Arena Net Test Iguanamimus

Mitchellangelo

Hey everyone.  I'm now taking the test for Arena Net's creature artist intern position.  This is the first draft of my model.  I'm currently working on the secondary details (skin folds, eye sockets, claws, etc.)  Hopefully the silhouette looks good overall.  Please let me know if you think anything needs to be tweaked at this stage.  I can't do a good job on this model without your feedback.  Thanks.  

Mitchellangelo

Okay the piece must be perfect!  On to the next step.

pmiller001

There's not much to go on. Where's the reference for this? 

Mitchellangelo

Yay a living body!!  Here we go:
I was just a little bit hesitant at first, I wasn't sure I was allowed to.

Mitchellangelo

Hold that thought!!  I made some changes to his forms and decided that the previous topology images are not final.
I feel that now he looks more like the concept.

Alemja

I think you have a very nice start, the forms and volumes seem to match up very well with the concept. The next thing you should look into is gathering real-life reference of animals that are similar and getting the skin wrinkles and texture looking believable.

Mitchellangelo

Thank you Alemja.  The skin wrinkling is in the process, I should be able to post a complete image this weekend.  I've been looking at mostly iguana skin (cliche, I know ).

artofmars

I am getting a Chinese water dragon from vibe from this guy as well. It's a sleeker, faster lizard and could be a better reference for the musculature.  

Also try and make it so you can reuse those spikes to save on UV space.

pongstah

Marquee selecting the silhouette of the render and super imposing it on top of the concept if feel that the concept is more slender and less hunched over, more like lower to the ground ..stalking

Mitchellangelo

@artofmars, I guess I can see that water dragon vibe you see.  And of course, I intend to make it all part of the same UV space.  @pongstah, that's a good way to make sure everything is aligned properly.  

Mitchellangelo

Here is my latest update.  I've started creating the skin folds.  Hopefully I'm on the right track.  Please let me know if there is anything more I can add or just add clarity to.  My next step is to start adding scaling alpha details.

Steve Schulze

Looks like he's going pretty well.

It'd be worth grabbing some pictures of actual iguanas to see how the skin folds and wrinkles, particularly in the loose skin around the jaw and neck. There's some interesting looking folds that you can kind of see in the shadowed underside of the concept that'd definitely be worth working into your model.

Mitchellangelo

Thank you Steve, I will go back into that area.

Mitchellangelo

Okay, another update.  I've added scaly skin details.  Hopefully the textures look believable enough.  Once again, please let me know what needs to be improved on at this point.  Thanks.  

Alemja

Scales feel very uniform right now some of the structure on the face still seems a little soft as well. Take some time to define some major forms a little more and get some of those larger scales in there. Real life iguanas have some very interesting stuff going on around the face

Mitchellangelo

Thank you Alemja.  I'll be sure to go back to the face and add a little more of those iguana scale details.  Also, I will try to add some larger scales into the mix of his body.

Mitchellangelo

Okay, here is my next update.  Hopefully now I've broken up the uniformity of the scales on his skin.  The only part I worry about is the skin folds on his neck and torso.  Do you think anything looks overkill or underkill?

Mitchellangelo

I've began the process of painting him.  I feel that he's resembling the concept design pretty well, but for some reason his body is coming out a little muddy.  Although I think his face is coming out.  An AO map will be baked and I still need to flesh out the churoscuro on his feet.  Do you have any suggestions on making his body, or his face, less muddy?

codyaq2

Looking good
I feel it needs more subtle colour and value variations, if i squint my eyes to blur the image, all im seeing is a bright green back and a dark shade of green for the neck/head/chest
I feel like areas need to pop more.

TheKlu

Looking really nice!
The darker parts look very odd for me.
And personally I think that the parts I've selected should have some time of transitions. The transition in model is great, but in color is weird.

Mitchellangelo

YES!!  Thank you guys so much.  @codyaq2: I figured that might be part of it.  I thought about creating more pixelated transitions onto the opposite colors (a little green on white, a little white on green).  And trust me I do NOT like the darker head and neck, but I'm trying to stay loyal to the concept as much as possible.

