Game Industry Vs Family Life!? Help!
polycounter lvl 9
Hey guys, So I've been working remote for a game studio for 2 years, as an Environment Artist, Due to lack of funding they can't afford to keep that many people anymore, I have a wife who has 3 children from an ex husband, I'm 25, shes 31, I'm quite family orientated & old fashioned in the sense, I need to earn and provide, After getting into the industry (even indie) i never wanted to go back to a normal job again, Recently I applied for a few AAA studios, Was turned down by most of them (as expected), Surprisingly enough, 2 of the ones who turned me down, came back to me and asked me to go in for an interview, one is in Horsham (UK), I live in Ashford, Kent, (UK) So it's about an hour and a half drive from me, the other is in Newcastle, Both are pretty big studios, I'm more leaning towards Newcastle because I love the games they make, My wife just doesn't want to move, I've had to turn down Big opportunities from studios in Germany & Sweden because of relocation, not a lot of studios allow for remote work, or work remote but come in once or twice a week, Now that being said, I can understand both sides, my wife has her kids in school, two are teens and 1 is in primary school, shes about a year into a great job as a teacher at school working with kids with special needs, that actually triggered her to tell me something was up with me, so after a bit of a fight with the NHS i decided to go private, Found out I had ADHD, which explained why i always got bored in jobs, couldn't hold a job for more than 1 year, Another reason I can understand her side.
But I love Game art, I love creating, learning, improving, inspiring etc etc, I've turned down some pretty big studios, and my portfolio sucks, I'm completely self taught & have no qualifications, This was my chance to get in, first I turned down an amazing project which everyone was talking about, because I would have had to move, she wouldn't. Now, I thought I was secure in the Indie studio I'm working at, Pay is a lot better than AAA, AAA you're looking to earn about £1200 - £1800 a month BEFORE Tax (at my level), Indie (depending on the studio) I was earning £2600+ Per month, which put us in a great place, Now I'm just lost and confused, I feel like nothing I do will be good enough, I can't work at a AAA studio because there's none near me and my wife won't move, anyway, back to the security, I thought I was secure at the Indie studio, working remote, things where going good, So I asked my wife if we could have one more kid, the final kid, Litteraly, about 2 - 3 days after finding out she was pregnant I had another offer from a AAA studio, One I turned down originally because I didn't want to be a lighting artist, my boss found out & said 'listen, I need to tell you because its getting bad, we've kept you on even after most of the other artists had been let go, we're running low on funding & we're onto the coding aspect, the game is done it just needs to be fine tuned by coders, so we can't keep you anymore, IF we get more funding though we don't want to loose you'. So after this mad roller coaster of a year, I'd gone from doing amazingly good, both career & family wise, baby on the way, To feeling like a complete and utter IDIOT because I (ME!!!) talked my wife into having one more kid because we were secure & stable, what makes it even worse is, I can't take an offer in another country, or cross country & go without her, because she didn't want anymore kids, she got pregnant for me, it took me years of talking her into it( even took me years to talk her into letting me get a dog!), so Now i'm at a crossroads, I can't leave her to be pregnant on her own, I can't leave her to work in another country & Just visit or come back on weekends, I just don't know what to do!, I guess the game industry is a little trickier than I thought, there's no room for families, if you don't move you can't accept the job!, there's hundreds of more artists out there, what makes you so special that a studio who has never had a remote worker would allow you to work remote?. none.
So I have a job interview Friday (with a studio that's about an hour or two's drive)
Another one tomorrow (which is a 6 hours drive, which i really shouldn't even be entertaining because she won't move)
But There's no indie studios about at the moment?!.
Sorry to blabber on, I needed someone to vent to, you guys are all artists and you should hear this 1. because I don't want you guys falling into this pit i'm in, and 2. because i just don't know... don't even know what to say.
Thanks for letting me vent, If you guys and gals have any suggestions I'm happy to listen!
I'll put my portfolio up here (no idea why, if you guys see anything near me in kent be sure to give em it!)
https://www.artstation.com/artist/haytch
This is probably my final cry to stay an artist, if not I guess i'll end up working at mcdonalds or kfc!, how bad is that!
