi polycounter
    Here's a few things I took from your story:

    Every studio can be shut down. You could be working for the biggest and top selling studio of all time, and there's a really good chance they might close shop in under a year. This is the reality of our medium, and of the times.

    The chances of you being at 1 studio for the rest of your career is slim to none. That barely exist in any other industry anywhere in the world outside of the public sector. Spending 40 years at 1 company was something our parents did, but the average employee in the games industry stays at any single studio for an average of 2.5 years.

    Moving from country to country city to city chasing work used to be normal a decade ago. Now there are what I would call 'clusters'.

    Montreal, Seattle, LA, are places where there are several game studios, and plenty of jobs and industries that can use similar 3D skills (VFX, Simulations, VizDev). If you're not in a cluster, you will likely have to move around for work. This makes those types of cities a bit more ideal for artists to have families.




    If you want to make it as a freelancer, you'll need to become, faster, and more renown.
    Freelance does become an option to those who are dedicated enough to pursue it, but you'll need a lot more practice and experience to get to a level where you can reliably do it.


  • Synaesthesia
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    Synaesthesia polycounter
    Simdev is one of the most stable industries for 3D artists. If you want to raise a family, it's significantly easier in that business.
  • Haytch
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    Haytch polycounter lvl 10
    Yeah, I had this chat with my wife, It didn't go down well, she said i was more 'happy' at my old job driving a forklift in a warehouse, i pointed out to her i feel depressed and ashamed and a failure at the moment and she thought i was 'happy' so she shouldn't try and get my old job back or tell me to go for things like that again, I've been pushing my limits EVERY day since i was about 20 , before that i did a little bit every now and again, but i can't see myself doing anything else, i don't want to, I'll probably have to go freelance or take the studio offer closer to home, even if it is only for a few years, i also explained this to my wife that chances of staying in a studio is slim to none, most artists do 1 game and move to another studio nowadays, There are some studios out there I'm just not at their standard yet, I saw a job advertisement the other day for gameloft which was 'remote' which would have been perfect, but I'm not at that standard yet, my main concern is paying the bills & improving my skills, lately i've resulted in creating tutorials & assets to sell online to gain income whilst I improve etc, it just kills me that i've worked so hard for the good part of 6 years on improving my artistic skills, from nothing to environments, even today I learn, question, rinse & repeat what i've done and improve, heck, my portfolio originally started by me taking print screens & resizing them in photoshop, now I do 4K engine renders with lighting set up or marmoset or other bits, I just don't want to have wasted 6 years working hard to make a difference and become someone who people can look at and say 'hey, that is an awesome piece, it looks so realistic' or 'I loved that game! i loved the environment, interaction, the whole world just looked so insane!', instead of me being 50 - 60 years old, looking back with a shotgun in my mouth saying 'WHAT THE FUCK DID I DO.'

    again, I'm not moaning or even doing the pride thing (moaning a little) but I don't want to provide for my family by selling bugers at mcdonalds, I don't want to provide a 'little' for my family by being a machine operator/forklift driver, I want to earn enough money to treat my wife, go on holidays, enjoy life, AS of course we all do!, i'm not saying I'm different, better or deserve anything more than you guys, i'm just saying, how i feel, Thank you guys for talking to me, I know this is stupid I just had nowhere else to turn to, I feel kind of depressed right now because if i talk to normal people who aren't artists like us and spend 27 hours a day working on portfolio, personal project or work related stuff, they just say 'leave her' or 'make her go' or 'how inconsiderate' when the reality of the truth is it isn't that simple, I came into her life knowing she had 3 kids, and choosing to take them on, I spent 2 years being a complete deadbeat, jumping from job to job, being on benefits, and it sucked, I was at a low in my life, didn't know anything & didn't want to know anything, whereas now, I can see what i can achieve, a legacy i can pass to my kids, My mother & father never raised me so I didn't have 'guidance' Never knew what I wanted to do, heck, I still don't, But i know when it comes to game art, I feel at home, I can talk to people, I can be creative, do what I want & people will either say, that's shit! or WOW, didn't know you could do that.
  • RyanB
    Haytch said:
    This is probably my final cry to stay an artist, if not I guess i'll end up working at mcdonalds or kfc!, how bad is that!
    So the only work you are willing to do is game artist or fast food worker?




