[Questions] Level Design roadblocks

Greg DAlessandro · Feb 2016

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/qk/598fc4l3ntck.jpg

Bletzkarn · Mar 2016

Best way is to make levels and then test them on real players. Back when counter-strike: source was around it was perfect for this, make a few gun game maps (similiar to call of duty) and you will learn extremely fast what works and what does not.

Sadly CS:GO doesn't use community mods anymore (dieing community) but I'm sure there are other popular games to try this with

Greg DAlessandro · Mar 2016

So are you saying to skip the planning/layout phase on paper and just learn/go at it in either in-game editors/engines? I thought that you need to be able to concept layouts/generate ideas on paper before touching any engine/editor in the industry. (but that is where I am struggling) However, I do plan on making levels and having players test them.

kneedeepinthedoomed · Mar 2016

I learned level design by actually making maps for Quake, Warsow, Crysis and whatnot. Install a shooter game that you like and that has a good editor. Ideally brush based stuff just for the layout experience (though Crysis Sandbox is very easy to use too.) Quake 3 for instance has a semi-active level making community still who will love to answer questions. Source based stuff as well. Looks don't matter here, mechanics do. Join a cooperation or mod team and learn from others.

Especially for learning how to add a second or third level (verticality) to your maps, you should do it right in an editor and learn understanding things in 3D, not on paper.

Besides shooters, I recommend especially parcour / platforming games in 3D for studying since the levels are often very vertical. Speedrun videos are often nice to get a feel for various games' level layout techniques since the visuals just zoom by while the gameplay elements and their spacing are very apparent..

Try the mapcore forum!

Higuy · Mar 2016

Yourname942 said:

So are you saying to skip the planning/layout phase on paper and just learn/go at it in either in-game editors/engines? I thought that you need to be able to concept layouts/generate ideas on paper before touching any engine/editor in the industry. (but that is where I am struggling) However, I do plan on making levels and having players test them.

Yeah, you do, and you should learn how to do them on paper, but the people here also have a strong point that a lot of times you will learn best sometimes just running in and "winging it" when it comes to level design.

When I did a lot of multiplayer maps for Halo: Custom Edition, I'd often just open up max and start sketching out ideas rather than going to paper first. However, sometimes for larger projects, especially when you have lots of team members, its easier to draw something out on paper to convery your ideas and show them what you want to do. If you are just starting out with level design, I highly suggest what Tidal Blast mentioned above, and go find a game you want to mod and create levels for. With a high understanding of the game you want to make levels for, a lot of the design process will become easier, and ideas will come a lot more smoothly.

After looking at your layouts/pictures, I think a strong thing you need to do is work on how your ideas are presented. Even if you just used paint, you could make your ideas a bit less messy and convey what you wish to show in your levels easier. It's also good and handy to have a level design document to go along with your layout to explain the level, setting, events, etc in all the areas of the map, and how the player progresses through each.

Lastly - I've never personally seen that note card method. It seems interesting in practice but I guess a lot of details are still left up to imagination? Good for brainstorming?

Greg DAlessandro · Mar 2016

I want to make maps in Halo 5, as I am very familiar with the mechanics and tactics, but I don't know how I would be able to gather feedback for that game. Would it be more wise to focus on making maps for Unreal Tournament instead? (Since I can post on the Unreal Tournament forums to get feedback)

Also, I plan on creating/presenting clean/readable layouts/ descriptions/ breakdowns similar to ones from http://www.bobbyross.com/ for my portfolio. (For both multiplayer maps showcasing flow, as well as for single player maps showing breakdowns/pacing)

Higuy · Mar 2016

I would definitely look into creating maps using an engine such as UE4 or Source, as you'll get the "real deal" when it comes to making levels. Not saying creating maps for Halo 5 using Forge is bad, but using actual game tools used to build games would look better and most likely be a better skill set.

kneedeepinthedoomed · Mar 2016

If you want to learn level design, you should learn it from the ground up. In-game modding tools / game modes are very nice for getting your feet wet (I was a big fan of Tony Hawk's "Create your own skate park" thing a long time ago) but that is more like putting lego bricks together. If that's what you want to do, by all means do it. But general level design practice is more fundamental and hands-on. Starting from scratch. Make your own terrain, do a layout from scratch, create your own props and textures, you know. I was suggesting older games because it's easier to finish a level for them, which is a good way to learn. Do one layout, release, have it trashed by players, do the next. Iterative process. You want a community that can give you feedback and tips.

[Questions] Level Design roadblocks

Replies