Feeling really useless atm (trying to model; Zbrush)
polycounter lvl 2
Looking for some sort of insight to be honest. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong as I can't stop hitting the same ceiling repeatedly.
I've downloaded trials of Blender, Modo, Maya, Zbrush, and Sculptris. Ultimately I settled with trying to learn Maya and Zbrush and have spent a month trying to learn them with nothing to show for it. My fiance drew a front and side view of a character and while the perspective is 90% accurate and-after some alignment and resizing-still not 100% lined up it's good enough for me to work with. But in Zbrush all I get after 3-4 hours is this hideous garbage shape I've worked on. In Maya I can't even get that far. It's been a week of this for 6-8 hours a day. I have a huge file with notes from tutorials I've done. I don't know what to do. It seems so obvious and I watch others do it both in Zbrush and Maya but when I attempt to do the same thing I get wildly different results.
In both instances I set up image planes and whatnot. Standard affair.
Zbrush: I'll grab a sphere, dynamesh, Move Tool with a MASSIVE brush and using the reference views (Front and Left respectively) I'll pull out a shape. It resembles a light bulb that's been melted at the bottom. I try to fix up the torso by pushing it in as I just want a head and body for this part. This mostly works. The upper torso, head, and neck are an odd mangled thing*. I then use the curvebrush to draw out arms and legs. I pull them out with the move brush (ClayTubes /ClayBuildUp and smoothing never worked out here in my previous attempts) and I have just an ugly mesh. Everything is crooked and squigly and tilted and warped. I attempt to fix these things with ClayTubes and smoothing. It doesn't work. This is the best I've gotten so far:
https://gyazo.com/c4a67fb510d49caed8d8d602901bd81d
https://gyazo.com/6320c2730620dd69728120ab23649448
**
I got that far by quickly getting to the point where I could say I got the reference's shapes down roughly enough and began to freeform model. This let me begin working on the neck and filling in the spinal shape give or take. But when I tried to fix the chin it went really poorly. Same with the nose. Then I accidentally poked in some eyes and the mouth and now here I am xD Should've hit undo but I tilted
worked too long with too many failures and not enough breaks. Coming back to it I see that I have good outlines for a base of a base mesh but it's complete garbage and the more I try to refine it the worse that it gets. The opposite of any art I've done in the past. It's not that I can't see what's wrong. It's that the more I try to fix it the worse it gets. And the tutorials I watch just show people magically going from dynameshed sphere to beautiful creation using the same steps I am but without the horrid artifacts.
To be clear I'm trying to create a sort of base mesh to build characters from. I liked her character's proportions so I asked her to make a side view for me so that I could work with said proportions. I'm a decent artist but ultimately I like using templates to get to where I'm going faster. The initial linework for me tends to take the longest. In 2D I usually went on OpenGameArt, found a spritesheet and overhauled it HEAVILY to fit what I was going for. Once I have a base I tend to have a super easy time moving forward. I blame blank-paper-paralysis.
On the Maya front I've got a ~8 face chest. That's it. I just can't get Maya to ever do what I'm trying to do. I don't understand why it's so difficult xD I was working with Pixel Art before so I thought I'd mesh better with a hard surface modelling program as I'd have more precise control. I couldn't even get the spine shaped out. And it, IN THEORY, was just ~3 edge loops so that I could have 8? faces on the back and push them in (because pulling anything out in Maya doesn't work..) to fit the shapes I was seeing. AHAHAHHAHA no. Instead the thing just hunchbacked, rolled its "shoulders" and then turned into a triangle with a flattened bottom end. I don't even.
*Next time I plan on just using InsertSphere for the head
**We both realize that feet don't point inward. This drawing was from a year ago and I wasn't even trying to copy that flaw. That was yet another artifact.
***SUPER edit: if I can get Zbrush going I'll be using that and Blender probably. I've used Blender to animate random stuff back in the 8th grade so I figure that if 8th grade me could do it... Because saving money.
I've downloaded trials of Blender, Modo, Maya, Zbrush, and Sculptris. Ultimately I settled with trying to learn Maya and Zbrush and have spent a month trying to learn them with nothing to show for it. My fiance drew a front and side view of a character and while the perspective is 90% accurate and-after some alignment and resizing-still not 100% lined up it's good enough for me to work with. But in Zbrush all I get after 3-4 hours is this hideous garbage shape I've worked on. In Maya I can't even get that far. It's been a week of this for 6-8 hours a day. I have a huge file with notes from tutorials I've done. I don't know what to do. It seems so obvious and I watch others do it both in Zbrush and Maya but when I attempt to do the same thing I get wildly different results.