  • Haytch
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    Haytch polycounter lvl 10
    lol!. to be quite honest I don't know what I'll do, Trying to say really that I feel like any job other an artists job is pretty much at that class :\ not looking down on people, its like once you get a taste you don't want to leave it, if you work in the industry, you love it, don't want to go back. that's what I meant :)
  • Haytch
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    Haytch polycounter lvl 10
    Simdev is one of the most stable industries for 3D artists. If you want to raise a family, it's significantly easier in that business.

    What is simdev?
  • Synaesthesia
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    Synaesthesia polycounter
    Simulation development. There's various aspects of the industry: military, medical, aviation, etc. There's overlap between them as well.
  • RyanB
    Haytch said:
    lol!. to be quite honest I don't know what I'll do, Trying to say really that I feel like any job other an artists job is pretty much at that class :\ not looking down on people, its like once you get a taste you don't want to leave it, if you work in the industry, you love it, don't want to go back. that's what I meant :)
    So what else have you done aside from game artist or fast food?
  • Ruz
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    Ruz insane polycounter
    That's quite hard on you. I don't want to interfere in your relationship, but maybe you have to really tell her how important it is to you.
    Can you maybe work away for the 5 days then come back weekends? That's an option for a lot of couples.
    Quite a drive to Newcastle if it's the studio I am thinking of, then  could be ok( though I haven't worked there)
    tough on family life though, kids will really miss you.
    I think your work is perfectly fine, try and be a bit more postive:) least you are getting interviews and stuff.

    There are plenty of companies down south, maybe just persevere - get a crappy job for the mean time, then just keep applying. Don't just limit yourself to 2 companies, which is kind of obvious i guess.
    I really would not give up though. shame to waste the talent you have if you love it that much.
    There are also other areas of 3d you could get in to not just games, so you don't have to go back to being a forklift driver( fork that)

    Try not to make it a 'missus and kids vs the job' situation though, you really have to talk it out more - simple as
  • Haytch
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    Haytch polycounter lvl 10
    RyanB said:
    Haytch said:
    lol!. to be quite honest I don't know what I'll do, Trying to say really that I feel like any job other an artists job is pretty much at that class :\ not looking down on people, its like once you get a taste you don't want to leave it, if you work in the industry, you love it, don't want to go back. that's what I meant :)
    So what else have you done aside from game artist or fast food?
    Sales rep, Machine operator at a print factory, more Sales, Forklift Driver
  • Haytch
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    Haytch polycounter lvl 10
    Ruz said:
    That's quite hard on you. I don't want to interfere in your relationship, but maybe you have to really tell her how important it is to you.
    Can you maybe work away for the 5 days then come back weekends? That's an option for a lot of couples.
    Quite a drive to Newcastle if it's the studio I am thinking of, then  could be ok( though I haven't worked there)
    tough on family life though, kids will really miss you.
    I think your work is perfectly fine, try and be a bit more postive:) least you are getting interviews and stuff.

    There are plenty of companies down south, maybe just persevere - get a crappy job for the mean time, then just keep applying. Don't just limit yourself to 2 companies, which is kind of obvious i guess.
    I really would not give up though. shame to waste the talent you have if you love it that much.
    There are also other areas of 3d you could get in to not just games, so you don't have to go back to being a forklift driver( fork that)

    Try not to make it a 'missus and kids vs the job' situation though, you really have to talk it out more - simple as
    will take your advice, thanks man appreciate it :)
  • Haytch
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    Haytch polycounter lvl 10
    Simulation development. There's various aspects of the industry: military, medical, aviation, etc. There's overlap between them as well.
    I'm nowhere near that level at the moment, my art isn't that realistic, plus they wouldn't take me & I'd also have no idea where to look
  • NoRank
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    NoRank polycounter lvl 3
    Family is something really complicated... Actually, relationships are.

    Well, just don't put all your frustrations on your kids because that will suck for them. This is a choice you made, and i'm pretty sure you will find a good way to overcome this.

    If you can't move to some place where game studios are (montreal, LA, etc...) then you should just work with other areas that involve 3d or something like that. 

