Is Gnomon Workshop full year subscription worth it?

TheKlu

I'm about getting it, I'm planning on mastering some topics of art, (from drawing to sculpture)
And I'm not sure if i will need a whole year for all the things I want, probably less. Because there is a lack of some topics inside sculpture and others. Wouldn't it be better to start with Gnomon, and maybe later get other tutorials, from Gumroad, Digital Tutors, 3D Motive or wherever?
Because maybe I could save like 100$...
What do you think, guys?

TheKlu

theCrimelord said:

Well, I didn't subscribe to Gnomon Workshop (Yet) because I'm already subscribed to Pluralsight (Digital Tutors) and I did it recently. But I am planning to subscribe to Gnomon Workshop later on, but the reason I didn't do it now is because I just found more content/tutorials to be there on Pluralsight than Gnomon and I don't think that's a secret.
So let me ask you this..
Why do you want to go yearly just yet?
First of all, it depends on what you're wanting to learn,
For an example, in my case, I'm going for 3D Modeling = Character Art
That too, I'm using 3ds Max right now, and would stick to using it for quite some time before learning another program such as Maya. So based on what you want to learn and in what program, do some research on both websites about how many tutorials are there, and what's your goal? how many tutorials are you going to follow.
See, lets say Pluralsight has 500 tutorials on Modeling
Now that's a good amount but if you filter it down to what YOU want to learn, it'll be a lot less,
So now I say I want to only go through the tutorials that are there for 3ds Max, I'll get like 200 tutorials or 150, because its obvious, 3ds Max tutorials are less in quantity compared to Maya, so there I have it, now I want to only learn Character Art and not Environment/Hard Surface etc. in the end I'll get 30-40 tutorials that are good, and not all of them are going to be full character modeling ones, some of them will be just about topologizing etc.
Now it'll also depend on your skill level, there are beginner tutorials then there are intermediate ones and then advanced, if you already have some good amount of knowledge and you want to skip some of the beginner ones, you'll get even less tutorials to work with.
So yeah, I don't see any point of going yearly with something, go with monthly subscription if you want to, and choose the one that has more tutorials for your skill level. Use that search option on those sites and look for exactly what do you want and ask yourself about what's worth the amount that you're paying because you're paying in Advance! which means you'll be stuck with it for a year. At least for the monthly subscription, by the time you're done taking lessons that you wanted, you can cancel it so that it doesn't charge you again.

Okay, thanks you very much, really appreciated!
I will do that

TheKlu

@theCrimelord
Yeah I will try both, thanks ^^

ZacD

Gumroad is also a great and typically cheap option. You can definitely learn how to do pretty much anything without using paid tutorials, but I do find paid tutorials are useful for learning a new application or getting a good insight at a particular professional's workflow. 

Zack Maxwell

You should keep in mind that Pluralsight (DigitalTutors) tutorials are wildly low-quality, and only useful for learning the very basics of software.

I cannot recall a tutorial series on there in which I was not screaming "What are you doing!" every couple minutes.

Stuff like taking 10 steps to hack their way around something that only takes one step, because they didn't know the proper method existed. Or making an insane mistake that would bite them later in the workflow.

AtticusMars

Eh I think that's a little unfair. I'd say the quality of the tutorials varies wildly but when you record your entire modeling process you're bound to do things inefficiently no matter how experienced you are.

Grimwolf said:

Or making an insane mistake that would bite them later in the workflow.

I once watched a professional character artist who'd worked on AAA titles put a long spiraling edgeloop down a characters leg in a tutorial. I don't think they realized it until the unwrapping stage when they couldn't put a clean straight UV seam, but by then their options were basically to keep going or scrap a huge chunk of the video and start over.

Mistakes happen, and even when they don't, artists rarely work in the most efficient way possible. Mostly they just work according to their own personal habits, and if they know they're wrong they'll try to instill optimal habits in people without actually following their own advice. Hence the phrase "Do as I say, not as I do."

Record your entire workflow, start to finish on a 20-40 hour asset and I guarantee you it will be full of mistakes and things you could have done better.

