Female anatomy study. Helpes needed.

billakosama

I'm trying to model a realistic female body and I kinda reached a point where I know I'm far from finished but at the same time I've no clue what to do, where to focus and how to go on in general. Plus I have a feeling that something is very wrong but I cant see it
(I know I can detail hands and feet and face but I'm more concerned about the body and proportions)

Please go hard on me, c&c are very much appreciated! 

(turntable gif doesnt seem to be working, should I upload elsewhere insead of drag&drop?)

billakosama

Thanks for the comment Dustin!
I think I'm struggling with everything to be honest... its not that I find it hard to do but I just dont know what to do. For example you told me about the knees but I have no idea what to improve. I look at reference photos and I dont see much detail in the knee area.
I don't have much experience so if don't see something I don't even know what I'm supposed to sculpt.

Nguewt

the neck and shoulder connection looks alright from the front, but from the back, I think it needs to reach out further to the shoulders.

billakosama

@Nguewt
Thanks I think you're right!

Sam Leheny

Looks really good so far man! When adding more detail to the arms, just remember that the forearms come up higher on the outside than toward the inside. At the moment the bulge signifying the end of the upper arm and the beginning of the forearm is a bit too straight.

billakosama

Thanks a lot guys! 
@Sam Leheny I'm not sure I understood exactly what part you mean but I hope I fixed it.

@dustinbrown I didn't even know what an ecorche sculpt is, I'll try that. How would I know that I'm good or not though. With a skinned human I cant "naturally" tell if it looks right or not... I guess I'll have to depend on you guys again :P

This is the current state. I fixed (I think I did) some things you guys suggested and defined the hands and feet a little. I think I'll slowly wrap this up and move on to some ecorche studies like dustin said. Any thoughts? I've been looking at this for so long that I can't even tell if it looks right. I think I may have made the arms too short (honestly I didnt pay much attention to the arms)?

Sam Leheny

Fabulous! The only thing I notice is that the latissimus dorsi is a bit too abrupt in its angle.
And it should probably come out further down the back.



You've got the right idea in wanting the latissimus to not be so visible from the front like men, but considering the pose - see for yourself:



I also can't tell if the shoulders are a bit too broad. Can we see her with her arms lowered to her sides?

billakosama

@Sam Leheny You're awesome, I need to pay more attention to the muscle structure.
I think you may be right about the width of her shoulders too, I didn't think to lower her arms. It looks borderline ok-ish to me but if i make them more narrow she wont look like a bodybuilder from the front when I correct the other problem you pointed out.

Sam Leheny

How the shoulders look will be largely impacted by the size of the head, and the size of the head is very reliant on what style you're going for. Many Japanese videogames look like they have realistic human characters, until you take a good look at them a realise their heads are quite small, limbs very long, etc, etc.
If you're going for a perfectly realisticly proportioned person, the legs might be a tiiiiiny bit long, and the head too small. But my point is, looking realistic and looking good aren't the exact same thing. If you don't mind anatomy being slightly stylised (in such a way that people won't even notice once the character is in action) then I think these proportions are just fine;D (except maybe the head)

billakosama

@Sam Leheny Yes I know the realistic 7.5 heads vs 8 or 9 stylized head height. I may have accidentally made the head smaller when I polished it a little and didnt notice. I was going for a realistic sculpt.
I like stylized stuff more but I think it will benefit me greatly if I hone my skills in realism. I believe if you're really good at realistic characters it's easier to exaggerate a few things and make it stylized but the opposite is not so easy imo.
I'll apply some finishing touches and hopefully post the "finished" sculpt sometime today (or tonight depending on where people live :P).
Thanks for the tips again!

billakosama

I think I fixed some things but all in all I didn't really do much. Made the shoulders narrower, made the head bigger, worked a little on the knees, collarbone, neck head and elbows but nothing too drastic. I think I'll call this finished and go on with some more anatomy studies since I still lack the skill to add anything meaningful beyond this point in a reasonable amount of time.

Any thoughts on the final and what I could pay more attention to in the future will be appreciated.

jfeez

My main crit is that the underlying bone structure is incorrect. A few area's where its super apparent are the scapula's, hips and ribcage(though it is present throughout).

With the scapula's there is no structure for the muscles to insert to, so the rear head of the delt and teres major/minor just seem to appear from nowhere. It also causes the traps to look flat as there is no bone to flow around. The hips lack the iliac crest which makes the oblique to leg connection flat. Basically it looks like you have sculpted what you have seen, and not what actually exists.

I would recommend really concentrating on insertion points and how muscles rest on top of the skeleton. I was in a similar position as you a few years back, what really helped me was doing small and fast gesture studies of regions of the body. Often these were posed so I really had to concentrate on insertion points and bone structure. You're on the right path doing more anatomy studies, keep going!

billakosama

@jfeez Thanks for all the tips I really appreciate it. I did some research on all the points you brought up and I see that indeed I had no idea what I was doing... 
The only thing I don't understand is the part about the iliac crest. I was aware of this since it's a bone that's often exaggerated in stylized models and paintings but I intentionally didn't define it because in all the references of real women with a reasonable amount of body fat I couldn't see it even if I knew it was there. I suppose this has to do with the fact that I was initially going for a very average looking woman but I ended up with a fairly fit one and now the contrast between this area and others is too obvious?

Anchang-Style

The Scapula is a bit off looking. I know it's an anatomical figure, but the hard angle between spine and medial border are a lot more hard, especially with the teres major on the bottom, having another rough angle between them. Yours is a bit too round as one shape.

billakosama

@Anchang-Style Thanks for the input. I've realized that my back anatomy in general is quite off... I've decided to do some sculpts of parts of the body to focus on specific anatomy. I'll probably start with a male back sculpt (I guess male and female backs aren't that different)

Anchang-Style

Well male, atleast idealised male, differ a bit. often have the spine of the scapula and the medial border as indents rather than extrusion, due to the deltoid being more developed, also the teres major is more developed. You often see a flat surface between spine of the scap, medial border, teres major. The infraspinatus (literally "under the spine") and the teres minor can't really build up mass so they stay as a flat surface.

billakosama

@Anchang-Style Yes you are right, I realized that today when I downloaded a bunch of bodybuilder reference pictures. These guys are so buff you cant even see the clavicle sometimes...