    Can't really give you good advices thought. Best of luck to you o/
  • Ruz
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    Ruz insane polycounter
    will take your advice, thanks man appreciate it

    no probs, hope thing work out for you

  • Dot
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    Dot polycounter lvl 5
    Haytch said:
    Simulation development. There's various aspects of the industry: military, medical, aviation, etc. There's overlap between them as well.
    I'm nowhere near that level at the moment, my art isn't that realistic, plus they wouldn't take me & I'd also have no idea where to look
    There are a few sim companies in the Kent area, make sure you check gamedevmap too for other options around you.  I´m not quite sure why you are selling yourself low here when you have applied to AAA! Best of luck!
  • TheMadArtist
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    TheMadArtist polycounter lvl 12
    Haytch said:
    Simulation development. There's various aspects of the industry: military, medical, aviation, etc. There's overlap between them as well.
    I'm nowhere near that level at the moment, my art isn't that realistic, plus they wouldn't take me & I'd also have no idea where to look
    That's not really the attitude to have..

    I've worked in simulation for both military and oil and gas for over 10 years now, and have hired a lot of people right out of school. Took a look at your portfolio, it's strong enough for places I've been at. (Psst, also don't call yourself a junior environmental artist on your site. Just say environmental artist. Adding the junior to it could lead to you getting lowballed on pay.) 


  • chrisradsby
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    chrisradsby polycounter lvl 15
    Sorry to hear about your situation man! =/ It's really tricky trying to balance that stuff, however if you ever find yourself on your feet again I would seriously advice you to consider Sweden, it's a much more secure job environment for families than most other places.

    Free Education, Child Benefits, lots of vacations, long-ass parental leave even longer if both parents switch up and both go on parental leave. You also have the unions over here, even if you lose your job, they will help you out with like 80% of your salary for up to a year or something. (http://www.thelocal.se/20150506/a-kassa-the-swedish-secret-no-one-tells-you-to-do-first-thing-akademikernas-a-kassa-tlccu)

    As for your situation right now, I'd apply for any open spots anywhere really. I would also try and improve the portfolio stuff. It's good that you're experienced in different areas but you're at the point where you need to pick a specialization and run with it. If you're into Environment Art fully focus on it, don't wast time with weapons and stuff because there are always weapon artists (the one/two guys) in the studio that does that and will always do it better than you anyways because that's all they do.

    Like the MadArtist said as well, remove the junior from your art-station, just call yourself Environment Artist and let the studios decide which title to give you once you get hired.
  • Haytch
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    Haytch polycounter lvl 10
    Sorry to hear about your situation man! =/ It's really tricky trying to balance that stuff, however if you ever find yourself on your feet again I would seriously advice you to consider Sweden, it's a much more secure job environment for families than most other places.

    Free Education, Child Benefits, lots of vacations, long-ass parental leave even longer if both parents switch up and both go on parental leave. You also have the unions over here, even if you lose your job, they will help you out with like 80% of your salary for up to a year or something. (http://www.thelocal.se/20150506/a-kassa-the-swedish-secret-no-one-tells-you-to-do-first-thing-akademikernas-a-kassa-tlccu)

    As for your situation right now, I'd apply for any open spots anywhere really. I would also try and improve the portfolio stuff. It's good that you're experienced in different areas but you're at the point where you need to pick a specialization and run with it. If you're into Environment Art fully focus on it, don't wast time with weapons and stuff because there are always weapon artists (the one/two guys) in the studio that does that and will always do it better than you anyways because that's all they do.

    Like the MadArtist said as well, remove the junior from your art-station, just call yourself Environment Artist and let the studios decide which title to give you once you get hired.

    __________________________________________________________________________________

    I was actually offered a job in Sweden from an AAA studio, & Was considering it because I have a lot of family in Gothenburg, and flights are very cheap back to the UK, but the studio is in Stockholm. not sure the differenece of travel etc, I will look for open spots if everything fails at the studio in Horsham, but I'm looking forward to the interview, & I have already picked an area in art, I made those weapons to sell on turbosquid etc, & thought they were nice enough to pop on the portfolio. Also the AAA in Sweden Were reluctant because the Indie studio i was working at I was a Lead artist, But because I have just under 2 years experience in a studio they , not right out called me a liar, but were extremely agitated that I had 'Lead Environment Artist' on my portfolio, but that was what I did at this studio, they said if i changed my title to Jr i was more likely to get accepted for a job in an AAA, which suprisingly did, considering the studio in horsham, I applied for, they emailed me saying i wasn't successful then a week later I was emailed by the team saying to go in for an interview (probably because I changed my title to JR lol) and the other studio in Newcastle I don't actually remember applying for, I was just pretty excited because I've worked hard for years to get noticed, & to be chased by those guys, that I didn't apply for, & it wasn't an agency like you normally get saying 'I think you'd be good for this job blah blah' I was quite excited.

