Need specific advice on getting into the industry
polycounter lvl 7
Hi polycounters,
I would really appreciate some advice on what I should focus on in my development as an artist, and I know Polycount is one of the best places to get serious feedback.
Here's the situation: I'm 27, working a full time office job, and trying to get into the games industry. My long term goal is to eventually do concept art for something like Deus Ex, Cyberpunk 2077 etc. For the moment I've managed to get some art-tests and interviews at mobile and casual companies, but wasn't picked. When I look at job offers online I see that most offers for 2d artists mention being able to do UI. 3d artist positions are also relatively abundant. Low-level concept art jobs on the other hand don't seem to exist.
In light of this situation I'm asking myself if I should learn to do UI or 3D or just continue doing what I'm doing (which you can see here: artofjd.com). I'm not that interested in UI, so I'm not really excited about learning it. 3D on the other hand I like a lot, and have some experience in. The problem is, I have never really done game res stuff, so I think it could take a long time to learn enough to help me get employed, and my concept art could suffer in the meantime.
What would you do in my situation? Continue with just 2d art, learn GUI, or learn 3d?
Replies
As for 3D the last piece that you show looks good, and if you continue working in that style you should be able to find a job at a indie/mobile company doing a mix of 2D and 3D.
Your other option is of course getting better at 2D, I'm no expert and I'm no where close to being able to paint as good as you, but there is a lot that could get better, So the reason you haven't had any luck yet is probably not because you didn't have another skill but just that they had other applicants that were better, looking good though so you will naturally get better as you continue to paint, you just need time.
BTW I've seen your work before, I've been drooling over that Red Rocks piece for a while!
The first 3 images are great, and the lovecraft too.
A few pieces might be hurting your portfolio, I would suggest removing them:
Life drawings should all be removed. They don't belong in an entry portfolio.
Is the jetpack.jpg a 3d model? Some text explaining it's 3d, and how it was made would help. This should be in 3d section. Or better yet, put everything on one page. Don't break it up.
For a concept art position, it would really help to show multiple angles of the same subject. Breakdowns of a character for example. A concept art job is not just making pieces that set the overall mood, it's visual exploration of a theme. Explain how a subject is put together, what the parts are, etc.
I hope this helps. I moved your thread to 2D Showcase, since I think you're basically seeking portfolio critique.
I removed the images as you indicated.
I will have to experiment with adding the 3d stuff to the main page, I'm not sure if I can do that with the Squarespace template. If not, I can add them as stills.
The jetpack piece was made in Modo, with some dirt added in Photoshop. It was meant more as a 3d concept, not game asset, the geo is really ugly in that one. This is why I put it in the concept section rather than 3d. I will try adding some description to it, if the site allows me to.
I'll try doing some breakdowns / callouts of the stuff from the Lovecraft piece. As you've pointed out the more concept-art oriented stuff is missing.
Thanks again!
Best thing is just a single page with all your art on it, scroll down to see more. Maybe click on something to make it bigger.
My impressions of 3D compared to 2D: it's slower, much more focused on technical issues, and involves a lot less pure creativity in exchange for lots of crafting. Where 2D can be compared to coming up with ideas for various house designs and doing tight sketches of them, 3D can be compared to building the chosen house design, brick by brick, plank by plank, wiring it, tiling the roof, painting every surface, putting in floorboards, picking out the lights and installing them, putting out the fire your quick and dirty wiring job caused and having to rebuild the entire wing of the house that burned down, pasting up wallpaper, hanging pictures, building the furniture, sewing the bedding, firing up the kiln to make dishes, cooking dinner, and serving it on said dishes. 2D is quick, surface-level creativity and invention compared to 3D's relatively slow and thorough crafting, implementation, and solving technical issues. They're different beasts.
That isn't to say creativity and concepting aren't a part of 3D. Tor Frick concepts stuff in modo, quickly. And 2D designers use quick 3D blockouts as a base in their drawings.
That also isn't to say you couldn't do both: lots of concept artists know a little practical 3D. If they have full-time jobs at game studios, they aren't going to be coming up with new ideas all the time, especially near the end of production.
Basically, decide whether you like being creative all the time, on command, and whether doing 3D all the time instead would be stifling for you. You clearly have potential with 2D. Up to you! I'm still not sure what I want to do; probably a mix of both. But, I had a job for over a decade that made it so I had to be creative on command. On days where the creativity flowed, it was great. On days when it didn't, it sucked, and that wore me down after a while. Not having to be creative on command in order to do my job well sounds like a breath of fresh air.
