I don't like to be associated with the term ''artist''
polycounter lvl 9
We've had this recent discussion with one of my friends.
It's such a complex discussion but I think we have to talk about it. I don't know about you guys, but when I say I wanna work in CG art, nobody takes my career choice seriously (not even my parents sadly). For my friends who study in engineering and science, I'm always bound to be that clueless naive guy who study art...''it's an artist''....
The term ''artist'' has grown to have a pejorative connotation sometimes and for a reason; If anyone can call himself an artist, then nobody really is one...
A guy that hasn't obtained its diploma in engineering and worked in the field cannot call himself an engineer. Same goes for a doctor, a nurse, an architect, even a teacher.
See, the problem with artist is that like I said, nowadays, you don't need to do much to call yourself an artist, everybody can become one apparently. It's the same phenomenon that for example, professional cooks are living. Some people don't see ''cooks'' as being relevant professionally because every one can cook at home and call himself a cook..-_-
Same goes for artist. We've probably all witnessed it some time or another...People with little to no knowledge of photography, takes a few macro photos every month with an average cam and calls himself a ''photograph''; thus reducing the credibility of the profession in the eyes of the world .Of course, industrial workers will be able to recognize the difference between a hobbyist and a professional photograph, but I'm talking about the average person here (family, friends, consumers,etc.) :
This phenomenon can be seen among other artistic fields like professional visual artists , dancers, musicians, people who study theater and acting; said fields aren't considered seriously because too many people have ''dumbed down'' the professional side of them.
A guy who scribbles a few sketches in his notebook at school can call himself an artist, amateurs who participates in improvisation contest can call himself an actor, people who sing or dance at home can call themselves dancers; all of this groups the said phenomenon that is not seen in other fields like I said up there...
Not anyone can call themselves an engineer, an architect,etc. without the necessary qualifications to be called so...
When I was a kid, I would watch those ''behind the scene'' videos of traditional Disney animators working their skills unto the paper, flipping pages and drawing masterpieces, sheets after sheets. For me, they didn't look like artist; at least, not the conventional one. THEY WERE DRAFTSMAN (or ''artisan'' in french), a term Jacques Choi already employed once here, (which really stroke me)...
We don't do this thing only for fun or creativity, we all aspire to get better, to be among the top workers in our field, which itself is an industrial field. We deal with technical constraints day after day, we're not just people drawing or sculpting. We have to evolve, adapting ourselves with strict pipeline and available tools...
Why is it so that people who haven't worked professionally can call themselves a 3D artist? How is it that people with bad skills can call themselves an artist just because he enjoys it? Even I, don't wanna call myself an artist; because first, I don't have the professional qualifications to be one yet. Second; people don't take artists seriously because too many of them doesn't have any professional credibility...
Not anyone can or should call themselves an artist!
Yet, everyone at my school does...
It's such a complex discussion but I think we have to talk about it. I don't know about you guys, but when I say I wanna work in CG art, nobody takes my career choice seriously (not even my parents sadly). For my friends who study in engineering and science, I'm always bound to be that clueless naive guy who study art...''it's an artist''....
The term ''artist'' has grown to have a pejorative connotation sometimes and for a reason; If anyone can call himself an artist, then nobody really is one...
A guy that hasn't obtained its diploma in engineering and worked in the field cannot call himself an engineer. Same goes for a doctor, a nurse, an architect, even a teacher.
See, the problem with artist is that like I said, nowadays, you don't need to do much to call yourself an artist, everybody can become one apparently. It's the same phenomenon that for example, professional cooks are living. Some people don't see ''cooks'' as being relevant professionally because every one can cook at home and call himself a cook..-_-
Same goes for artist. We've probably all witnessed it some time or another...People with little to no knowledge of photography, takes a few macro photos every month with an average cam and calls himself a ''photograph''; thus reducing the credibility of the profession in the eyes of the world .Of course, industrial workers will be able to recognize the difference between a hobbyist and a professional photograph, but I'm talking about the average person here (family, friends, consumers,etc.) :
This phenomenon can be seen among other artistic fields like professional visual artists , dancers, musicians, people who study theater and acting; said fields aren't considered seriously because too many people have ''dumbed down'' the professional side of them.
A guy who scribbles a few sketches in his notebook at school can call himself an artist, amateurs who participates in improvisation contest can call himself an actor, people who sing or dance at home can call themselves dancers; all of this groups the said phenomenon that is not seen in other fields like I said up there...
Not anyone can call themselves an engineer, an architect,etc. without the necessary qualifications to be called so...
When I was a kid, I would watch those ''behind the scene'' videos of traditional Disney animators working their skills unto the paper, flipping pages and drawing masterpieces, sheets after sheets. For me, they didn't look like artist; at least, not the conventional one. THEY WERE DRAFTSMAN (or ''artisan'' in french), a term Jacques Choi already employed once here, (which really stroke me)...