    Haytch said:
    Simulation development. There's various aspects of the industry: military, medical, aviation, etc. There's overlap between them as well.
    I'm nowhere near that level at the moment, my art isn't that realistic, plus they wouldn't take me & I'd also have no idea where to look
    That's not really the attitude to have..

    I've worked in simulation for both military and oil and gas for over 10 years now, and have hired a lot of people right out of school. Took a look at your portfolio, it's strong enough for places I've been at. (Psst, also don't call yourself a junior environmental artist on your site. Just say environmental artist. Adding the junior to it could lead to you getting lowballed on pay.) 

    __________________________________________________________________________________


    Took your advice & Just put Environment Artist, hope it works! cheers bud.
    Dot said:
    Haytch said:
    Simulation development. There's various aspects of the industry: military, medical, aviation, etc. There's overlap between them as well.
    I'm nowhere near that level at the moment, my art isn't that realistic, plus they wouldn't take me & I'd also have no idea where to look
    There are a few sim companies in the Kent area, make sure you check gamedevmap too for other options around you.  I´m not quite sure why you are selling yourself low here when you have applied to AAA! Best of luck!
    I'm selling my self a bit low because I just feel a bit low at the moment bud, Yes I applied to a AAA studio, but the studio I have an interview at First rejected me a week earlier, then emailed me back saying to go for an interview, so I still don't feel 100%, heck, im pretrified for my interview because they have all the leverage.
  • Haytch
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    Haytch polycounter lvl 10
    Dot said:
    Haytch said:
    Simulation development. There's various aspects of the industry: military, medical, aviation, etc. There's overlap between them as well.
    I'm nowhere near that level at the moment, my art isn't that realistic, plus they wouldn't take me & I'd also have no idea where to look
    There are a few sim companies in the Kent area, make sure you check gamedevmap too for other options around you.  I´m not quite sure why you are selling yourself low here when you have applied to AAA! Best of luck!
    Checked gamedev map, there's 2 in kent

    https://www.gamedevmap.com/index.php?country=United Kingdom&state=&city=&query=&type=
  • roboy
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    roboy polycounter lvl 11
    Have you tried Dovetail? They're based in Chatham which is only a 36 minute drive from Ashford 
  • GeorgeCrudo
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    GeorgeCrudo interpolator
    I'm gonna also recommend simulation development especially with your skill set. You're definitely selling yourself and your work short. You can make it in there I would wager pretty easily. It's much more stable and reliable work than the game industry and you still get to be a 3D artist! It's not as "flashy" as the game industry is but its still a very good compromise.
  • Haytch
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    Haytch polycounter lvl 10
    Cheers to both of you, I'm going to call dovetail tomorrow & will look at some simdev work

  • Swaggletooth
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    Swaggletooth polycounter lvl 5
    Simulation development. There's various aspects of the industry: military, medical, aviation, etc. There's overlap between them as well.

    I can back that up. Personally I find it to be a crushingly boring field to work in, but it is extremely stable. Most of the people I know who work in it do so because they have families.
  • TheMadArtist
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    TheMadArtist polycounter lvl 12
    Simulation development. There's various aspects of the industry: military, medical, aviation, etc. There's overlap between them as well.

    I can back that up. Personally I find it to be a crushingly boring field to work in, but it is extremely stable. Most of the people I know who work in it do so because they have families.
    I can say that when I was in military sim, we were able to work on some pretty cool stuff. In oil and gas sim though, the sim part of it can be a little mind numbing, but in both places I did more than just 3d models for the sim. I also did animation and marketing work too. Those teams are usually small so (at least in my experience) you get to wear a couple of hats and that means things are constantly changing as to what you are working on. 
  • JacqueChoi
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    JacqueChoi polycounter
    I don't want to sound like a jackass. 
    I don't want to tell you how to live your live either.

    You're not exactly painting your wife in a great light, and I don't think that's fair to her. I'd assume there's probably a lot more substance to her stance of wanting to just stay put. I mean you were the one after-all that asked to put her life on hold for another child. That is no small thing to ask.