A few things to watch out when trying to break in. First thing "My long term goal is to eventually do concept art for something like Deus Ex, Cyberpunk 2077" yet none of this has the same flavor of those games. If 343 is hiring a concept artist, Sparth is going to be looking for someone who has solved similar problems in the past. Remember that design is just educated solution providing, if you need someone to do vehicles, you want someone who knows the ins and outs of vehicles. I don't recommend specializing early in a career but the work you have in your portfolio will show your interest and provide an insight in how you think about that world.
Second, a bit of what Eric Chadwick said but you're not going to get hired to do the same pieces a seasoned pro will get hired to do. Its a lot of 3 quarter view or variations when starting off. Doing similar scenes in different camera angles and providing a solution to the same problem in multiple ways will get people interested in your work as well.
Third, and this goes kind of with the first thing, but have projects in your portfolio, not stand alone pieces. I made this mistake for years and it really hampered me finding work. If you have 6 or 7 pieces from the same project, even one that is made up, an art director can understand how you think about the world much easier than trying to guess from a stand alone piece.
Lastly, if you're serious about being a concept artist its a long and arduous rabbit hole. Submerge yourself in it. Listen to all of the Collective podcast, download brainstorm tutorials, watch FZD Design cinema and ArtCafe. Find any scrap of information you can and add that to your understanding of the industry and expectations of the work.
27 is not to late to break in. Jan Urschel didn't start till he was 28 I think and the dude is incredible and has gotten to work on amazing projects.
I knew I was gonna get called out on this, haha. This is definitely a longer term type of goal. In the short term I was targetting mobile studios more, hence for example the cars, the karting game, or the colorful watermill piece. I also like those type of visuals as well, Brothers: A Tale of Two Suns is in my top 5 favourite games of all time. I will definitely do some cyberpunk stuff as well in the future, as I love that aesthetic.
Yeah, I definitely have to start doing more of the production type of stuff like orthos etc. and projects as well. I really like the linework in your portfolio BTW. It seems familiar, I think I saw you posting about FZD on conceptart.org.
That part I got covered, haha. I listen to all of those regularly. I especially like Maciej's stuff as I have a similar background (Polish potato field
Thank you for the encouragement! I will try to take the house from the Lovecraft piece and design it out more precisely, with some variations etc. to add what you mention to my portfolio.
So, to sum it all up, I should:
-Stick with 2d, get better at it
-Maybe do some 3d in addition
-Not go into UI if I'm not into it
-do more 3/4 views, ortho, sketches, multiple angles, breakdowns, variations, not just finished scenes
-do projects
Thank you all for the advice, it's all very helpful and encouraging!
P.s. 27 too old to break in?! Pah
- Don't believe what a lot of people tell you about the industry, there's certainly a lot of romantic ideas about concept art around, at the end of the day, it's just design. The term concept art is very shady, there's more design than art involved in it, unless you work for Disney, visual development, etc.
- Learn 3D early on, it'll skip the hassle of setting a perspective grid if you can just go to 3D, set a few blocks, render, and draw/paint over. Some things are faster in 3D than 2D. Zbrush is (arguably) faster for creature design to visualize there rather than 2D.
FZD Design Cinema: Feng Zhu is one of the best, if not the designer for concept, the work he did for Dead Space' creatures is just stunning. He thinks a lot like a industrial designer, he treats his concept art as products, which is ultimately the goal for you, not paint pretty images!
HowToNotSuckAtGameDesign Blog: This blog is run by a game design teacher, from what I understand and has gold advice for his students, that he extends to the blog, he also answers questions that users submit, on occasion. It is a extension source to Feng Zhu. The title of the blog is self explanatory, but he goes with the do's and don'ts, de-mystifies the romantic ideas people have about concept art.
Chris Oatley Blog: It's run by an ex-Disney artist that runs his own academy and as such emphasizes art more than design, the way I see it. It goes against some of the values the other two blogs try to instruct, but there is useful info there. At first, I trusted blindly to it for my portfolio dev, but that didn't work too well for me.
If you don't like UI, don't do it. It'll reflect on your work. BTW, how can you like cyberpunk and not like UI? Ash Thorp and Janice Chu, both do UI and are both very different, maybe you want to check them.
From the images you show, they do look cool and have quality, so it seems you have your bases on fundamentals covered, which is a big part of it.
Darren Bartley focus is more on the design side than art http://fightpunch.deviantart.com/gallery/ it's a great view to compare your shape and form follows function design terms.
Joel dos Reis work presents a readable project sheet to aid a 3D modeling pipeline, which is ultimately what you'll work for. https://www.artstation.com/artwork/garrett-design
First off, the position of Concept Artist is one of the most coveted jobs in the game-industry, and as such, the level of competition is extremely high. You're competing with people who draw/paint/design 8 hours a day at their job, and then go home to do the same for 3-4 hours at home, honing their skill and practicing with diligence. Especially today, with the availability of cheap and great education such as videos and online classes. Concept Art is really a lifestyle, and I had to make many significant sacrifices in my personal/social life to get good enough.
