I definitely agree with EQ, 4k is only worth it for massive TV/projector setups, large monitors on your desk, large tablets, or VR. 4k isn't needed for a standard living room or phones. But support 4k video/Netflix/Youtube/Bluray makes sense, Youtube and Netflix use a pretty low bit rate where a 1080p Bluray looks much better than a 1080p stream because of the bit rate, and you can't force Netflix or Youtube to use a higher bit rate unless you set it to 1440p or 4k. And just to give tech enthusiasts a way to use a console for home theater instead of buying a separate device.
In regards to no easy tv setup, For 49 bucks steam link is pretty easy to setup, and works like a charm over wired network, Kb, mouse, or controllers. It actually feels very slick.
That being said I love my ps4 for exclusives, that pc doesn't/won't get, even the order that someone bashed on earlier. No I wouldn't upgrade to a 4k (upscaling?) ps4. I don't think consoles are going anywhere based on it being a device the the masses, as the masses have varying financial means it makes sense that tiers of these devices will appear... Whatever sells
I agree with tits. PC vs console is so much more than just hardware. It's a completely different experience. Being able to -easily- play on your couch (Not everyone has their pc hooked to their tv. im talking about the masses here), or even in bed is why so many people love consoles. PC's have always been more powerful than consoles, yet consoles continue to sell, and sell well. They are easy to set up. They can be played in the comfort of your living room. You can easily take them to a friends house if need be. People already said consoles would fail this generation. Guess what... They didn't. They aren't going anywhere.
Again, Im talking about the masses. Not everyone on a pc has the tv setup. Not everyone wants to. It's easy to use a controller on a pc. Comfortable. But getting a good, simple setup that is also comfortable to use a keyboard and mouse in front of a tv is way harder.
well it probably would be a nice difference with 4k on my 70 inch tv but rather then 4k I rather they push up the anti aliasing slider or run all games at 60fps or more, some games doesn't even hit 30fps
No, they are telling devs not make special versions of the game, that only run on the 4.5. For instance, a version of Battlefield, for the PS4, with only 4 objectives, but on the PS4.5, it would have 6 objectives. 4k is a resolution, not content. PCs can run games at various resolutions. You don't see separate versions of games, when you buy them for the PC.
And yes, the other part is what @pior mentioned. They probably want the PS4.5 for a better VR experience. The framerate is a much bigger deal.
Honestly, I don't see why people are so negative about it. It's exactly what I've been disliking gamers lately. No matter what news comes out, what games are released, or (now) what hardware hits the market... everyone has to bitch, and tear it down. No one is required to buy this system, and it's not making the PS4 obsolete.
In all honesty, do you really not think that places like EA wouldn't package a 4K add-on dlc? The older game ships with say 2k texture maps, but with this DLC you can get all of the glory of 4k-8k texture maps to further enhance your 4k gaming experience. Surely you can only upscale original content so far on a 4k TV before it starts to break.
Sure, there is a lot of bitching in games. Most of it is pointless, but some of it is justified. So are consoles going the way of cell phones, upgrade every year now? Are you going to be able to lease your PS4.5 with a contract and in a year you can get the PS4.75? Isn't the whole point of the consoles to have the hardware for a decent amount of time and not have to constantly upgrade?
In a honest question. How are they are going to get decent 4k VR-ready support all packaged into a $400 system? The Rift needs to run at least 75 FPS to avoid extreme nausea right? Can you build a Rift ready PC for $400 or even $500? (Let's assume you are a big place like Sony and can buy all parts with huge bulk rates)
this thread is getting interesting. I wonder how many people in here get the latest iphone every year without fail. To me that is insanity, especially when the price tag is 2-3x that of a console, but every year there is lineups and people frantically trying to get one. paying for a console upgrade after you have had it and been having fun with it for a couple years doesn't bother me in the slightest, its optional and its not like it takes away from all the value you already got out of the console. keep in mind in most cases it's probably hundreds of hours of entertainment for only a few hundred dollars already that people have gotten out of the consoles.
