hmm still chance to get a job
polycount lvl 666
been humming and harring and about applying for work, aged nearly 48 now. wonder if I still have a chance.
not sure about it tbh. freelancing is not paying that well and I need to earn a more regular income
might be a bit crap if I get hired an everyone is aged like 20+ lol
not sure about it tbh. freelancing is not paying that well and I need to earn a more regular income
might be a bit crap if I get hired an everyone is aged like 20+ lol
Replies
I am more the solider in the trenches type
what industry and what position are you interested in ?
things that are currently hurting you:
your portfolio lacks consistency and focus
you have too many wip or just sculpt and not enough finished art
you have too little to show considering the time you have been in this industry. i understand the quality vs quantity argument but even then you need more finished art to show.
your artstation is not organized, ie. you put all worked under one post which at first glance from main page looks like you only have one entry in your portfolio. things like these make potential employers think you might be either lazy or careless or both.
Yes, it is a bias, what's your point?
it is like saying "hey we know there is sexism so you better dress up like a man if you are a woman to get the job"
anyways, i digress. i hope i made my point clear to Mike at least and thats all that matters.
Hope you get what you want.
up. I have done that more or less on my main folio page
it's true I have loads of work that i could show, but some of it is still nda and will not be able to be shown ever.
I will have a look at reorganising my folio, particularly my artstation stuff
I think a lot of my stuff is a bit unfinished because I stuggled a bit with the anatomy side of things/also cloth re zbrushing
for a while but i feel a bit more confident with that now.
The competition 'is' really tough these days I agree, so it might be hard to get a job, but i will give it a try anyway
i am still interested in games, but there are other jobs going now like VR /vfx, but I still think games
is what i am interested in most
working with younger art directors would not bug me if they were good art directors. I do actually work
freelance you know:) and have to take loads of feedback anyway
being an art director would be tricky i guess as it's not just characters you are giving feedback on, there's environemtal
stuff, UI etc, which is not my thing really.
I did have an interview for outsource manager recently, but decided against it. might be a bit boring tbh( for me at least)
always my main motivation has been creating art, not sitting in meetings all day
My missus really wants me to start my own company, so that is also an option, but a slightly more perilous one
That said, I can see ageism being a thing, but then they'd only find out when interviewing you in person, right?
Anyway, Ruz, sorry I got off topic. I agree that your stuff is solid. It does feel a tad scattered and there's nothing that really "blows" me away. Maybe you can work on something really high end as the focal point of your folio. Even if it's just a bust it can have a large impact if it has the utmost detail and is executed flawlessly. Good luck buddy!
No, I'm saying meritocracy is a myth that we tell ourselves to feel better about the industry. It's a good thing to believe in but coming in and saying age doesn't matter is just blowing smoke up Mike's ass.
Also, seeing other people succeed, helping them by sharing your wisdom, can be very rewarding!
edit: spelling
It's not as though I have never worked in a studio before:) though I am sure things have changed a fair bit.
I can either carry on doing the cartoony stuff which I enjoy , maybe a mobile game studio is the best fit
OR ramp up my zbrush stuff and aim for the more realistic end of the market.
I mainly zbrush in my spare time , but most of my production work is semi cartoony.
I do prefer the workflow for the lattter and is less time consuming/stressful overall.
anyway if I get any hassle about my age i am old enough to deal with it:/
i read Mike's post and like he said he is more of a soldier type who likes to be involved directly in the production and likes doing the actual work rather than telling others what to do. i can relate to him and i personally feel the exact same way.
so my suggestion is mainly targeted at Mike with consideration of what will keep him happy and based on what he said above, a management role is not for him. this is why i suggested to put more effort on his portfolio and work hard to keep working as an artist and making stuff.
however, if you cant absolutely find any work as an artist then you might have no other choice than to venture into management and other roles just to pay the bills.
switching to management/art direction seems like a retirement choice to me for some people who have given up on some degree or are burnt or tired which can happen after a long time, but i dont know if it is that time yet for Mike. only he can decide that for himself.
Those are the managers NOBODY needs or wants. If that's your experience with the leads you worked with, then I feel sorry for you. Beause that's not how it should be.
As AD you would be expected to lead - to push your team, to give them the direction, motivation, support, training and time to work uninterrupted. To push their envelope while at the same time avoiding overtime death marches and still sticking to time and quality budgets. This means you still need to stay up to date on workflows and tools, because you will be responsible for your team mastering those. This ain't a job for retired arm chair generals who just lean back and give orders (in fact, then you'd be called dictator and not manager, because you ain't "managing" this way!). It is okay if your artists are better than you - they're your specialists; you're there for leadership and feedback. But there's no excuse for an AD who's not up to date on tools and workflows and who doesn't constantly try to improve himself, his team and their workflows. You really gotta be involved and knowledgabe to give good feedback and to have people trust your judgment.
I strongly want to disencourage everyone to think of management roles that way, because people with this attitude are exactly the reason why working at some studios is shit. Don't do this to your fellow artists!
my english must be really bad. seems like i have to point out the obvious again.
there are many many great art directiors and i have had the pleasure to work with many such and am currently working with many such managers/leaders/ADs etc. these are the people who truely love being in that role i would assume and they chose to be there not because they ran out of work as an artist but because this is the role that they qualify the most for and have the appropriate experience/skill-set for it.
