Should I learn to sculpt as a Hard Surface guy?

fdfxd2

not a huge fan of sculpting

I got by with traditional  polymodelling for a while now.

But a large amount of artists seem to use zbrush for hardsurface modelling
But then I came across this post

So... is it really a necessary skill or is it just fluff?

PyrZern

• Your mesh is a polygon soup. This means that all the tools and approaches built around topology go right out the window. You'll be going back in time, before nendo/mirai, more than a decade back. In a polygon app you just select an edge and chamfer, or move it. In zbrush... holy mother of Hodor, I'll just trail off with dots here like Joe did...

Don't use Dynamesh. Use the lowpoly. Use Zmodeler. No need to use SubDiv until you build everything already. Then go up in subdiv lv, and add details.

You have to rely on either knowing exactly what you want in every way before you even start, or using obscure layer-based workflows to allow for changes. When your AD asks you to "move that bit to the left, please" with polygons, it's a 2-second job; in zbrush you'll suffer an emotional breakdown from the stress.

If use follow the above, it's the same thing.

With poly modeling you get the lowpoly for free. Just collapse and remove some edges. In zbrush you'll have to do this from scratch. Using retopo tools for hard-surface is typically a bad idea, so essentially you have to make a polygon model anyway. Since you're making a polygon model in the first place, what did you gain by using zbrush? There's barely any difference between a lowpoly and a hipoly blockout. So, you just completely invalidated any advantage you thought there might be to using a sculpting app.

Once you have build the lowpoly, then you can start subdiv and add more details. When you're done; you could just use the lowest subdiv level.

You might logic out that there's a lot of real-world physical hard-surface jobs that are done manually, like in zbrush. I've heard that argument; if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for us. First off, your throughput time is just a fraction of theirs, and almost all those jobs are actually done on computers these days.

Don't care. No difference here.

Accuracy. Polygon modeling allows you to move a corner a specific amount of units with ease. In zbrush.. well there's not even any concept of "corner", it's just a polygon soup, remember? There's no structure, just a ton of quads.

Zbrush is lacking precise accuracy, yes. ZModeler make use of corner, though.

Tools. Over the years, countless tools have been made for polygon modeling by all sorts of different parties. Tools are ported across apps. There's such an enormous market for it. Zbrush can't catch up with that.

Correct.

At 3Point we pay a lot of attention to edge definition. A model can be taken from looking noobish to looking pro/realistic just by redefining edges. This is a quick job with polygon modeling. In Zbrush you don't have any control. What are you going to do, manually use the smooth-brush on a separate layer? I'm sure there will eventually be tools to operate on edges (detected by angle and such), but it will still just be playing catch-up with polygon modeling.

While I believe correct, Zmodeler still offers a lot.

Look again at the cool hard-surface zbrush models out there. Notice something? They're made to accommodate zbrush. The shapes are all shapes that are easy to do in Zbrush. Now, in a professional environment you don't have that luxury. You have to model what's in the concept. You can't skip a part just because it's near impossible to make it in Zbrush. It's not enough to make a simple base and then only fill in detail on the surface-level like with so many of the good-looking zbrush models out there.

Zmodeler can do quite a lot... Or you can just make something in Maya and import. Or vice versa.

Pipeline: Your mesh is now locked to zbrush. A polygon cage model can be exported to and subdivided in any 3d software. The data is very easy to manage and process. Anyone can step in and edit it, no matter which app they use.

If you focus on making the lowpoly first, then it's not LOCKED in zbrush.

OK, that's enough of this silliness.

TLDR; Zbrush is one of the tools. There are many ways to use it. And there are other alternatives. Personally, the more tools you can use; the better.

Aabel

That post from Perna is from 4 years ago, things have changed a lot during that time.  Perna's criticism of the zbrush "hard surface" workflow in 2012 is on point. However that's a workflow that thankfully isn't used anymore.

Do you need sculpting today for hard surfaces? probably not as your work horse where you spend most of your time, but it can help with small details like weld seams, gouges, scratches, denting etc. But some, maybe even all of that detail could also be done with Ndo or Substances.

EarthQuake

Yes, you should learn to sculpt if you're doing any sort of 3D modeling work in this day and age. Experiment and research to figure out which types of work are more efficient to do in a sculpting app.

Should you try to replace traditional sub-d/poly modeling with a sculpting app entirely? No. This is the context of Per's post.

R3D

Learning a new skillset will never hurt and can help you problem solve later on. I'd highly recommend learning how to sculpt.

JedTheKrampus

It's good for making welding seams happen easily if nothing else.