The companies/jobs you listed are particularly difficult, you're looking at some of the best in the AAA industry, they have the brand power and money to attract some of the top talent in the world, which you'll be competing with.
I look at the pieces you've posted here, and you're not yet good enough. Comparing your art to the art of other artists in the field you clearly have to put in a lot of work. Accepting this is the first step to improvement, no matter how frustrating or devastating it might be. Keep your day-job, and practice 3-4 hours a day after work, and then all weekends for the next 2-3 years and you've got a shot.
For what you want to do, which is realistic sci-fi, which includes a lot of hard-surface-design, 3D is essential. The people I know in that bracket are often proficient with Modo and/or Sketchup. Photobashing is also a very common technique. Screw UI, if you don't like doing it you won't be able to put in the time and effort needed to get good at it. It's good to be versatile in terms of environment/character/weapon etc. however.
Look at the artists doing this kind of work, and compare with them, and make sure you ty to get your level close to theirs. Here are a few examples.
https://www.artstation.com/artist/nivanhchanthara
https://www.artstation.com/artist/oxanstudio
https://www.artstation.com/artist/sobakuchiuchiu
Hope that helps! You've got potential, stay diligent
I'm definitely on board with 3D, both pieces you see in this thread were started as Modo blockouts. I also do some Fusion 360, Blender and 3DCoat. I actually wouldn't mind if 90% percent of what I do, was done in 3D. I just like doing concepts, it doesn't really matter to me which tools I use, as long as they work. As mentioned previously, my hesitation was more about learning proper production 3D, vs the dirty concept 3D I do currently.
Thanks for the advice and resources, some of them I knew already, others I didn't and they're great. When I was talking about not being thrilled by UI, I meant the mobile/casual game UI that small companies are looking for. What Ash does for example I think is great, but also another skillset entirely, compared to concept art. Didn't know about Janice's stuff though, it's cool too.
Thanks for the advice Thérèse. It's an impressive career shift you managed to accomplish. Seeing this kind of stories is definitely motivating.
I'm definitely on board with 3D, both pieces you see in this thread were started as Modo blockouts. I also do some Fusion 360, Blender and 3DCoat. I actually wouldn't mind if 90% percent of what I do, was done in 3D. I just like doing concepts, it doesn't really matter to me which tools I use, as long as they work. As mentioned previously, my hesitation was more about learning proper production 3D, vs the dirty concept 3D I do currently.
Thanks for the advice and resources, some of them I knew already, others I didn't and they're great. When I was talking about not being thrilled by UI, I meant the mobile/casual game UI that small companies are looking for. What Ash does for example I think is great, but also another skillset entirely, compared to concept art. Didn't know about Janice's stuff though, it's cool too.
Thanks for the advice Thérèse. It's an impressive career shift you managed to accomplish. Seeing this kind of stories is definitely motivating.
I think Kaktuzlime summed it up pretty great.
One thought about doing portfolio work to get an indie job. I worked as a 3d artist doing hand painted stuff for the first 3 years of my career (I too wanted to become a concept artist doing sci fi stuff). It was pretty fun and working at small studios gave me a chance to learn game dev pretty much from the ground up. I spent those 3 years with practically no life. Taking CGMA classes as often as I could. Drawing every morning before work and after work. I had a steady salary, I lived comfortably. But I was progressing slowly.
I then spent 1.5 years doing freelance work and spending all my freetime painting and drawing. I worked about 20-30% on freelance contracts. During this time I made much less money, but I got a whole lot better.
I'm not really suggesting you go freelance, but rather a year or so down the line, think about looking for jobs that will allow you to have more practice hours per day. It might get you to your goal faster.
Tldr; Taking a part time job will give you more time to spend on your drawing and painting skills, but less money (you won't notice because you will be in your dark room painting anyway).
Best of luck!
1. You could learn texturing way faster than 3D modelling since you're a 2D artist. So look at something like Borderlands for example, the game is all about the textures, and you could definitely master this style in the near future and apply for similar style companies.
2. In this industry, it's all about who you know. So look for every mashup or event related to this field (Media, Gaming, Art). Make yourself a nice business card with a link to your portfolio and BAM.. you're a free agent available for hiring.
3. To get to the big guys, you need to work with the smaller guys first. So approach indie studios and startups they are always looking for good talent that they can afford. Maybe you'd prefer working with indie studios than AAA after all.
Never give up on your dreams and good luck finding a good job