    But as of right now, it sounds to me like you're considering your family to be your #2 priority in life. And you're beginning to resent them for not allowing you to pursue your individual goals.



    And the AAA studio is correct in feeling agitated. With 'Lead' on your CV, you're directly comparing yourself to the Leads at the AAA studios that have worked over 15+ years to get to their position, and trying to present yourself as someone who is on their level. You're also undermining many of the Seniors who have worked in the industry for decades, who you are presenting yourself as capable of leading.

    I tell my students not to make the same mistake. There are MANY students who write themselves as 'Art Directors' for their student projects, and it impresses absolutely nobody and is insulting to the AD's and to many of the art team. 


  • Jonas Ronnegard
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    Jonas Ronnegard polycount sponsor
    And the AAA studio is correct in feeling agitated. With 'Lead' on your CV, you're directly comparing yourself to the Leads at the AAA studios that have worked over 15+ years to get to their position, and trying to present yourself as someone who is on their level. You're also undermining many of the Seniors who have worked in the industry for decades, who you are presenting yourself as capable of leading.

    I tell my students not to make the same mistake. There are MANY students who write themselves as 'Art Directors' for their student projects, and it impresses absolutely nobody and is insulting to the AD's and to many of the art team. 


    Just to be clear, are you referring to the project he have listed under About on artstation where it says he was a lead artist on a Indie project?

    Sorry if I'm missing the real CV, but if that is what you mean then I think it would be a bit weird to write anything but lead if he really was a lead on that project, I think AAA studios looking at his CV and sees he have had a lead position on a Indie project won't feel that is offensive or weird in any way, being a lead on a indie project and being a lead on a big team AAA project are 2 different things and as long as he doesn't try to sell himself as someone that expects to be put directly in to a lead position at the studio I think there is nothing wrong with writing what is true, but again I might be missing the real CV.
  • slipsius
    Hour and a half drive each way to work isnt the worst... I was taking the train/subway 2 hours each way for a while. When I got to drive, it was an hour, and totally manageable. I could have driven longer. Do you have a car?
  • Haytch
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    Haytch polycounter lvl 10
    I don't want to sound like a jackass. 
    I don't want to tell you how to live your live either.

    You're not exactly painting your wife in a great light, and I don't think that's fair to her. I'd assume there's probably a lot more substance to her stance of wanting to just stay put. I mean you were the one after-all that asked to put her life on hold for another child. That is no small thing to ask.

    But as of right now, it sounds to me like you're considering your family to be your #2 priority in life. And you're beginning to resent them for not allowing you to pursue your individual goals.



    And the AAA studio is correct in feeling agitated. With 'Lead' on your CV, you're directly comparing yourself to the Leads at the AAA studios that have worked over 15+ years to get to their position, and trying to present yourself as someone who is on their level. You're also undermining many of the Seniors who have worked in the industry for decades, who you are presenting yourself as capable of leading.

    I tell my students not to make the same mistake. There are MANY students who write themselves as 'Art Directors' for their student projects, and it impresses absolutely nobody and is insulting to the AD's and to many of the art team. 



    my wife is great, we've not put our lives on hold to have a baby, i was working from home, she teaches at a school, i said to her once she'd had the baby because i work from home she could still work, I'm also not trying to put my wife or her kids 2nd priority, but I need to look from a logical point of view, I work as an Artist, if i turn down every studio that offers me a job because I can't move, I'm limiting what i can and can't do, which means i can't provide, which then makes me out to be  a deadbeat, although I'm turning the jobs down due to circumstances, I feel inadiqaute in the fact that I could be earning and have lots of chances but I can't take any of the chances because it makes my wife unhappy, as I said shes older than me, her eldest is doing her GCSE's at school, that is her main concern, her kids are her priority, providing for them is mine, But i can't provide if i apply for a job, get an interview, get an offer, and turn them down because I can't move?, this is my dilema, also, I'm not passing myself as a a Lead artist, I'm nowhere near that Level, I started at the indie studio as a freelance, the Environment artist, Then a Tech artist, Then a Lead Environment Artist, But the only reason for that was my skills to optimise performance, a solid understanding of the pipeline and wanting to see more structure between everyone, Furthermore I think if i ever did get to a point at a big studio where i was offered a lead, I'd probably turn it down, It's pretty annoying, lots of paperwork, organisation, tasking other people, no chance to be creative. the reason my Artstation (not my CV) said I was a lead artist is because at the time i was, whether I liked it or not, that was my position.
  • JacqueChoi
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    JacqueChoi polycounter
    Just to be clear, are you referring to the project he have listed under About on artstation where it says he was a lead artist on a Indie project?
    I'm pointing out the anecdote he made about how a AAA studio didn't like how he wrote Lead on his CV, and I'm also echoing the same statement. 