VelvetElvis said: In all honesty, do you really not think that places like EA wouldn't package a 4K add-on dlc? The older game ships with say 2k texture maps, but with this DLC you can get all of the glory of 4k-8k texture maps to further enhance your 4k gaming experience. Surely you can only upscale original content so far on a 4k TV before it starts to break.
Sure, there is a lot of bitching in games. Most of it is pointless, but some of it is justified. So are consoles going the way of cell phones, upgrade every year now? Are you going to be able to lease your PS4.5 with a contract and in a year you can get the PS4.75? Isn't the whole point of the consoles to have the hardware for a decent amount of time and not have to constantly upgrade?
In a honest question. How are they are going to get decent 4k VR-ready support all packaged into a $400 system? The Rift needs to run at least 75 FPS to avoid extreme nausea right? Can you build a Rift ready PC for $400 or even $500? (Let's assume you are a big place like Sony and can buy all parts with huge bulk rates)
No, as much as I dislike EA, I do not believe they will offer a 4k DLC. At least not on new games. I can't say they won't offer some 'upgrade' or 4k editions, of current games, since they've obviously done that with PS3 games (HD versions for the PS4). Guess what... you don't have to buy it. I know I won't support it. I have bought some of the 'HD'/remastered games, because I did not own them originally, but I have not repurchased upgraded versions of games I already own.
My reference to VR is not for them to make a 4K VR. The point is, with the upgraded hardware, they can crank up the FPS, which is a key piece to VR, in preventing the user from getting nauseated (as you mentioned). The PS4 probably will not deliver 60FPS 1080, in the PSVR. That's where the PS4.5 comes in.
And yes, the point of consoles is consistent hardware. That consistency will still be there. It's not like a PC, where you have different bus designs, various manufacturers, and an abundance of other variations. They aren't changing manufacturers, and the architecture probably won't change. Hard to say, since Sony hasn't even announced it yet.
Again, these all seem like arguments being made out of anger, rather than logic. Something else to remember, it has been 3 years. It's not an annual thing, and even just recently, Sony suggested that there may not be a PS5.... though I feel like that's just to mess with people. My only issue is, they are just finally starting to get a catalog going, but again, it's not replacing the old system, only making it an upgraded option
Something else to add... people seem to suggest that upgrading the processing power, is going to somehow divide up the PS community/games, and they greatly oppose it. Yet, when the VR was announced, I saw excitement. Some may be hesitant (as am I), to see how well the VR sells, and received support, but why no anger/opposition over it? It will surely divide the market. VR only games are going to get released, which will prevent me from playing with friends who have a VR. Maybe I missed it, but I've read no complaints like I'm seeing for the PS4.5
Been rocking my s3 phone for the last 4 years. It still makes calls and I can read Reddit on the shitter. I feel no need to get a new phone every year or 2 years.
The reason why VR isn't getting that big of a backlash is that it's still early on in the hype cycle. The current generation of consoles are probably in the trough of disillusionment, which is why the hate.
Well dividing by the processing power border is one thing and rightfully would cause outrage. Releasing games SOLY for VR, which are made and build around the experience and would be plain pointless without and properly, i believe would cause way less outcry.
Been rocking my s3 phone for the last 4 years. It still makes calls and I can read Reddit on the shitter. I feel no need to get a new phone every year or 2 years.
The reason why VR isn't getting that big of a backlash is that it's still early on in the hype cycle. The current generation of consoles are probably in the trough of disillusionment, which is why the hate.
And that's fine, for you. Why should others not have the option, if they want to? I have the S7, and I'm glad I upgraded my S5, after 2 years. My S7 also allows me to use the Gear VR, which my S5 could not. Should I impose my opinions on others, and tell them to upgrade their phones? Or should I continue being glad that options exist, for those who want them?