Mike explicitly pointed out that he likes making the actual art rather than managing. he prefers to be a soldier rather than a leader. i can relate to that. for people like us, it MIGHT feel like it is a last resort to get a job in management role or an art direction role since our main interest is in making art and not directing or leading others. however, given time people like us might mature and grow into good managers or leaders but it didnt seem to be that time for Mike based entirely on Mike's post. but once again this is something only Mike can decide for himself instead of us rambling on.
I'm working 90% hands-on, as a Lead Env Artist, and have been doing similar roles for most of my career.
I've had to work with ADs who were less than stellar. I treat it like any professional should IMHO. I simply try to remember it's a commercial art job, not fine art. I'm not working for my own pleasure. I'm working for someone else, they're the client. If they really want something, even though I disagree with the direction, I may make a recommendation but ultimately I follow their lead, and put my best effort into it.
The biggest constraint for me is geography. My wife and kids want to stay put. So I need to find roles in the immediate area. That means lots of networking, never burning bridges, etc. You know the drill.
FWIW there are other real-time 3D art roles worth taking a look at. Not as exciting as games maybe, but sometimes more money to be made. Architectural, VR, medical, military, gambling games.
Great thread Mike.
but i guess nowdays if you want to apply for freelance, you better get a bit flashy on the website and marketing . ( i see Jonas for example : just .. advertise everywhere even in some Indonesian language CG forum ^^ , dont worry it is legit strategy )
and remove some average art ( no matter how good the payment )
speaking of money, I can understand that payment can get a bit hard on high living cost area.
when I get here in UK , I am genuinely surprised on how expensive the housing for student's shared room standard. I could get nice furnished apartment just for myself in Montreal around downtown, for the exact same price.
maybe what about making art assets and sell it for affordable price in several online marketplace?
me going is my enjoyment of art .
I think the reason i would not fancy being an AD is that it's a way stressful job I guess. you really have to be a people person to succeed in that area.I do enjoy working with other artists but on the same level ie bouncing off ideas
and problem solving.
I am not saying I would never do it, but my main motivation is creating pretty things to look at
My zbrush stuff has come along great of late and I will start posting some of it soon.
i did apply for one job, but no reply yet - not that many senior art jobs about it seems and like Eric
mentioned I have a family and feel a bit limited to where I can relocate to. London is way too expensive right now
xvampire - yeah need to improve my folio a lot its true and TBH I need to get in to posting back on forums and getting
noticed - been hanging in the background for a while now.
I was basically a texture artist and it's taken me a long time to become a competent zbrush artist/modeller
ie to the same level of confidence as my texture art
might consider getting in tp other areas of 3d if nothing comes up in games
erroldynamic - that's way cool, he will probably retire as a games artist
also, since you brought up the topic of your portfolio i think i should give you my honest feedback without any sugar coating.
you keep mentioning that your zbrush skills are not up to par or you started out as a 2d guy and texture artist. looking at your portfolio, i think your texture work is the weakest feature in your work specially if you want to be in game industry. sure your zbrush work could improve but it is pretty decent already IMO.
however, if you are interested in being an artist in game industry you need to make more art with focus on detailed textures either handpainted, stylized or realistic. a semi-decent model can come out pretty good looking only because of a great texture. currently you have almost no models with detailed textures or variety of material definitions. lot of them have flat toon-shade style textures and only your die hard model has little bit of detailing on the paints and that is about it. your strongest works are the characters from "Bubble Genius 2015" and they remind me of the works of Andrew Hickinbottom. may be that is the style of work you are more good at ? find your passion and focus on that.
so to recap, your strong points are:
1. you have clean work with marketable production value.
2. your model execution and presentation is also clean.
3. you have a variety of styles in your models from realistic to stylized.
your weak points:
1. you lack focus, having variety is good but you need more finished characters in one focused direction and may be accompanied by variety of few other types. find your passion and focus on something.
2. you dont have texture work samples that do detailed texturing or painting capabilities or knowledge of different material definitions. you need this at some level no matter what tool you use if you want to be successful in game industry as an artist.
3. you have too little work to show for the time you have been a professional. i know it can be hard to find time to do personal work but you need more art to market yourself better and attract more clients.
much easier finacially, but I have lost out in terms of getting in house work at vfx companies. So probably living in a city is a better idea,but as I say really expensive.
re my texture work, I just haven't chosen to show much of that work in my current folio, because I figured the hand painted stuff I used to do is no longer marketable. also re styles, I did actually work on a project with Andy Hickinbottom on a project at nexus:)
I think I do enjoy doing less photorealsitic work , but maybe I want to be doing some thing a little more serious. The thing is, doing overtly photorealistic work takes a hell of a long time and is waaay stressful at times,especially as revisions seem to take longer
The bubble genius stuff is a straightforward process for me overall and is fun to work on
I suppose I should really stick to that kind of work if I want to actually have an enjoyable career and actually make some money
re volume of work i think i will add back in some of the work and reorganise .
thanks for the feedback MM and others, much appreciated. will post some folio/artstation updates soon