Do People in Industry Use 3rd Party Scripts?

Axi5

Hi there,

Bit of a debate going on between me and my friend and honestly I don't know any more. Is it generally accepted for studios to use 3rd party scripts such as TexTools, in 3ds Max etc.? Unlicensed/Open Source/Free scripts are probably more related here, not big 3rd party tools like RayFire but any input on that end would be great too. I was under the impression that places like ScriptSpot were tech art industry hot spots to get cool new tools.

Are there any software packages that you wouldn't use in the industry if it weren't for scripts?

Justin Meisse

Yes, it's completely fine if it's free scripts from script spot and similar sites, if your cracking commercial scripts then you can land your employer in hot water.

Axi5

Yes of course, cracked scripts are out of the scope of this conversation, I'm on about strictly free to use or legally licensed scripts only.

I was just curious because my friend is under the impression that most studios force their artists/creators to only use the base vanilla programs, to some extent I can see it. When I did a work placement at a small company they didn't have such limitations though, so I was wondering if there were any security issues when dealing with a bigger company.

For instance are there any screenings for the scripts at all?

bugo

Hah, of course we use 3rd party scripts, why wouldn't we, whatever optimizes your time. I believe the more tools you have the less time it takes to do something.

Mossbros

I'm the friend.
Seeing as I can't defend myself by not saying anything, I want to re-iterate my point as you are only getting one side of the story lol.
I was saying that not knowing the legacy tools and relying on scripts can bite you in the ass. (which is why I try and force myself to only use scripts that I can do the legacy way) And If I can't I learn how to.
One of the things I put forward as an example was the fact that some servers don't update their scripts on all machines unless fully tested, so that security of only being able to do certain things with a script can mean the carpet is pulled from beneath you. 

Ie: Not knowing how PBR actually works because you use substance all day, and then going to a company that don't have it.

Axi5

Mossbros said:

I'm the friend.
Seeing as I can't defend myself by not saying anything, I want to re-iterate my point as you are only getting one side of the story lol.
I was saying that not knowing the legacy tools and relying on scripts can bite you in the ass. (which is why I try and force myself to only use scripts that I can do the legacy way) And If I can't I learn how to.
One of the things I put forward as an example was the fact that some servers don't update their scripts on all machines unless fully tested, so that security of only being able to do certain things with a script can mean the carpet is pulled from beneath you. 

Ie: Not knowing how PBR actually works because you use substance all day, and then going to a company that don't have it.

Yes this is my friend. Obviously what he says he does hold true, if the script fails you can rely on old methods to get you through. However, I don't think this discredits the use of any scripts at all @Mossbros you did at one point during our conversation write: "Some places don't allow you to run scripts" which I was most fixated on.

Justin Meisse

Every large studio I've been at has used soooooo many third party scripts along with internally developed scripts.  Maybe I'm just lucky but it seems like Max scripts have a long shelf life, scripts that haven't been updated in 7 years still work on recent versions.

Mossbros

Does anyone have any experience to chime in on the Maya side of things, as at my university we have issues applying certain scripts to the server installation so the script can work on all machines, as it can sometimes cause insatiability within the program. 

My main thing about "some things aren't allowed to be installed" is talking about compatibility issues and the fact that some things might cause bugs which can cripple computers. One example of this is the way our univeristy network is with scripts, you can run most locally but in order to have it on the master version (server so everyone has the tool) it needs to be tested as it can as has cause problems not for one, but for all.

Aasmund1986

Weta even develope their own tools for one purpose when they need it. Thats called "in-house tool". In The Hobbit production they developed a tool they named "Lumberjack" just to create custom collision for threes in Mirkwood so the spiders and cast could fall down, when using CGI.

Bek

Mossbros said:

Ie: Not knowing how PBR actually works because you use substance all day, and then going to a company that don't have it.

If so, that's clearly the users fault — they've failed to learn from their practical experience. That's got nothing to do with using x or y software exclusively. It's like people saying dDo is bad because without it people won't know what they're doing. Well duh, if your expertise is applying presets and calling it done of course you're not going to be adept without those presets — but that's entirely your fault for being lazy and not learning by experiment and/OR (not only) theory.