But I love Game art, I love creating, learning, improving, inspiring etc etc, I've turned down some pretty big studios, and my portfolio sucks, I'm completely self taught & have no qualifications, This was my chance to get in, first I turned down an amazing project which everyone was talking about, because I would have had to move, she wouldn't. Now, I thought I was secure in the Indie studio I'm working at, Pay is a lot better than AAA, AAA you're looking to earn about £1200 - £1800 a month BEFORE Tax (at my level), Indie (depending on the studio) I was earning £2600+ Per month, which put us in a great place, Now I'm just lost and confused, I feel like nothing I do will be good enough, I can't work at a AAA studio because there's none near me and my wife won't move, anyway, back to the security, I thought I was secure at the Indie studio, working remote, things where going good, So I asked my wife if we could have one more kid, the final kid, Litteraly, about 2 - 3 days after finding out she was pregnant I had another offer from a AAA studio, One I turned down originally because I didn't want to be a lighting artist, my boss found out & said 'listen, I need to tell you because its getting bad, we've kept you on even after most of the other artists had been let go, we're running low on funding & we're onto the coding aspect, the game is done it just needs to be fine tuned by coders, so we can't keep you anymore, IF we get more funding though we don't want to loose you'. So after this mad roller coaster of a year, I'd gone from doing amazingly good, both career & family wise, baby on the way, To feeling like a complete and utter IDIOT because I (ME!!!) talked my wife into having one more kid because we were secure & stable, what makes it even worse is, I can't take an offer in another country, or cross country & go without her, because she didn't want anymore kids, she got pregnant for me, it took me years of talking her into it( even took me years to talk her into letting me get a dog!), so Now i'm at a crossroads, I can't leave her to be pregnant on her own, I can't leave her to work in another country & Just visit or come back on weekends, I just don't know what to do!, I guess the game industry is a little trickier than I thought, there's no room for families, if you don't move you can't accept the job!, there's hundreds of more artists out there, what makes you so special that a studio who has never had a remote worker would allow you to work remote?. none.
So I have a job interview Friday (with a studio that's about an hour or two's drive)
Another one tomorrow (which is a 6 hours drive, which i really shouldn't even be entertaining because she won't move)
But There's no indie studios about at the moment?!.
Sorry to blabber on, I needed someone to vent to, you guys are all artists and you should hear this 1. because I don't want you guys falling into this pit i'm in, and 2. because i just don't know... don't even know what to say.
Thanks for letting me vent, If you guys and gals have any suggestions I'm happy to listen!
I'll put my portfolio up here (no idea why, if you guys see anything near me in kent be sure to give em it!)
https://www.artstation.com/artist/haytch
This is probably my final cry to stay an artist, if not I guess i'll end up working at mcdonalds or kfc!, how bad is that!
Replies
Best of luck, it's not going to be easy, but you and your wife are going to have to have some long serious talks about it.
Every studio can be shut down. You could be working for the biggest and top selling studio of all time, and there's a really good chance they might close shop in under a year. This is the reality of our medium, and of the times.
The chances of you being at 1 studio for the rest of your career is slim to none. That barely exist in any other industry anywhere in the world outside of the public sector. Spending 40 years at 1 company was something our parents did, but the average employee in the games industry stays at any single studio for an average of 2.5 years.
Moving from country to country city to city chasing work used to be normal a decade ago. Now there are what I would call 'clusters'.
Montreal, Seattle, LA, are places where there are several game studios, and plenty of jobs and industries that can use similar 3D skills (VFX, Simulations, VizDev). If you're not in a cluster, you will likely have to move around for work. This makes those types of cities a bit more ideal for artists to have families.
If you want to make it as a freelancer, you'll need to become, faster, and more renown.