Zack Maxwell

AtticusMars said:

Eh I think that's a little unfair. I'd say the quality of the tutorials varies wildly but when you record your entire modeling process you're bound to do things inefficiently no matter how experienced you are.

Grimwolf said:

Or making an insane mistake that would bite them later in the workflow.

I once watched a professional character artist who'd worked on AAA titles put a long spiraling edgeloop down a characters leg in a tutorial. I don't think they realized it until the unwrapping stage when they couldn't put a clean straight UV seam, but by then their options were basically to keep going or scrap a huge chunk of the video and start over.

Mistakes happen, and even when they don't, artists rarely work in the most efficient way possible. Mostly they just work according to their own personal habits, and if they know they're wrong they'll try to instill optimal habits in people without actually following their own advice. Hence the phrase "Do as I say, not as I do."

Record your entire workflow, start to finish on a 20-40 hour asset and I guarantee you it will be full of mistakes and things you could have done better.

I'm comparing them against other sites, though. A lot of people I follow on youtube that put out free tutorials are less prone to issues than Digital Tutors.
I'm not making this statement inside of a bubble. These issues I have with it are relative to other tutorials.

Brian "Panda" Choi

I want to personally vouch for 3Dmotive.  Talk about quality, they make some top notch stuff yo.

Zack Maxwell

Brian "Panda" Choi said:

I want to personally vouch for 3Dmotive.  Talk about quality, they make some top notch stuff yo.

They are good. Among the reasonably priced options, they might be my favorite. Subscription has limited value though, since they don't put out videos very often and have a relatively small backlog. Unless you want to subscribe for a month and binge through what they already have, I'd recommend just buying the videos individually.

They also lack a strong focus on a particular set of tools on top of the relatively small number of videos, which reduces the options further. They can go months at a time without releasing a video that is actually relevant to you.

They seem to use ZBrush/Maya/Photoshop more than anything else, but they could easily put out 2-3 3DS Max or Blender videos in a row.

No Modo either, which makes me sad.

They also have a very bad habit of creating new videos that re-cover videos they already have. As an example, they literally have 3 different ZBrush tutorial series sculpting Lovecraftian monsters.

They've even been adding a number of 2D drawing tutorials lately, which is about as far off-course from their normal stuff as you can get. The site has 3D right in the name!

PixelMasher

Personally any time I have subed to a website like digital tutors or lynda, its just information overload and you end up dabbling in everything, and this leads to an extreme lack of focus. I would say set a goal and objective for what you want to learn, environments, characters etc and then perhaps subscribe for a single month, watch only highly specific tutorials on that subject to learn some techniques, then cancel your subscription and get to work.

Once you have watched a couple modeling tutorials you should be good. sitting there for hours watching tutorials just leaves diminishing returns after a certain point. get the basics down and start pumping out work. You will improve much faster this way than spending hours watching others model.

When you are starting out and learning it is easy to want to consume information from as many sources as possible, but learning when to filter it and when to cut information overload is a key component of those who want to learn and improve quickly. learning 20 ways to chamfer a scifi wall panel is going to be a total waste of time when learning 1 should suffice in 99% of most situations. 

Take the Tim Ferriss approach and learn the 20% of techniques and workflow that is going to give you consistently good results 80% of the time. read about the 80/20 principle for more on that. This is the key to getting really good, really quickly.

Avoid the trap I see most students falling into of thinking there is going to be some super secret trick that instantly makes you better and if only you watch 50 hours of tutorials then you will be prepared to start on your portfolio. There is no secret sauce, the really good artists out there got that way by consistently producing work and more importantly, finishing projects. and all that comes down to is simply putting in the hours and allocating time wisely.

tl;dr......don't burden yourself with a year subscription when 90% of the content on gnomon is probably not relevant to the specific position you wish to attain in the industry. 

TheKlu

PixelMasher said:

Personally any time I have subed to a website like digital tutors or lynda, its just information overload and you end up dabbling in everything, and this leads to an extreme lack of focus. I would say set a goal and objective for what you want to learn, environments, characters etc and then perhaps subscribe for a single month, watch only highly specific tutorials on that subject to learn some techniques, then cancel your subscription and get to work.