    Having a 'Lead' position on any project denotes leading and managing a team of artists and navigating through the rigors of all stages of production because you understand what it takes through actual EXPERIENCE. It's silly when the only 9 months of someones career they are listing themselves as a Lead.

    Leadership to many people is defined by Experience and Empathy. It's hard to have that experience part down with 9 months. I kid you not, this stuff gets mocked and laughed at.

    (I also noticed he spelled "Technical" wrong on linkedin).

    Haytch said:
    I'm also not trying to put my wife or her kids 2nd priority, but I need to look from a logical point of view, I work as an Artist, if i turn down every studio that offers me a job because I can't move, I'm limiting what i can and can't do, which means i can't provide, which then makes me out to be  a deadbeat, although I'm turning the jobs down due to circumstances, I feel inadiqaute in the fact that I could be earning and have lots of chances but I can't take any of the chances because it makes my wife unhappy, as I said shes older than me, her eldest is doing her GCSE's at school, that is her main concern, her kids are her priority, providing for them is mine, But i can't provide if i apply for a job, get an interview, get an offer, and turn them down because I can't move?, this is my dilema.
    I mean I totally get where you're coming from. But you DID title the thread "Game Industry VERSUS Family".

    Then went on to say:

    "i can't see myself doing anything else, i don't want to"
    "I just don't want to have wasted 6 years working hard to make a difference"
    And something about wanting to experience people coming up to you and say some game you made was awesome.

    Anyone that advocates you leave your pregnant wife is obviously a total scumbag human being. But as others have said, there might be ways to make your situation work out. These don't have to be things that are at odds with each other.

    I really feel for you and hope things work out.


  • Prime8
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    Prime8 interpolator
    It is difficult to give advice to an unknown person in a tough life situation, take this more as an opinion rather than an advice.
    If I understand you correctly, you did apply already for jobs but rejected them due to the distance.
    Before applying for a job you have to relocate for I would first of all clarify if relocating is an option for you or not, otherwise what is the point applying in the first place, it just frustrates you.
    Like buying a chocolate cake during a diet and not eating it ;)

    If your other family members are unhappy after relocating it might have such a big impact on your overall situation that you will not enjoy the job you moved for either.

    You could think about getting a job just for money and enjoy the time with your family and spend your free time on art. After some time think of getting a job in the game industry again and consider relocating again. Maybe save some money even, depending on the job you get.

    In the end it's all up to you.
  • Haytch
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    Haytch polycounter lvl 10
    Just to be clear, are you referring to the project he have listed under About on artstation where it says he was a lead artist on a Indie project?
    I'm pointing out the anecdote he made about how a AAA studio didn't like how he wrote Lead on his CV, and I'm also echoing the same statement. 

    Having a 'Lead' position on any project denotes leading and managing a team of artists and navigating through the rigors of all stages of production because you understand what it takes through actual EXPERIENCE. It's silly when the only 9 months of someones career they are listing themselves as a Lead.

    Leadership to many people is defined by Experience and Empathy. It's hard to have that experience part down with 9 months. I kid you not, this stuff gets mocked and laughed at.

    (I also noticed he spelled "Technical" wrong on linkedin).

    Haytch said:
    I'm also not trying to put my wife or her kids 2nd priority, but I need to look from a logical point of view, I work as an Artist, if i turn down every studio that offers me a job because I can't move, I'm limiting what i can and can't do, which means i can't provide, which then makes me out to be  a deadbeat, although I'm turning the jobs down due to circumstances, I feel inadiqaute in the fact that I could be earning and have lots of chances but I can't take any of the chances because it makes my wife unhappy, as I said shes older than me, her eldest is doing her GCSE's at school, that is her main concern, her kids are her priority, providing for them is mine, But i can't provide if i apply for a job, get an interview, get an offer, and turn them down because I can't move?, this is my dilema.
    I mean I totally get where you're coming from. But you DID title the thread "Game Industry VERSUS Family".