Freelance does become an option to those who are dedicated enough to pursue it, but you'll need a lot more practice and experience to get to a level where you can reliably do it.
again, I'm not moaning or even doing the pride thing (moaning a little) but I don't want to provide for my family by selling bugers at mcdonalds, I don't want to provide a 'little' for my family by being a machine operator/forklift driver, I want to earn enough money to treat my wife, go on holidays, enjoy life, AS of course we all do!, i'm not saying I'm different, better or deserve anything more than you guys, i'm just saying, how i feel, Thank you guys for talking to me, I know this is stupid I just had nowhere else to turn to, I feel kind of depressed right now because if i talk to normal people who aren't artists like us and spend 27 hours a day working on portfolio, personal project or work related stuff, they just say 'leave her' or 'make her go' or 'how inconsiderate' when the reality of the truth is it isn't that simple, I came into her life knowing she had 3 kids, and choosing to take them on, I spent 2 years being a complete deadbeat, jumping from job to job, being on benefits, and it sucked, I was at a low in my life, didn't know anything & didn't want to know anything, whereas now, I can see what i can achieve, a legacy i can pass to my kids, My mother & father never raised me so I didn't have 'guidance' Never knew what I wanted to do, heck, I still don't, But i know when it comes to game art, I feel at home, I can talk to people, I can be creative, do what I want & people will either say, that's shit! or WOW, didn't know you could do that.
Can you maybe work away for the 5 days then come back weekends? That's an option for a lot of couples.
Quite a drive to Newcastle if it's the studio I am thinking of, then could be ok( though I haven't worked there)
tough on family life though, kids will really miss you.
I think your work is perfectly fine, try and be a bit more postive:) least you are getting interviews and stuff.
There are plenty of companies down south, maybe just persevere - get a crappy job for the mean time, then just keep applying. Don't just limit yourself to 2 companies, which is kind of obvious i guess.
I really would not give up though. shame to waste the talent you have if you love it that much.
There are also other areas of 3d you could get in to not just games, so you don't have to go back to being a forklift driver( fork that)
Try not to make it a 'missus and kids vs the job' situation though, you really have to talk it out more - simple as
Well, just don't put all your frustrations on your kids because that will suck for them. This is a choice you made, and i'm pretty sure you will find a good way to overcome this.
If you can't move to some place where game studios are (montreal, LA, etc...) then you should just work with other areas that involve 3d or something like that.
Can't really give you good advices thought. Best of luck to you o/
no probs, hope thing work out for you
I've worked in simulation for both military and oil and gas for over 10 years now, and have hired a lot of people right out of school. Took a look at your portfolio, it's strong enough for places I've been at. (Psst, also don't call yourself a junior environmental artist on your site. Just say environmental artist. Adding the junior to it could lead to you getting lowballed on pay.)
Free Education, Child Benefits, lots of vacations, long-ass parental leave even longer if both parents switch up and both go on parental leave. You also have the unions over here, even if you lose your job, they will help you out with like 80% of your salary for up to a year or something. (http://www.thelocal.se/20150506/a-kassa-the-swedish-secret-no-one-tells-you-to-do-first-thing-akademikernas-a-kassa-tlccu)
As for your situation right now, I'd apply for any open spots anywhere really. I would also try and improve the portfolio stuff. It's good that you're experienced in different areas but you're at the point where you need to pick a specialization and run with it. If you're into Environment Art fully focus on it, don't wast time with weapons and stuff because there are always weapon artists (the one/two guys) in the studio that does that and will always do it better than you anyways because that's all they do.
Like the MadArtist said as well, remove the junior from your art-station, just call yourself Environment Artist and let the studios decide which title to give you once you get hired.
https://www.gamedevmap.com/index.php?country=United Kingdom&state=&city=&query=&type=
I can back that up. Personally I find it to be a crushingly boring field to work in, but it is extremely stable. Most of the people I know who work in it do so because they have families.
I don't want to tell you how to live your live either.
You're not exactly painting your wife in a great light, and I don't think that's fair to her. I'd assume there's probably a lot more substance to her stance of wanting to just stay put. I mean you were the one after-all that asked to put her life on hold for another child. That is no small thing to ask.
But as of right now, it sounds to me like you're considering your family to be your #2 priority in life. And you're beginning to resent them for not allowing you to pursue your individual goals.
And the AAA studio is correct in feeling agitated. With 'Lead' on your CV, you're directly comparing yourself to the Leads at the AAA studios that have worked over 15+ years to get to their position, and trying to present yourself as someone who is on their level. You're also undermining many of the Seniors who have worked in the industry for decades, who you are presenting yourself as capable of leading.