Once you have watched a couple modeling tutorials you should be good. sitting there for hours watching tutorials just leaves diminishing returns after a certain point. get the basics down and start pumping out work. You will improve much faster this way than spending hours watching others model.

When you are starting out and learning it is easy to want to consume information from as many sources as possible, but learning when to filter it and when to cut information overload is a key component of those who want to learn and improve quickly. learning 20 ways to chamfer a scifi wall panel is going to be a total waste of time when learning 1 should suffice in 99% of most situations. 

Take the Tim Ferriss approach and learn the 20% of techniques and workflow that is going to give you consistently good results 80% of the time. read about the 80/20 principle for more on that. This is the key to getting really good, really quickly.

Avoid the trap I see most students falling into of thinking there is going to be some super secret trick that instantly makes you better and if only you watch 50 hours of tutorials then you will be prepared to start on your portfolio. There is no secret sauce, the really good artists out there got that way by consistently producing work and more importantly, finishing projects. and all that comes down to is simply putting in the hours and allocating time wisely.

tl;dr......don't burden yourself with a year subscription when 90% of the content on gnomon is probably not relevant to the specific position you wish to attain in the industry. 

That's awesome! Thanks for all that information, really helpful!

Zack Maxwell

I agree. I've learned more from a month of actually tackling a project than a year of tutorials.

McGreed

Yep, that's what I prefer for learning something new, the concept of Learning by Doing. Sure you need some base information, but doing stuff teach you more as well develops your 'muscle memory' for 3D.

ZacD

Once I understand how a program works, I definitely prefer a wiki, images, or a 2 minute youtube video.

nikola3d

In my opinion, a better solution would be to find/buy tutorials that you need most, instead subscribing to Gnomon where have variety and so much outdated tuts. 
I don't know if you have any other benefits beside tutorials but I still would not go that way.
Other thing (and more effective) is to learn on your own.
Find help on any free source and let that be your basic thing, experiment, try new things, combine. You will not only gain knowledge about specific thing, you will also understand it how it works and how it can behave. Proven to be best type of learning

Biomag

At work we had a Digital Tutors subscription so I had a (short) chance to take a look at it. It has a huge library, but actually the overall quality didn't impress me. The substance painter tutorial wasn't even more informative than the free one Allegorithmic offers. Also from the look I think you can find a lot of that quality for free on youtube. There might be some gems within their library, but because of its size they are hard to find.

Looking at Gumroad tutorials from Rafel Grassetti, Frank Tzeng or for example Tim Bergholz as well a couple of guys that offer free tutorials for basic applications I think the the general advice that people gave you here is really good. Pick your specialization, grab free tutorials and buy a few on Gumroad that really are spot on for your needs and move from there.

I would rather save the money that those tutorial libraries would cost you for courses (Gnomon, CGMA,..) once you have the basics. There you get not only the lecture, but also quality feedback.

TheKlu

Biomag said:

At work we had a Digital Tutors subscription so I had a (short) chance to take a look at it. It has a huge library, but actually the overall quality didn't impress me. The substance painter tutorial wasn't even more informative than the free one Allegorithmic offers. Also from the look I think you can find a lot of that quality for free on youtube. There might be some gems within their library, but because of its size they are hard to find.

Looking at Gumroad tutorials from Rafel Grassetti, Frank Tzeng or for example Tim Bergholz as well a couple of guys that offer free tutorials for basic applications I think the the general advice that people gave you here is really good. Pick your specialization, grab free tutorials and buy a few on Gumroad that really are spot on for your needs and move from there.

I would rather save the money that those tutorial libraries would cost you for courses (Gnomon, CGMA,..) once you have the basics. There you get not only the lecture, but also quality feedback.

Thanks! The last thing you said is actually really great!