Alemja

On the concept I could have swore the darker part is a shadow, bit of an interesting design choice if its actually darker skin.

artofmars

I feel like the major forms of the face need a second look. They feel a little undefined still like Alemja said earlier. That may be why the darker areas are looking muddier.

Mitchellangelo

Personally I really don't like the darker skin on his face and neck.  And it can't be a shadow.  Why would the concept artist draw him with a shadow over his head?....

Mitchellangelo

Here is an update.  Hopefully now there's more variation other than solid green and solid dark brown.  I feel that I'm struggling with this step the most.  I just don't know what I'm missing.  Do you see any improvement at all in this update, or do you think I just made it worse?  

Mitchellangelo

Yay this paint job is perfect!! lol

Mitchellangelo

Here is my latest update.  I am now in the rendering stage.  Please let me know if anything needs to be tweaked with these renders.  Thanks.

Alemja

What are you rendering in?
Overall it looks rather ambient and materials could be tweaked a bit. Also I would add in a floor and have your lights cast an actual shadow instead of painting it in, it will help the model look more grounded

Mitchellangelo

I'm rendering in Marmoset.  I had trouble before with lighting on a floor plane, because you could clearly see the cone edge from the back light.  But I've changed the lighting now, so hopefully soon I'll have an update with a floor plane.

Mitchellangelo

By the way, what do you mean ambient?  Do you mean that it looks like he is only being lit by the environment?

TomGT

Cool work!

I agree with @Alemja about getting some rendered shadows in. Normally I do this by using a large flat colored plane, and then just photoshop it in to a background with the same color. You can mask your character for compositing pretty easily by using another render with transparency on.

I find the lighting could be improved. If you've got a three point lighting setup, it looks like the fill light might be a bit too strong towards the head. More contrast is needed around that area as it usually is the first thing people look at.

The key light could be focused on the head area more, fading out towards the tail. The concept art does this too if you look at it closely.

Hope that helps! 

Mitchellangelo

It does!  Thank you TomGT, I appreciate your feedback.  I'll do whatever it takes to make this creature look professional!

Alemja

Yes, but not only that, there aren't any strong shadows so it's kind of flattening the detail on your model.

Instead of a cone light you could try a directional light and modify the shape to soften the shadows.

Mitchellangelo

I understand.  I should have an update posted up here tonight.  I did some work yesterday on the scene

Mitchellangelo

Here is another lighting update.  Hopefully now he has more shadowing, and the face is more broadly lit.  I also gave him a ground plane to stand on.  Do you think the shadows (or the lighting on the plane) look a little awkward?

rohMizuno

Looking good! I do think the "soccer field" affect on the shadows look a bit weird, might be better to turn on shadows or add attenuation to secondary lights, also, making the key light a little wider to soften those shadows would help improving the look.
As for the textures, i dont know if too late for that, but I feel the under area of the lizard should be a lot darker, there might a reason why is there (maybe some disguising mechanism), so I am not sure if is a good idea to ignore it. And the eyes could be a bit smaller, it helps to make it less cute e more threatening.

Mitchellangelo

Those are good lighting suggestions.  I've also discovered a new problem.  If you'll look at this model in the viewer at https://www.artstation.com/embed/3624267, there's a seam between his front legs on his belly.  I've tried painting over it in Painter, but that didn't do anything:P

Mitchellangelo

Here's another update.  Luckily now the soccer field shadowing is gone.  Hopefully now it's not too faint though.  I had to turn off the shadows on the rim light, but it seems to have given him a little bit stronger shadows.

Mitchellangelo

Okay, I feel ready to submit this thing, and would you know it there's a seam on his belly.  You can just faintly see it.  I don't want to take a chance of the recruiters seeing this in a Marmoset Viewer.  I've tried painting over it on the Base Color channel in Painter, and I've tried changing the value of the Normal map bake in Painter.  Do you have any suggestions on how to make this bugger disappear?

pixelpatron

To fix seams on things in the past I load up textures individually to isolate which map is causing the issue. Then it's just a matter of painting it out depending on what map it is. (the spot healing brush in photoshop is awesome...)