As far as VR, if people are going to get outraged about the PS4.5, because they feel it will device the market, then they should be more outraged by the PSVR. The 'hype' should not be a blinder. I just proves my point that people are complaining just to complain
I don't see how this is a "middle generation" upgrade. Console generations have generally lasted 4-5 years. Quick wiki search shows respective console generation starting times. Gen 1 1972 (4 years), Gen 2 1976 (7 years), Gen 3 1983 (4 years), Gen 4 1987 (6 years), Gen 5 1993 (5 years), Gen 6 1998 (7 years), Gen 7 2005 (7 years), Gen 8 2012. So generation lengthwise Gen 8 is starting to reach it's end, if these new upgrades are considered to be an upgrade instead of a new generations then 8th console generation will most likely stretch out to be the longest console generation in gaming history.
Put me on the list of people upset that Sony isn't including 4k blu-ray support, on either system. Sony is also making some incredible mistakes lately, by increasing the price of PS+, and now these two consoles. The slim is offering almost NOTHING that the current system doesn't already provide. In theory, the 'slim' model usually results in lower production costs, yet they are charging $50 more than what the current system is selling for... oh, and they took out the optical port. It's barely even smaller, and actually looks worse than the current system.
The Pro, which I was really looking forward to, will offer a nice hardware bump, but I was also looking forward to watching my 4k blu-rays finally.... I do have a 4k TV, so I would benefit from the system, but honestly, right now, the games look great on my TV, with my current system. While I'll probably still get the system, I no longer feel a rush to buy it.... not to mention, it's an ugly box
Somehow, in all of this, MS is able to offer 4k blu-ray in their 'S' edition, which may result in me buying one, because it's cheaper than the current players out there. That puts the xbox system back into my home, and I wouldn't think that's part of Sony's plan.
Now PS+ is going to be $10/yr more, and while that's not a lot of money, they've done nothing to justify the cost. The servers are just as bad as ever (been down 3 times in the last few weeks). The PS+ games have been disappointing, to say the least.
I hate to say it, but I think MS has stepped up, and Sony didn't.
Really? It's to god damn hard to lug my TV or PC into the bathroom.
Then just a build a PC for your bathroom, everyone's doing it.
On a more serious note, people seem to be severely understating the accessibility of mobile gaming. A few months ago my dad messaged me about how he found a game on the app store that he actually enjoyed playing. This is the same guy that told me games would melt my brain if I played them for longer than 2 hours when I was 4, heh.
If anything, new hardware will result in new tools for content creation. It goes like this... "well, the new hardware is really powerful, but nobody needs it..." "anyway, let's fill it with content. Lots of content. Because we can! Let's go!" "Damn, producing this content gets expensive. There's just so much HDD space / screen space / bandwith to fill. We can't do it the old way. We need to work smarter..."
And then people come up with awesome tools like Substance. We've seen this with the current gen consoles. There are still limitations, but the amount of content these days is more limited by budget rather than hardware. It's got to be more content at higher fidelity created in even shorter time.
From a consumer perspective, I don't buy mid-gen hardware. I'm always an early adopter. I never upgrade unless I've burnt out my console and have no choice. I mostly jump from one initial offering to the next. I might miss out on a few mid-gen exclusive games, but there usually aren't as many of those as you'd think.
That said, even though I buy just about every console and handheld, I tend to do most of my gaming on PCs these days. The convenience of Steam has kinda enticed me to set my consoles to the side unless there's a compelling console only exclusive to pry me away from my mouse/keyboard.
I do a little bit of gaming on tablet/mobile, but mostly BS casual stuff like Farmville that I can occasionally play while watching TV. Not too into tablets for gaming, tbh. I prefer a good controller or keyboard/mouse combo. Tablet games usually don't offer a whole lot of depth. Not digging the micro transaction heavy nature of many tablet games.
My next console purchases will probably be the Nintendo NX and whatever next gen offering Sony & MS offer up after they tire of their mid-gen pacifiers.