We don't do this thing only for fun or creativity, we all aspire to get better, to be among the top workers in our field, which itself is an industrial field. We deal with technical constraints day after day, we're not just people drawing or sculpting. We have to evolve, adapting ourselves with strict pipeline and available tools...
Why is it so that people who haven't worked professionally can call themselves a 3D artist? How is it that people with bad skills can call themselves an artist just because he enjoys it? Even I, don't wanna call myself an artist; because first, I don't have the professional qualifications to be one yet. Second; people don't take artists seriously because too many of them doesn't have any professional credibility...
Not anyone can or should call themselves an artist!
Yet, everyone at my school does...
Replies
One thing I have found is that the more specific you are with your titles the more likely people are going to recognise it as a more professional thing e.g. Technical artist, Environment artist.
See, I know that. I know all about it. I can make sculptures with feces in the snow and call myself an artist....
But what about all the other professionals one that are also called ''artists'', do you really think, they wanna be associated with me?
People who builds stuff or building with legos, can they call themselves engineer?
I know this thread really seems stupid or obsolete but I've become tired to explain to my peers and family that I'm not just ''drawing stuff'' at schools...
For me, ''artist'' has such a reductive connotation I don't wanna be associated with it anymore...
I would not worry about labels too much though you can call an unsigned musician a musician, you can call a crappy artist an artist.
and for those so obsessed with the label of being called an artist and not producing good works and advancing, well you can call a tortoise a bird, even coat it in feathers, but it's still never going to fly.
and finally don't forget, Hitler was an artist, so at least they aren't Hitler.
Just put the time in and make cool art. Stop being insecure about being an "artist".
This discussion is actually not that complex. As soon as someone uses a vague term that can apply to many different things (in this case, "artist"), simply ask for their precise definition of it. If it matches with your own, then the conversation can continue ; if it doesn't, or is too vague, then agree on one precise definition ... or use another word altogether (like "Smurf" or anything alien like that ).
From there the conversation becomes crystal clear, and someone getting into the "debate" just for the sake of being controversial or stirring shit up by twisting words will have nothing to add. It's also a good way to distinguish between people who are genuinely interested in chatting with you and the ones who just want to be annoying and have no interest in expanding their views.
1) You're saying instead of showing (don't say you want to be a CG artist, be a CG artist and have your work speak for you).
2) Giving too much weight to what other people with different values, upbringings and aspirations are saying about you. What they're saying is being more important to you than your passion for the field.
You can almost smell the money *rubs fingers together*
1. He/She has competed,
2. He/She has been employed to dance/teach for a living, or
3. He/She has performed. And this one is REALLY pushing it.
Taking dance classes here and there doesn't make you a dancer.
Is it not the same in other fields ?
Titles mean nothing besides what your current job title is during payroll. I used to do freelance contractor work at a little advertising agency that put me on their website and called me an "Art Director," but in reality I was a contractor production artist.
Heck, if you wanted to sound smart you could say you engineer models, which technically isn't incorrect according to the dictonary:
Point is, don't lose sleep over titles. Just describe what you do at your job. My sister and I both found it funny how I ended up becoming a Database Developer afterall, where as her title as a programmer is also developer. (Mind you, the title makes sense if you're in the simulation industry as you do have to do a lot of things besides modeling such as QA, generating radar and geographical files, etc. , but to an outsider I'm a programmer from that title.)
Nowadays I just tell people I have a salary sitting in front of a computer for 8 hours a day and go swimming afterwards to counteract it, or better yet just show them your work
I used to be in computer science and engineering for a semester when I was at college, when I told my engineering friends I was switching to the fine arts department they laughed and said good luck making money. I then proceeded to tell them how much do you think the artist got paid who designed that coke can that you're drinking from. That shut them up.
What you have to realize is someone who is not in a particular field, especially things like production art or design, have no idea to the extent what the field entails or how much it affects their perception and daily lives. A lot of people in general fail to realize everything that they buy, everything that they wear, look at, write on, surf the web on, view business powerpoint presentations, signs, logos, etc probably at one point had someone work on it who had a background in some form of visual aesthetics in order to capture someone's attention in the modern world of consumerism.
According to Merriem-Webster.com:
Artist
"A person who creates art : a person who is skilled at drawing, painting, etc."
The "etc." is where the definition is too generalized and is probably there because "art" is completely open to interpretation.
Artisan:
"A worker who practices a trade or handicraft."
In this case, they're using the word "trade", which is synonymous with "profession", but also stipulating that it's "handcraft", meaning not done automatically. Computers are just our tools instead of brushes, saws, etc.
In the end, I agree with everyone else who says you shouldn't worry. These are all just semantics that have no actual impact on what you produce.