In both instances I set up image planes and whatnot. Standard affair.
Zbrush: I'll grab a sphere, dynamesh, Move Tool with a MASSIVE brush and using the reference views (Front and Left respectively) I'll pull out a shape. It resembles a light bulb that's been melted at the bottom. I try to fix up the torso by pushing it in as I just want a head and body for this part. This mostly works. The upper torso, head, and neck are an odd mangled thing*. I then use the curvebrush to draw out arms and legs. I pull them out with the move brush (ClayTubes /ClayBuildUp and smoothing never worked out here in my previous attempts) and I have just an ugly mesh. Everything is crooked and squigly and tilted and warped. I attempt to fix these things with ClayTubes and smoothing. It doesn't work. This is the best I've gotten so far:
https://gyazo.com/c4a67fb510d49caed8d8d602901bd81d
https://gyazo.com/6320c2730620dd69728120ab23649448
**
I got that far by quickly getting to the point where I could say I got the reference's shapes down roughly enough and began to freeform model. This let me begin working on the neck and filling in the spinal shape give or take. But when I tried to fix the chin it went really poorly. Same with the nose. Then I accidentally poked in some eyes and the mouth and now here I am xD Should've hit undo but I tilted
worked too long with too many failures and not enough breaks. Coming back to it I see that I have good outlines for a base of a base mesh but it's complete garbage and the more I try to refine it the worse that it gets. The opposite of any art I've done in the past. It's not that I can't see what's wrong. It's that the more I try to fix it the worse it gets. And the tutorials I watch just show people magically going from dynameshed sphere to beautiful creation using the same steps I am but without the horrid artifacts.To be clear I'm trying to create a sort of base mesh to build characters from. I liked her character's proportions so I asked her to make a side view for me so that I could work with said proportions. I'm a decent artist but ultimately I like using templates to get to where I'm going faster. The initial linework for me tends to take the longest. In 2D I usually went on OpenGameArt, found a spritesheet and overhauled it HEAVILY to fit what I was going for. Once I have a base I tend to have a super easy time moving forward. I blame blank-paper-paralysis.
On the Maya front I've got a ~8 face chest. That's it. I just can't get Maya to ever do what I'm trying to do. I don't understand why it's so difficult xD I was working with Pixel Art before so I thought I'd mesh better with a hard surface modelling program as I'd have more precise control. I couldn't even get the spine shaped out. And it, IN THEORY, was just ~3 edge loops so that I could have 8? faces on the back and push them in (because pulling anything out in Maya doesn't work..) to fit the shapes I was seeing. AHAHAHHAHA no. Instead the thing just hunchbacked, rolled its "shoulders" and then turned into a triangle with a flattened bottom end. I don't even.
*Next time I plan on just using InsertSphere for the head
**We both realize that feet don't point inward. This drawing was from a year ago and I wasn't even trying to copy that flaw. That was yet another artifact.
***SUPER edit: if I can get Zbrush going I'll be using that and Blender probably. I've used Blender to animate random stuff back in the 8th grade so I figure that if 8th grade me could do it... Because saving money.
Replies
Edit. Read that all wrong. But still 1 month trying to learn maya/zbrush for someone not used to 3d programs is still not a very long time
And try use lower subdivisions when blocking out the shape. By that I mean use less polygons. It's easier to get a clean curve with say 3 vertices than 20. The screen shots shown are a bit too high resolution. Keep at it
Oh and if blocking in maya don't be afraid of triangles/ngons get you proportions and gesture first. Then you can clean that up or run dynamesh on it
As Daew said, use less polies...that way, it'll be easier to just form your figure/proportions. Use various shapes (spheres/cylinders, etc) to form the char instead of using a whole solid mesh. When you're happy with that, then dynamesh and add detail. But assuming thats what you did, c'mon bruh that gingerbread face wasn't an honest attempt at it at all. But in case it was, smooth it out and try at it again...it'll take a while & numerous attempts before you end up with something you like but the trick/secret is to not give up. In time, you'll find your char slowly looking better & coming to life.