RE: 4K gaming... Not worth it to me atm. I'm more interested in stuff that'll improve the actual game playing experience. Visuals are a secondary issue for me. You could only convince me to get a 4K monitor or TV if there were some killer app or lots of programming content started getting filmed/delivered in 4K. For now, at least for a few more years, I don't see a compelling reason to go beyond 1080p. 2K and 4K are mostly just bragging points, imo. Great tomorrow? Yeah. A gimmick or limited use option today though.
no one is safe from the spirit of pc vs console wars... not even in polycount. Welp I thought everyone would be happy since we don't have to be that weary of our polycounts and texture sizes anymore
and yeah... 4k is just a gimmick tbh I don't know who asked for it but it always was something that salty pc users just tried to keep reminding console owners that they don't have... as if it's significant in any way
I thought everyone would be happy since we don't have to be that weary of our polycounts and texture sizes anymore
I dont think thats how it works. The actual assets will still most likely have to have the same poly budgets and texture budgets as the standard ps4 can handle, as the game still needs to run well on a standard ps4. Maybe on pro we would get better shaders or more stuff in the background eg now we can use more high lods at greater distances or now we can have bigger background crowds or maybe the studio would choose to make a higher quality lod of the main characters just for the pro but I doubt it as most players probably wont buy a pro device.
I might be a bit jaded but I dont believe any current gen ps4 game would run well in 4k on the ps4 pro without actually making some graphical sacrifces, I just dont believe the ps4 pro could be that powerful, even some of the most powerful pcs struggle to run games well at 4k these days. I dont mind being proven wrong though, that would be impressive.
4k is just part of what these new systems will provide, but I think people are getting distracted by the 4k discussions. The system offers extra processing, which also smooths out framerates, and should make the system feel smoother... Not that the old system is clunky, but my ps4 responsiveness has dropped noticeably, over the past year
Replies
Sure, there is a lot of bitching in games. Most of it is pointless, but some of it is justified. So are consoles going the way of cell phones, upgrade every year now? Are you going to be able to lease your PS4.5 with a contract and in a year you can get the PS4.75? Isn't the whole point of the consoles to have the hardware for a decent amount of time and not have to constantly upgrade?
In a honest question. How are they are going to get decent 4k VR-ready support all packaged into a $400 system? The Rift needs to run at least 75 FPS to avoid extreme nausea right? Can you build a Rift ready PC for $400 or even $500? (Let's assume you are a big place like Sony and can buy all parts with huge bulk rates)
My reference to VR is not for them to make a 4K VR. The point is, with the upgraded hardware, they can crank up the FPS, which is a key piece to VR, in preventing the user from getting nauseated (as you mentioned). The PS4 probably will not deliver 60FPS 1080, in the PSVR. That's where the PS4.5 comes in.
And yes, the point of consoles is consistent hardware. That consistency will still be there. It's not like a PC, where you have different bus designs, various manufacturers, and an abundance of other variations. They aren't changing manufacturers, and the architecture probably won't change. Hard to say, since Sony hasn't even announced it yet.
Again, these all seem like arguments being made out of anger, rather than logic. Something else to remember, it has been 3 years. It's not an annual thing, and even just recently, Sony suggested that there may not be a PS5.... though I feel like that's just to mess with people. My only issue is, they are just finally starting to get a catalog going, but again, it's not replacing the old system, only making it an upgraded option
The reason why VR isn't getting that big of a backlash is that it's still early on in the hype cycle. The current generation of consoles are probably in the trough of disillusionment, which is why the hate.
As far as VR, if people are going to get outraged about the PS4.5, because they feel it will device the market, then they should be more outraged by the PSVR. The 'hype' should not be a blinder. I just proves my point that people are complaining just to complain
Gen 1 1972 (4 years),
Gen 2 1976 (7 years),
Gen 3 1983 (4 years),
Gen 4 1987 (6 years),
Gen 5 1993 (5 years),
Gen 6 1998 (7 years),
Gen 7 2005 (7 years),
Gen 8 2012.