Scripts can automate tedious and specific tasks; they shouldn't be avoided unless they cause more problems than they solve, like with the technical/stability issues you mention. But to blame software for an individuals incapacity to learn is misguided.

RyanB

I worked for a developer that had a contract with a publisher that did not allow the use of freeware and open source.  Included in that was free scripts from Scriptspot and similar places.  There was no audit of software used so they didn't know if I did or did not use freeware.

Bellsey

Many studios will use scripts/tools in their pipelines, some 3rd Party, some in-house. Some restrict admin rights on workstations to stop people from downloading and installing stuff from wherever. I get and agree with that, as there is a risk that people start using stuff that could be buggy and not properly supported. There's also a issue if some people becoming too reliant on some tool and script and if upgrading Maya/Max, it's no longer supported or works.

However, I've known some places allow people to submit scripts for wider usage, which allows for some testing so if ok, it's rolled out studio wide. Personally I like this approach and it's always a good idea to audit your scripts/tools anyway.

Axi5

Bellsey said:

Many studios will use scripts/tools in their pipelines, some 3rd Party, some in-house. Some restrict admin rights on workstations to stop people from downloading and installing stuff from wherever. I get and agree with that, as there is a risk that people start using stuff that could be buggy and not properly supported. There's also a issue if some people becoming too reliant on some tool and script and if upgrading Maya/Max, it's no longer supported or works.

However, I've known some places allow people to submit scripts for wider usage, which allows for some testing so if ok, it's rolled out studio wide. Personally I like this approach and it's always a good idea to audit your scripts/tools anyway.

To put to bed the debate with my friend, I think this nails our discussion. I think we were looking at this from different sides of the coin, I think me and him were both under the impression that what Bellsey said here was pretty much industry standard but for some (festive season reasons on my part) weren't communicating it effectively to each other. The last thing I want to do is make @Mossbros look bad, he does know what he's on about and I listen to him a lot, I woke up to this and felt pretty bad.

passerby

Most studios will have TA's so if the studio dosnt allow each artists to install 3rd party scripts you can likely talk to the TA and either have them test said script or to have him understand the problem it solves so he can write something for the studio to use. As a former TA half my job was understanding the workflow of the artists and improving the workflow and pipeline where i see it needs work.

Axi5

passerby said:

Most studios will have TA's so if the studio dosnt allow each artists to install 3rd party scripts you can likely talk to the TA and either have them test said script or to have him understand the problem it solves so he can write something for the studio to use. As a former TA half my job was understanding the workflow of the artists and improving the workflow and pipeline where i see it needs work.

I should probably start a new thread for this but since you mentioned it. I'm starting to aim toward being to be a TA someday, do you have any advice? I know a few scripting languages and have been trying to write scripts like crazy recently. Do you think I should focus my efforts into a big project to get me noticed or smaller ones?

Eric Chadwick

@Axi5 said:

I should probably start a new thread for this but since you mentioned it. I'm starting to aim toward being to be a TA someday, do you have any advice? I know a few scripting languages and have been trying to write scripts like crazy recently. Do you think I should focus my efforts into a big project to get me noticed or smaller ones?

About getting started, we have some good info here, in the Links section.
http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Technical_Art

StormyBA

Anything that speeds up your work is a good thing and gets used a lot. A lot of stuff is judged by man hours, if a 3rd party script saves you 5 days work in a month long project then yes your going to use that script. If that script does not exist but it takes a programmer 1 day to create that script then the benifit of saving 5 days at time at the expensive of 1 days code time is again a good deal. 

Also bare in mind that a lot of scripts around are using a compiled bunch of basic tools that already exist in an application anyrate. I've got a clear empty nodes script in Modo. One click tidy's all the crap out of the scene, i can do this same job manually but it takes ages. In fact you could say that most default tools in any application are just scripts made up of a selection of more simple tools. Bevel is just a mix of extrude + scale.