And my problem with Maya is that it just doesn't make sense to me. If I want to take a square and make it a rectangle I can't just grab a face and move it upward. I can't even grab that face and push it inward. But I SEE people do it. I've seen tutorials where I'm following along and someone does something that I can't do and I'm like "Okay. Well then." ; I've got a blender tutorial open that I anticipate I'll be following through. Thank you for the tips on Dynamesh and yeah, I can see how a month is a bit short in regard to time. Just used to rapid iteration so a month feels like forever! xP
try harder...
First off you have to get used to viewport (canvas) navigation, then using brushes. You should be practicing making characters instead of trying to make a finished product straight away. It takes time and there is no instant gratification here, but the learning process is really a lot of fun.
A couple of words on zspheres:
They are an approximate so when you use symmetry to set up you figure realize that the result is not completely symmetrical, so once you have a skin of your base form export it to your 3dapp using GoZ and play with the export settings in ZBrush till you have the right size in your 3dapp. This is important because ZB will often export at a very small size and the whole process of making a character ready for games or anything else means sizes have to be right. Also the combo ZB and a standard 3d modelling app is a very powerful one and for uvs and texturing its vital.
Once you have your skinned zsphere model at a good size in your model app make sure the model has a complete loop running around the x axis (may change depending on the software but this is most common). If it doesnt have a loop then model it in. Delete one half of the mesh. Select the center edge loop and align it in the x axis, position it at x=0 and use a modifier or clone copy paste to mirror and weld it to the original half making your model perfectly symmetrical. Send the model back to ZBrush. Use subdivision levels to sculpt your character. Like I said you can see the process in the videos I made.
Get used to using ZBrush, it really is a blast!
Cheerio
some guys actually model everything form 3d primitives and then combine them with dynamesh
Especially with how the character is shaped, you might be better creating the character in Maya first using box modeling.
Then, once you got the base mesh down take that into Zbrush and start sculpting.
Also, I think if you're completely new to 3d maybe doing a character right from the start might be a pretty big leap.
Maybe try a prop? Something a bit smaller scale might help you not feel so overwhelmed to finish a whole character.
@Ruz - I tried this but Maya and I disagree heavily on how things "work" and I can't seem to get the program to cooperate in regard to modeling. I've tried tutorials and things currently aren't working out. Trying Blender shortly.
@Joebewon - I'll follow this advice; I poorly assumed that since the character's shapes were so simple it would be a small task.
@Kanga - I'll try this. At the very least it's a MUCH more controlled start than what I've been working with and I like the idea based on what I'm making. All of your tips were excellent and I'm glad to know them in advance. Thanks! OH! Also I picked up on the viewport navigation quickly thanks to the Z-Classroom videos. Wasn't unintuitive at all. I already know how Alphas, Strokes, Falloffs, ect. work
@Oglu - Things take time. I get it. But my aesthetic won't take long to do as it's not realistic or complex. I don't believe that I'm not trying hard enough; I've done a lot of research and taken the time to complete several tutorials and completed many of the Zbrush Classroom videos. I came here to ask if anyone else had had similar troubles starting off and to see if their experiences would reduce my "difficulty curve" and it did. Thank you for taking the time to comment as I appreciate hearing that it takes a long time (something which I already knew) but my difficulties came from unexpected problems that I couldn't solve AT THE FOUNDATION of sculpting.
Above all, thanks everyone for your replies!
I didn't quite grasp this sentence. SO when I heard "my name is Kanga" I was like. I KNOW HIM. I KNOW THIS MAN. THE WIZARD, THE GOD..
Then I was like okay post here quickly and get back to the video.
Edit: Don't want to get ahead of myself and certainly don't want to be that person but uh. Atm you're my hero. xD This is so much easier for getting big forms down and even has the benefit of being able to T-Pose the model super easily using the angle constraints thing.
Have fun with ZBrush and dont forget to post your stuff here in the wip forum and if you need help you can always post in the technical forum here. Folks at polycount are extremely helpful.
Cheerio
Would you expect to start learning guitar and violin at the same time and be on par with Django Reinhardt and Stephane Grappelli after a month?
As far as feeling useless goes: bust out some speed sculpts/doodles from time to time. Just load up one of the project spheres or a simple basemesh head and spend somewhere between 15-30 minutes sculpting. It is good practice for getting used to brush behavior and trying out different ways to create a desired shape. And if the sculpt doesn't end up being satisfying then its not as big of a blow to the confidence since it was just a quick little exercise.
I'll definitely post to Polycount for critique and help. Love communities that revolve around supporting and helping one another.