So generation lengthwise Gen 8 is starting to reach it's end, if these new upgrades are considered to be an upgrade instead of a new generations then 8th console generation will most likely stretch out to be the longest console generation in gaming history.
The slim is offering almost NOTHING that the current system doesn't already provide. In theory, the 'slim' model usually results in lower production costs, yet they are charging $50 more than what the current system is selling for... oh, and they took out the optical port. It's barely even smaller, and actually looks worse than the current system.
The Pro, which I was really looking forward to, will offer a nice hardware bump, but I was also looking forward to watching my 4k blu-rays finally.... I do have a 4k TV, so I would benefit from the system, but honestly, right now, the games look great on my TV, with my current system. While I'll probably still get the system, I no longer feel a rush to buy it.... not to mention, it's an ugly box
Somehow, in all of this, MS is able to offer 4k blu-ray in their 'S' edition, which may result in me buying one, because it's cheaper than the current players out there. That puts the xbox system back into my home, and I wouldn't think that's part of Sony's plan.
Now PS+ is going to be $10/yr more, and while that's not a lot of money, they've done nothing to justify the cost. The servers are just as bad as ever (been down 3 times in the last few weeks). The PS+ games have been disappointing, to say the least.
I hate to say it, but I think MS has stepped up, and Sony didn't.
On a more serious note, people seem to be severely understating the accessibility of mobile gaming. A few months ago my dad messaged me about how he found a game on the app store that he actually enjoyed playing. This is the same guy that told me games would melt my brain if I played them for longer than 2 hours when I was 4, heh.
"well, the new hardware is really powerful, but nobody needs it..."
"anyway, let's fill it with content. Lots of content. Because we can! Let's go!"
"Damn, producing this content gets expensive. There's just so much HDD space / screen space / bandwith to fill. We can't do it the old way. We need to work smarter..."
And then people come up with awesome tools like Substance.
We've seen this with the current gen consoles. There are still limitations, but the amount of content these days is more limited by budget rather than hardware. It's got to be more content at higher fidelity created in even shorter time.
That said, even though I buy just about every console and handheld, I tend to do most of my gaming on PCs these days. The convenience of Steam has kinda enticed me to set my consoles to the side unless there's a compelling console only exclusive to pry me away from my mouse/keyboard.
I do a little bit of gaming on tablet/mobile, but mostly BS casual stuff like Farmville that I can occasionally play while watching TV. Not too into tablets for gaming, tbh. I prefer a good controller or keyboard/mouse combo. Tablet games usually don't offer a whole lot of depth. Not digging the micro transaction heavy nature of many tablet games.
My next console purchases will probably be the Nintendo NX and whatever next gen offering Sony & MS offer up after they tire of their mid-gen pacifiers.
RE: 4K gaming... Not worth it to me atm. I'm more interested in stuff that'll improve the actual game playing experience. Visuals are a secondary issue for me. You could only convince me to get a 4K monitor or TV if there were some killer app or lots of programming content started getting filmed/delivered in 4K. For now, at least for a few more years, I don't see a compelling reason to go beyond 1080p. 2K and 4K are mostly just bragging points, imo. Great tomorrow? Yeah. A gimmick or limited use option today though.
Welp
I thought everyone would be happy since we don't have to be that weary of our polycounts and texture sizes anymore
and yeah... 4k is just a gimmick tbh
I don't know who asked for it but it always was something that salty pc users just tried to keep reminding console owners that they don't have... as if it's significant in any way
I might be a bit jaded but I dont believe any current gen ps4 game would run well in 4k on the ps4 pro without actually making some graphical sacrifces, I just dont believe the ps4 pro could be that powerful, even some of the most powerful pcs struggle to run games well at 4k these days. I dont mind being proven wrong though, that would be impressive.