    Then went on to say:

    "i can't see myself doing anything else, i don't want to"
    "I just don't want to have wasted 6 years working hard to make a difference"
    And something about wanting to experience people coming up to you and say some game you made was awesome.

    Anyone that advocates you leave your pregnant wife is obviously a total scumbag human being. But as others have said, there might be ways to make your situation work out. These don't have to be things that are at odds with each other.

    I really feel for you and hope things work out.


    Yeah I completely get where you're coming from, and the title game industry VS family was more a question in general to other artists who have been or are in similar situations, I honestly don't want to see myself in this situation, as explained to my wife, If a carpenter lost his job, would he look for more carpenting jobs or would he look for a job as a labourer, maybe even a coffee maker, or bar tender, If we have a trade, we use it, I was diagnosed with ADHD about 2 months ago, Before I was diagnosed I was stupid, Reckless, I was young, I couldn't hold a job for more than a year, I always wanted to do better, be better, and doing art, I found my own little world, No thoughts, no distractions, just constant work and improvement, I do see so many different oppertunities, some say leave my wife, some say don't, if my wife wasn't pregnant, There would be a chance that I'd take a job in a different country & come visit as much as possible, her children aren't mine, just the one in her stomach, but the fact I put her in this position, I can't walk away.

    I've told the Studio in Newcastle my situation and explained what pro's and con's & possibilities would allow me to move, so I'll be hearing back next week with a decision. 
  • Haytch
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    Haytch polycounter lvl 10
    Prime8 said:
    It is difficult to give advice to an unknown person in a tough life situation, take this more as an opinion rather than an advice.
    If I understand you correctly, you did apply already for jobs but rejected them due to the distance.
    Before applying for a job you have to relocate for I would first of all clarify if relocating is an option for you or not, otherwise what is the point applying in the first place, it just frustrates you.
    Like buying a chocolate cake during a diet and not eating it ;)

    If your other family members are unhappy after relocating it might have such a big impact on your overall situation that you will not enjoy the job you moved for either.

    You could think about getting a job just for money and enjoy the time with your family and spend your free time on art. After some time think of getting a job in the game industry again and consider relocating again. Maybe save some money even, depending on the job you get.

    In the end it's all up to you.
    It is very difficult indeed, I sometimes feel really bad, for putting my wife in this situation, for wanting to be an artist, and sometimes because I have to chose family over career, But only one of the three studios I applied for, and the studio I applied for is Local (an hours drive) they actually originally turned me down, a week later i had a meeting scheduled with them, (They contacted me), The other two, I didn't apply for, which is my dilemma because, all three are great studios, a lot of AAA titles, infact, one of them, a friend of mine didn't even know they were looking for artists, and i'm just shocked at the fact that i was contacted directly, not an agency guy saying 'there's this great opportunity let me put you forward for it blah blah blah' it was from within the studio themselves. the main concern I worry is that, 10 years down the line or whatnot, If another big opportunity came up my wife still woudn't go, and I know some of you can say shes bad or not a good wife, but the truth is, the first two years we were together, I couldn't find a job, then I had small commission only jobs in sales, then in a small game sales shop, then all over the place work, it's only been the past year or two i've been stable, mature & understand what I want to do with my life, I don't have pretty much any family, so for me the option is easy straight away, my wife, lives within a 5 minute walking distance in any direction to all of her family, and she sees them several times a week, her children see their dad several times a month, so this is the hard things, Looking for work I do usually look for (remote only) work, or Local. I suppose something will turn out, I want to thank all you guys for listening to me, letting me see every side, see every option I have, some excellent advice, I will keep you guys updated, & once I make my decision You guys will all know what's been going on. I have my 2nd Interview today, this one is the local one (it's the one my wife has her hopes on, I'm worried too but lets see how it plays out,) all the best !
  • Haytch
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    Haytch polycounter lvl 10
    Well guys, I've just had a two hour conversation with my wife, and I've explained to her, That whilst, right now May not be the perfect time to relocate, I want to know for future so If i was offered somewhere better than a foreign speaking country (not saying they're bad etc, but kids will need to go to school, she researched & said they pretty much have to learn the language), That i'd be able to say ' my wife would be willing to move ' so I can get my foot in the door, we've finally came to an agreement to discuss & think about things further, She is hoping to stop working once we have the baby, which is more of a reason I pushed to moving since she'd be at home, so lets see what the next few years do!, I really want to say thank you to you guys, I appreciate all your support and love you guys so much, you're all great people with inspiriational testimonies to different sectors, I hope to either work with you guys, help with you guys or keep in contact! thank you all. I hope anyone in my situation will find this helpful & i also ask if anyone is in this situation please don't hesitate to contact me and talk, to both myself & my wife.! peace.
  • slipsius
    Why is this a studio or nothing thing? you can make a living and provide as a freelancer if you really set out to do it. Especially since you mentioned art was kind of your escape. Your own little place. It wont be your own little place in a studio. There will be a TON of distractions. 

