Inset Chamfer

Swordslayer

A new separate thread stemmed from the Polyhertz's 3dsMax script - 'Quick High-Poly' discussion.

MXS modifier for download here: http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/insetfix-modifier

• InsetFix.ms is just the fixed inset-by-smoothing-groups modifier - it gives a cleaner result than simple inset but it's also slower (you won't notice that with simple models but for complex models you are better of using the regular inset)
  
• InsetFixChamferStack.ms is a modifier that adds the complete inset+chamfer interactive stack
• InsetFixQuadChamferStack.ms does the same but uses Quad Chamfer instead of max Chamfer (you need to have the Quad Chamfer modifier for it to work)

As it is a modifier, everything is procedural and you can return to the base object and change stuff any time.



If you only want a regular inset by smoothing groups modifier and don't mind its shortcomings (it's the one shown in the gif above and does basically what the original Polyhertz's script does, just as a modifier combo), you can get it here: http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/inset-by-smoothing-group
For complex models I strongly suggest you use this one as it's much faster.

For those who don't mind some tinkering and playing with something that breaks easily, and want to learn MCG, here's also the original MCG modifier: http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/mcg/inset-chamfer

Bear in mind that you'll be basically a betatester if you install it, as there are still quite a few unsolved issues. Any pointers, suggestions etc are welcome.
If you decide to use the Smooth modifier in the stack and you get unexpected results after enabling it, you might want to try unchecking Prevent Indirect Smoothing.
If you get an error message, please open the maxscript listener window (F11 hotkey), copy its contents (should say what happened and what the values were), send it to pastebin and insert the link here. If you are able to reproduce it on a given mesh and you are allowed to share the model, it's even better if you attach the file as well.

Scruples

You need to put it in your stdplugs/stdscripts folder in the 3ds directory

Swordslayer

Installing in the case of scripted modifiers means putting it somewhere where it will be run every time max starts - either in the %userprofile%\AppData\Local\Autodesk\3dsMax\2017 - 64bit\ENU\scripts\startup folder (you can paste this path in the explorer addressbar, it's valid) or in the C:\Program Files\Autodesk\3ds Max 2017\stdplugs\stdscripts folder if you want to be able to add it to your custom modifier set.

OccultMonk

Ok thanks. But can't you make a installer (.mzp file) that automatically places those files in the C:\Program Files\Autodesk\3ds Max 2017\stdplugs\stdscripts folder? When I update or re-install I need to install many scripts and a more uniform installation process would work better.

Swordslayer

The thing is, stdplugs is located in program files folder and in newer windows versions only user with admin rights can copy files there - the mzp installer would fail trying to access the folder unless you were running the max as admin or unlocked the max root folder for write access beforehands. It would have to be an .exe/.msi installer that asks for access rights at the beginning and that feels like an overkill for a single file...

OccultMonk

Ok, I understand. Thanks.

Cathodeus

@SwordSlayer Will you start the new chamfering modifier ? Or not ? Any hope ?

Swordslayer

@Cathodeus Yeah, time and energy are the biggest constraints right now, I'm kinda slacking off at the moment...

musashidan

@Swordslayer great work on this, mate. I'd love to test it out but, I'm very tired at the moment and my brain won't co-operate..........which link do I use to test on 2016/2017 .MS version?

Sorry if this is an annoying question.........brain not fully functioning....

Swordslayer

@musashidan no worries, you can pick either the standar max chamfer version or the quadChamfer version at http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/inset-by-smoothing-group it adds smooth modifier but in some cases you might want to turn it off or turn off its 'Prevent indirect smoothing', depends on the base mesh. You can read about the smoothing group requirements and other stuff on the scriptspot page.

kary

OccultMonk said:

The modifier works great, but it disappears from the modifier list after I restart 3dsmax (2017 SP3). So I have to install it every time. What am I doing wrong?

Did you put it in:  C:\Program Files\Autodesk\3ds Max 2017\stdplugs\stdscripts
not just in the scripts directory.

LaurentiuN

Great job mate, not many people do this for free, even if it were with $$ i would stil buy it. Thanks

ambelamba

Does similar script exist on Modo? It's a real hassle to add edge loops on every single corner manually.