Nah, Blond, you are taking it way too far. You are animating. And/or you are modelling. And/or you are drawing. And/or you are programming. Whatever.
It really really doesn't matter, you are getting paid to do what you are interested in. It is not your friends' or anyone's business what you do for a job. If they want to put you in the same category as someone who throws up on their fridge door in the morning and call it art, then, fine, they should go ahead and do that.
In my opinion an artist makes thing for themselves (expression of themselves) where as a designer makes things for other people. 3D game "art" is a highly procedual activity that is always focusing on the end user. So in my opinion its more design than art
personally what i dislike is the term 'senior'. supposedly relates to experience but would never slap that onto myself since in my native german it's a commonly used synonym for old fart. 1st world problem right there.
Let them call it whatever they want...
That usually clears it all up.
You are an artist if you decided that it is your calling in life to make art and you're going through with that. Naturally, a lot of people have issues with that because everybody is being measured according to how much money they have or make. Artists traditionally don't live up to that measure. When you decide to become an artist, you leave that part of society or those considerations behind. It is a profession that is impossible to measure.
If it's so important to you what your parents think of you, well then get a degree in some generally accepted profession. Unfortunately, that might make you unhappy if you would rather make art instead. Why do your parents not support you in trying to live your dream, is perhaps a good question.
Sometimes you just have to say to yourself "I'm sorry parents, but I'm an artist." I think most artists have to do that actually. It is your good right to do what you want with your life. Life is short and you shouldn't give too much for what others would have you do with it. You'll notice this as you get older. You can't seriously spend your life trying to conform to other people's ideas about you because that would be a waste of time. And your time is limited.
Personally I call myself a game developer, which is more understandable to people in general, but even that is something that has to be fought for. It is only recently that some people have said to me, "you know it is kinda cool that you're sticking with your dreams." Some people are starting to notice that I might actually mean it for real. I guess you just need to rough it out and eventually prove to people that you really mean it. Showing your work to people helps. You can win people over that way.
I guess that's what you gotta do when your chosen profession is "artist" as well. After a couple years, when you're still doing it, people will start to take you seriously no matter how much money you make. Of course a regular income making art will help a lot since that's how people measure people, unfortunately.
Winning over your parents is hardest ;-)
BTW design is not making art for others, design is creating things with a function in mind. Art doesn't have to adhere to that limit. It is completely possible to make great art for yourself. Making art is pretty selfish, which might be another reason why some people look down on it, but on the flipside humans have always made art so much so that it became one of the pillars of humanity.
First they laugh at you, then they fight you...
that's really all you need for them to understand it's a real profession, they might think you are sitting in front of a computer coding art into the game
but at least most people know there is a lot of money in games and movies, so should be enough to make it sound professional.
Nonetheless, despite your answers, there's still something about calling myself (students) and hobbyists ''artists'' pretty weird...
Hope I'll change my perspective when I get older.
Does that mean you play games all day??
"Oh so you're an artist?"
"Yea I made some of the levels in Call of Duty"
"Woah really!? That's awesome!"
It doesn't matter what profession you are in people will never praise you for your potential, you only ever get praise from your output of work. People don't care how good you think you will be some day, they only care about how good you are right now.
Also as someone who was studying engineering I know first hand that engineers are extremely arrogant and will fall back on their proffession given any opportunity.
Relevant and not relevant- at least we're not so unlucky to be considered drawers like illustrators.
Dear OP what's wrong with the term artist?, WHAT IS IT? :'c
Wealthy professional like a doctor, lawyer etc.. ask me what I do, I tell them I'm an artist in the game industry, they turn into a 10 year old kid and get all starry eyed about how awesome that is.
Either way. Your work will speak for itself and your job title, whatever it might be is matter less. And just a way for people to be categoriesed in a profession.
p.s. A professional Cook is usually known as a Chef
And no, a professional cook is not a Chef. Chef is reserved for the head of a restaurant, usually. The art director of the kitchen. most people in kitchens are usually called line cooks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chef
You say "potato" and I say "potato". Thread derailed... Moving along....
And No...Animators are not artists they are strange folk that live neither in the dark nor the light. They should be approached with great care and only when absolutely necassary.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_van_Gogh
I find this inspiring. Van Gogh rarely lived according to what others expected of him, in fact he often acted like a crazy man. And then he went and did The Starry Night.
They call me a tech guy but I'll be very happy to call myself, and become, an artist. I don't care if others don't take me seriously, it's not about them. Being an artist is about ME.
But at the same time, I don't feel like people will get it if you say "I'm a video-game craftsman", so... There's that. But I do think treating as a craft instead of "art" will help people realize it isn't just a career of passion, and that we expect to be compensated fairly for our time. But then, unionizing would help that too.