    Also, Im just going to say it. When it comes down to being the provider for your family, and not being a "deadbeat" as you put it, its really not about finding your dream job. It's about finding a job that pays the bills. No one has ever said being the provider will give you the job you love. So, as your title suggests... Which is it? Do you want your dream job, or do you want to provide for your family? If it's looking like you cant have both, then you need to decide. 
  • Josh_Singh
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    Josh_Singh polycounter lvl 18
    Hey Heytch,
    Sounds like you have a dream and are not being patient enough with yourself. 
    I have 4 kids and have been married going on 16 years, I have been in the game industry for 13 of those years. The game industry is fickle, and I dare say you have to be among the very best these days to find that solid studio job, that plays out a normal 9 to 5, that has benefits and you can be with for 5+years.
    The reality is you need to pay the bills. Pay those fucking bills bro. Work at McDonald's, be a telemarketer, sell used cars whatever it takes to keep the lights on and food in the fridge. When you get home you work on that portfolio for 4 hours everyday. You are the last one to bed every night. It's sounds like you know what failure feels like, get used to it, know that it's necessary to the process. Family first man. Always family first. When your portfolio and your reputation get to the point where the big studios are courting you (because thtays what they do) you will have that conversation with your wife and hopefully it and the vision can become as clear to her as it is to you. Good luck man. Nothing awesome is easy. -Josh
  • Haytch
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    Haytch polycounter lvl 10
    Hey Heytch,
    Sounds like you have a dream and are not being patient enough with yourself. 
    I have 4 kids and have been married going on 16 years, I have been in the game industry for 13 of those years. The game industry is fickle, and I dare say you have to be among the very best these days to find that solid studio job, that plays out a normal 9 to 5, that has benefits and you can be with for 5+years.
    The reality is you need to pay the bills. Pay those fucking bills bro. Work at McDonald's, be a telemarketer, sell used cars whatever it takes to keep the lights on and food in the fridge. When you get home you work on that portfolio for 4 hours everyday. You are the last one to bed every night. It's sounds like you know what failure feels like, get used to it, know that it's necessary to the process. Family first man. Always family first. When your portfolio and your reputation get to the point where the big studios are courting you (because thtays what they do) you will have that conversation with your wife and hopefully it and the vision can become as clear to her as it is to you. Good luck man. Nothing awesome is easy. -Josh
    Cheers man, Yeah I've thought of this too, I'm currently doing some freelance work with at a few small places, some is free work (to help improve my portfolio) and some is with a growing friendship and small income, I'm hoping it'll cover the bills, I'm 65% funded to my bills this month, so if all works well, I could hopefully continue doing this, my main problem now is, there is not really that many studios near me, so when the time comes to decide, Game industry or Work industry, what will happen, I have spoken to my wife and she has agreed if the right opportunity comes along she will move, I think she still has fears because of the breakdown of her last marriage, so it's a case of me showing I'm hard working & also loyal to her, things will play out towards the end. Thanks for your moral support bud!.
  • Giles1986
    Best thing I did was leave the gaming industry. Poor pay, overtime and instability meant it was impossible to have a normal life. Can’t understand why anyone would want to work in it who would like a house and family. I still work in a related industry but it offers all the things a gaming job does plus all the things it does not. (Security/no overtime/pension/a life away from work)
  • RN
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    RN sublime tool
    @Giles1986 hi, what related industry?
  • Giles1986
    I work in the gambling industry creating 2D/3D graphics for a lot growing games
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