Swordslayer

Finally found some time and made an InsetFix modifier which behaves like the max chamfer modifier when set to zero tension/one segment buf fixes some of the issues (mainly with irregular geometry):



The main reason for different handling of corners compared to the basic inset modifier is that diagonal edges created at corners distort the chamfer that's applied to it (so far, you still have to add a chamfer modifier for the bevel) - see the regular inset as a base (top) vs insetFix as a base (bottom):



As of now, it doesn't keep smoothing groups and doesn't select the 'crease' edges either - better treat it as a WIP and to see where I'm heading. I'm doing this in my free time and for free so I can't really tell when I will return to it and expand the feature set.

musashidan

ambelamba said:

Does similar script exist on Modo? It's a real hassle to add edge loops on every single corner manually.

Yes, I believe the vertex normals toolkit can do it. it selects based on hard edges threshold as in Max.

Cathodeus

Hello,

@Swordslayer I have tested your tool for a couple of days and it's quiete good. The only feedback i have is that it doesn't seems to work with open edges. So before applying the fixinset i need to close my model [cap poly]. If this can be fixed that would be definitly a solid solution.

Swordslayer

@Cathodeus thanks for feedback, open edges are indeed not handled when they meet a SG border. I will fix that as soon as I find some time

Swordslayer

@Cathodeus  I've updated the script, it should now work with open edges. 

Cathodeus

Thanks Man !

musashidan

@Swordslayer firstly, thanks for all your work on this. I finally had a chance to test it using the latest link. I tested it directly against(beside) Polyhertz's script and got some very weird topology. As you can see below, yours left a lot of n-gons; whereas PH's is clean with no n-gons.

Both scripts were ran default on the same mesh with the same inset/chamfer settings. Any ideas what's going on?

Cathodeus

@musashidan : That is, probably,  how you set your stack in fact it's probably related to "prevent indirect smoothing' otherwise sword slayer script is really solid.
I did the same shape than your and it's pretty clean by my side.

musashidan

@Cathodeus yes, that's how the stack is when you add the mod. I'm asking about the topology. Prevent indirect smoothing is related to the surface shading. I just wondered if I'm missing something obvious?

Cathodeus

@musashidan I personnaly don't use the 'InsetFixChamferStack' anymore and prefer using the 'insetSGfix' modifier with 'chamfer' because 'InsetFixChamferStack" do add a 'smooth' modifier with 'prevent indirect smoothing' set to 'active'  --> This can change the way you set your 'smooth grp' at the 'editable poly' level and add chamfer to strange places ... I prefer having the full control myself and making my own stack. [Instead of asking @swordslayer to add the 'prevent indirect smoothing' boolean as an option on the top most modifier.

Cathodeus

@musashidan The topology is generated base on the surface properties 'aka smooth grp' if smooth grp are not realisctly set than we can get strange result. One hard edge = one chamfer ... and max do hallow user to add an hard edge on planar polys ... Wich in the real worl is not possible

Swordslayer

The Smooth modifier is below everything and drives the smoothing groups that the insetFix modifier uses to determine the borders - as Cathodeus said, Prevent indirect smoothing can in some cases add additional smoothing groups and as a result, you will get 'borders' in places where you wouldn't expect them. That's also the reason why the Smooth modifier is turned off by default - you are encouraged to handle the SGs yourself.

As for the inner corners, I opted for a dirtier topology when the chamfer modifier is applied to the edge selection - the reason is to avoid pinching in those corners (the sharp top 'triangle' in the green circle). Also, you don't need inset that big when the chamfer value is small, the red line indicates what I'd use.



You are probably used to bump it up because of the inconsistent radius that is different on corners where more edges meet when doing simple insets (see picture below) but the radius is consistent with insetFix, I promise (that's also the reason for the Fix in the name).

Swordslayer

Cathodeus said:

 I prefer having the full control myself and making my own stack. [Instead of asking @swordslayer to add the 'prevent indirect smoothing' boolean as an option on the top most modifier.

Too late, just added it Automated solutions like this come with many caveats, though. At the beginning, I added the stacking modifier as an example of how to use that, so better treat it like that.  Especially because both the max chamfer modifier and smooth modifier come with their own set of quirks.

musashidan

@Swordslayer @Cathodeus Thanks for the explanation, lads. Working as expected now. This is great! Having the inset operation in the stack is gold. Thanks again.

Swordslayer

@musashidan You might also want to try seeing if the Edge Selection option in chamfer modifier is useful for you - the modifier also selects an additional edge in the inner corner for a smoother chamfer, but the chamfer modifier in a general case generates uglier topology connecting to it.

musashidan

Thanks, @Swordslayer , I'll keep it n mind.