JLeeD

Last year I took a months subscription to Gnomon and the main thing I got from it was inspiration. I went into it with a really specific thing I wanted to learn and one of my favorite artist, Neville Page, had quite a few tutorials up there. My work really improved but mainly because I was getting my head down and I was really excited to try out the things I'd learned. I would say though that I didn't use up my subscription to its fullest, but I really don't regret getting it. 
Before you get one, like others have said up here, make sure that there isn't already a free tutorial for what you want to learn. A lot of the tutorials on Gnomon are quite outdated, however the methods and techniques are still applicable Also, with it being so overwhelming with so much to watch and learn, go in with one person or one thing you're really wanting to watch. I would personally say that a years subscription probably isn't necessary, and spending your money on a wider variety like gumroad tutorials would probably pay off a lot more.
As a fellow learner, I bid you good luck, and to fail faster! Best way to learn  

Finalhart

I have only watched some tutorials from Gnomon and i must say the knowledge these artists give is invaluable. They have some really modern techniques and give a lot of insights. For me it's worth it if what you are looking for are not foundamentals but get your pieces to a new level of polish. Also watching from my phone is a selling point for me, don't like to sit in the computer all day and I can watch them whenever I want, even if it's just for 15 minutes. I would make a plan of what tutorials I would like to see and if there are enough then I would buy the annual subscription. Also new tutorials are released from time to time, there is always something to learn!

miguelnarayan

Just commit to a smaller subscription instead of a 1 year, if you like it then go ahead.
Digitaltutors is made towards those who are complete beginners, Gnomon is more towards mid to advanced artists looking to power up and go pro... at least the way I see it.

Gnomon has the best legendary artists tutoring on their DVDs, Scott Robertson, Syd Mead... you really can't compete with those guys. I've seen amazing artists made their career with a subscription there, but it'll all depend on what you invest (time and effort practicing the homework) on it.

CreativeSheep

Personally any time I have subed to a website like digital tutors or lynda, its just information overload and you end up dabbling in everything, and this leads to an extreme lack of focus. I would say set a goal and objective for what you want to learn, environments, characters etc and then perhaps subscribe for a single month, watch only highly specific tutorials on that subject to learn some techniques, then cancel your subscription and get to work.

Once you have watched a couple modeling tutorials you should be good. sitting there for hours watching tutorials just leaves diminishing returns after a certain point. get the basics down and start pumping out work. You will improve much faster this way than spending hours watching others model.

When you are starting out and learning it is easy to want to consume information from as many sources as possible, but learning when to filter it and when to cut information overload is a key component of those who want to learn and improve quickly. learning 20 ways to chamfer a scifi wall panel is going to be a total waste of time when learning 1 should suffice in 99% of most situations. 

Take the Tim Ferriss approach and learn the 20% of techniques and workflow that is going to give you consistently good results 80% of the time. read about the 80/20 principle for more on that. This is the key to getting really good, really quickly.

Avoid the trap I see most students falling into of thinking there is going to be some super secret trick that instantly makes you better and if only you watch 50 hours of tutorials then you will be prepared to start on your portfolio. There is no secret sauce, the really good artists out there got that way by consistently producing work and more importantly, finishing projects. and all that comes down to is simply putting in the hours and allocating time wisely.

tl;dr......don't burden yourself with a year subscription when 90% of the content on gnomon is probably not relevant to the specific position you wish to attain in the industry. 

I agree, except I've watched five tutorials on one subject and out of five, three I'll end up walking away with no return and only two that jump start into practice. Sometimes you have to watch alot of tutorials on a subject before you can begin.

I've bought many tutorials which may take me a year or so to complete while understanding what is being taught.  I sometimes buy tutorials, then watch down the road although lately I might have to really slow things down

One thing you need to learn and watch all tutorials as in (5) tutorials on hard surface (yes I've watched five tutorials on Hardsurface modeling) modeling for example, is something that can't be bought; Time.

Michael_Ingrassia

What are the main complaints or disappointments you guys are finding in online training tutorials? I currently provide training for Lynda.com and have recently become an authorized instructor for Pluralsight, but am considering producing my own platform of training because Lynda and Digital Tutors have too many corporate policies, poor royalty payments and overall a disconnect with the hard core artists' needs.

Also would you all agree that if your tutorials came with a companion courseware ebook and Skype connection with a LIVE instructor to assist in answering questions or helping you troubleshoot, that the courses would be more valuable and conducive toward learning?

**PS: If anyone here is interested in possibly becoming a beta tester on my new workshops I'm considering rolling out, please PM me so I can connect with you privately.