I tell my students not to make the same mistake. There are MANY students who write themselves as 'Art Directors' for their student projects, and it impresses absolutely nobody and is insulting to the AD's and to many of the art team.
Sorry if I'm missing the real CV, but if that is what you mean then I think it would be a bit weird to write anything but lead if he really was a lead on that project, I think AAA studios looking at his CV and sees he have had a lead position on a Indie project won't feel that is offensive or weird in any way, being a lead on a indie project and being a lead on a big team AAA project are 2 different things and as long as he doesn't try to sell himself as someone that expects to be put directly in to a lead position at the studio I think there is nothing wrong with writing what is true, but again I might be missing the real CV.
my wife is great, we've not put our lives on hold to have a baby, i was working from home, she teaches at a school, i said to her once she'd had the baby because i work from home she could still work, I'm also not trying to put my wife or her kids 2nd priority, but I need to look from a logical point of view, I work as an Artist, if i turn down every studio that offers me a job because I can't move, I'm limiting what i can and can't do, which means i can't provide, which then makes me out to be a deadbeat, although I'm turning the jobs down due to circumstances, I feel inadiqaute in the fact that I could be earning and have lots of chances but I can't take any of the chances because it makes my wife unhappy, as I said shes older than me, her eldest is doing her GCSE's at school, that is her main concern, her kids are her priority, providing for them is mine, But i can't provide if i apply for a job, get an interview, get an offer, and turn them down because I can't move?, this is my dilema, also, I'm not passing myself as a a Lead artist, I'm nowhere near that Level, I started at the indie studio as a freelance, the Environment artist, Then a Tech artist, Then a Lead Environment Artist, But the only reason for that was my skills to optimise performance, a solid understanding of the pipeline and wanting to see more structure between everyone, Furthermore I think if i ever did get to a point at a big studio where i was offered a lead, I'd probably turn it down, It's pretty annoying, lots of paperwork, organisation, tasking other people, no chance to be creative. the reason my Artstation (not my CV) said I was a lead artist is because at the time i was, whether I liked it or not, that was my position.
If I understand you correctly, you did apply already for jobs but rejected them due to the distance.
Before applying for a job you have to relocate for I would first of all clarify if relocating is an option for you or not, otherwise what is the point applying in the first place, it just frustrates you.
Like buying a chocolate cake during a diet and not eating it
If your other family members are unhappy after relocating it might have such a big impact on your overall situation that you will not enjoy the job you moved for either.
You could think about getting a job just for money and enjoy the time with your family and spend your free time on art. After some time think of getting a job in the game industry again and consider relocating again. Maybe save some money even, depending on the job you get.
In the end it's all up to you.
I've told the Studio in Newcastle my situation and explained what pro's and con's & possibilities would allow me to move, so I'll be hearing back next week with a decision.
Also, Im just going to say it. When it comes down to being the provider for your family, and not being a "deadbeat" as you put it, its really not about finding your dream job. It's about finding a job that pays the bills. No one has ever said being the provider will give you the job you love. So, as your title suggests... Which is it? Do you want your dream job, or do you want to provide for your family? If it's looking like you cant have both, then you need to decide.
Sounds like you have a dream and are not being patient enough with yourself.
I have 4 kids and have been married going on 16 years, I have been in the game industry for 13 of those years. The game industry is fickle, and I dare say you have to be among the very best these days to find that solid studio job, that plays out a normal 9 to 5, that has benefits and you can be with for 5+years.
The reality is you need to pay the bills. Pay those fucking bills bro. Work at McDonald's, be a telemarketer, sell used cars whatever it takes to keep the lights on and food in the fridge. When you get home you work on that portfolio for 4 hours everyday. You are the last one to bed every night. It's sounds like you know what failure feels like, get used to it, know that it's necessary to the process. Family first man. Always family first. When your portfolio and your reputation get to the point where the big studios are courting you (because thtays what they do) you will have that conversation with your wife and hopefully it and the vision can become as clear to her as it is to you. Good luck man. Nothing awesome is easy. -Josh