Synaesthesia

Did you update the quad chamfer version as well?

Swordslayer

I didn't. Will do if you tell me what are the parameter values (same maxscript listener listing as the last time) when quad chamfer is set to use edge selection instead of smoothing groups.

Synaesthesia

http://pastebin.com/2DzuQpSr

Swordslayer

Thank you, here's the edited file - could you try it and report if it works (as expected/at all)?

Synaesthesia

I get "-- No "map" function for undefined", but the stack is created.

I also get "Unknown property: "initInsetVerts" in undefined"

Swordslayer

Could you post a screenshot + full stack trace (basically anything that gets output to the listener)?

Synaesthesia

A full stack trace? What do I need to type for that?

Swordslayer

It should already be there after the last error, it usually looks like this:



(the top part, the bottom shows the maxscript editor that highlights the line where the error occured). It's more wordy since max 2017 but you get the idea.

Scruples

Works here without any issue, max 2016 sp2. It's really beautiful, thanks @Swordslayer !

shogunato

Works like a charm (max2016 sp3). Exellent work thank you !

Synaesthesia

Oddly enough, I can't reproduce the error anymore. I'll let you know if it comes back though, cheers!

Swordslayer

Note that you might still want to use the regular inset by smoothing group if working on complex models - for a few primitives combined together, the insetFix performance is good and the resulting mesh is better (constant radius, better inner corner handling) but it's too slow for complex meshes.

musashidan

@Swordslayer , I've lost track of how many versions there are now! The one I'm using adds the insetsgfix mod and the insetfixchamferstack mod. Is this the latest? Thanks again for this, it's wonderful.

Swordslayer

@musashidan yes, and because it does all sorts of checks to find out where to inserts the support edges, big scary meshes will kill the performance The inset-by-SG-and do nothing else version (without Fix in its name) works okayish even on those complex meshes, yet the chamfered radius will get smaller on corners (just like with Polyhertz's script) so that's a trade-off to take into consideration.

I was thinking of making the Fix optional so that the insetSGFix would be in this 'preview mode' by default and you'd only turn on the fix at the end (when you're ready to collapse the stack) but so far nobody complained about performance and it would make it more complicated, so I instead released a different version that always behaves as expected and put this disclaimer in place instead.

Justo

Haha oh boy, so many scripts to choose from! Excellent job swordslayer, you are amazing for doing this and sharing. Everything is 2016+, right? Nothing for 2015? There are a bunch of scripts in the scripspot page, and some others here which you can download. Where are the latest updated ones, or do both sites offer unique versions? 

Swordslayer

Yes, everything is 2016+

OccultMonk

Swordslayer said:

I was thinking of making the Fix optional so that the insetSGFix would be in this 'preview mode' by default and you'd only turn on the fix at the end (when you're ready to collapse the stack) but so far nobody complained about performance and it would make it more complicated, so I instead released a different version that always behaves as expected and put this disclaimer in place instead.

That seems like a great idea! One single modifier would be better since you already have different stacks for quadchamfer or the regular chamfer modifier. You could even merge those so there is only one modifier with multiple options. It would make it much clearer and conversion between them easier. (check if someone has quadchamfer installed maybe?) 

Swordslayer

What are the differences between quadchamfer and max chamfer in this scenario, can anyone using it say/show? Would you always want to use quadchamfer by default, or is there maybe some reason for you to want to use max chamfer instead?

OccultMonk

I thought quad chamfer modifier gave better results? The default max chamfer modifier has the advantage of being build in. With most new releases of 3dsmax the modifier has to be recompiled. Therefore  scenes will stop working in new 3dsmax once support for quadchamfer stops. 

poopipe

The important part of all this is inset by smooth  group.  To be honest I'd worry less about building stacks and stick to that. 

Swordslayer .. can I ask what you're doing to manage inset overlaps? I've been looking at various algorithms but I've not seen anything that isn't inherently slow or immediately suited to working in 3d.  I've not tried your script as I'm not using 2016 

re the 2015 questions : as I believe swordslayer has said previously, you can't do this in a modifier in 2015 due to limitations in the system. 

musashidan

@OccultMonk the Quad Chamfer plugin was incorporated into Max's Chamfer mod several years ago, so they are pretty much one and the same.

OccultMonk

I know Quad Chamfer was added to 3dsmax, but that is not the plugin I meant: http://www.mariussilaghi.com/products/quad-chamfer-modifier