I'd say the fact that the movie hits pretty much the same story beats as a new hope is a very deliberate attempt to banish the prequels from people's minds as well as remind people and get others up to speed with a movie that came out a long, long time ago. I think the probably overdid it, really, but I can understand why they'd play it super safe. The Autodesk guy who organised our showing said that Disney have a 40 year plan for Starwars. 40. They've got a lot riding on this, so they're going to take it easy for a start.
All that said, I think it works ok. It's not a spectacular film, but it hits the tone of the original trilogy pretty well and made for a fun and entertaining movie, which I think is the best that could have been hoped for. I do hope they mix things up a bit and take a few more risks with the subsequent episodes and spinoffs.
I think my favourite moment was the deliberate ending of all that "Han shot first" malarkey on the freighter. Han turns to escape from the shoggoth and then comes back to throw the bad guy into its mouth.
When I saw the old deathstar size, compared to the new one I was like holy crap! It should have ended when they figured out that R2D2 had the rest of the map and save the rest for the last movies.
I was kind of hoping they would fail to stop the new death star so it would at least be something different. How many times can you invest all those resources into a super weapon that gets blown up by 5 X-Wings?
I'd say the fact that the movie hits pretty much the same story beats as a new hope is a very deliberate attempt to banish the prequels from people's minds as well as remind people and get others up to speed with a movie that came out a long, long time ago.
I don't know, apparently Hayden Christensen was almost in the film, and still might be for episode VIII. Also, Ewan McGreggor is actually in the film as a voice over.
In any case, intentional or not, It's a safe film and very much a product of marketing. Hopefully the next one shakes things up.
I assumed R2 was put into 'standby mode' by Luke, or whoever put in the missing piece. I forget what occurred, at the moment that R2 woke, but I thought something just happened, which could have triggered him (especially if he was observing things, while in low power mode).
the movie was basically a carbon copy of a new hope. it's well crafted, but still just a copy. it's disappointing to me that after seeing the TFA, the only imagery that still stuck with me are shots that pretty much were 1:1 to shots in the first star wars movie. This movie didn't give me anything new, it had no interesting ideas and didn't have any personality or vision except for recreating the original. I expected this to happen, jj abrams just isn't capable of being anything but a mediocre director who is great at imitation. he is a coward of a director.
I actually even prefer TPM as a movie. I don't like tpm but at least it tried to push new ideas and I respect that Lucas showed bravery in making the movie he wanted to make instead of trying to recreate the structure of the original movies. I did like the new actors though.
the movie was basically a carbon copy of a new hope. it's well crafted, but still just a copy. it's disappointing to me that after seeing the TFA, the only imagery that still stuck with me are shots that pretty much were 1:1 to shots in the first star wars movie. This movie didn't give me anything new, it had no interesting ideas and didn't have any personality or vision except for recreating the original. I expected this to happen, jj abrams just isn't capable of being anything but a mediocre director who is great at imitation. he is a coward of a director.
I actually even prefer TPM as a movie. I don't like tpm but at least it tried to push new ideas and I respect that Lucas showed bravery in making the movie he wanted to make instead of trying to recreate the structure of the original movies. I did like the new actors though.
wut , if he was a coward im sure as shit he wouldnt be directing the two most famous franchises of all time that have the biggest fan scrutiny...
I think I'd rank this as the 4th best Star Wars movie after the original trilogy. I have to watch the Ewok specials again but from my memory I'd rank them ahead of the prequels, which I've only seen once each.
wut , if he was a coward im sure as shit he wouldnt be directing the two most famous franchises of all time that have the biggest fan scrutiny...
that's exactly why he got the job to direct those movies. As a film maker all he does is to imitate/copy. TFA is an engineered effort to remake ANH with different plot.
And honestly, the star trek reboot is possibly the worst handling of an IP i've seen on that scale. It's like they didn't even bother to understand what people like about star trek and instead set out to make the most generic plot driven sci-fi flick ever. But I'm kinda ok with it because it's stated to be a reboot/alternate timeline/reimagining. TFA is supposed to be canon, the real sequel. Without the involvement and approval of lucas, it has no legitimacy as such.
Just like Lucas then. All the star wars movies are basically an amalgamation of a ton of other stuff. Even the pod racing sequence in APM is a shot for shot "homage" (*cough*) to Flåklypa Grand Prix
Without the involvement and approval of lucas, it has no legitimacy as such.
lol, says who? Lucas sold the franchise, the canon can be whatever Disney wants it to be. Add to that that the ideas Lucas introduced in the prequels severely damaged the IP. It's a very good thing that new people are in charge of the franchise at this point, because Lucas would only have done more damage to it
lol, says who? Lucas sold the franchise,the canon can be whatever Disney wants it to be. Add to that that the ideas Lucas introduced in the prequels severely damaged the IP. It's a very good thing that new people are in charge of the franchise at this point, because Lucas would only have done more damage to it
you and I have very different ideas about what artistic legitimacy is.
"Artistic legitimacy" is a meaningless term when Lucas has sold off the rights to his IP, because the legitimacy of the new movies is part of what Lucas sold off.
Just like Lucas then. All the star wars movies are basically an amalgamation of a ton of other stuff. Even the pod racing sequence in APM is a shot for shot "homage" (*cough*) to Flåklypa Grand Prix
Is this post some kind of joke? You're comparing Lucas' extremely varied and esoteric film references to Abrams wholesale imitation of a film within the same series?
That one is a really weird comparison to make. The podrace scene is not a "swipe", but rather an ode to classic car race cinema all around--Lucas is DEFINITELY borrowing the familiar shot progression of car race films, but purposefully--to make the whole thing grounded in familiarity. I didn't know that formula had its origins in Flaklypa, (something I'm skeptical of, actually..dig around in pre-1975s film and you probably would find similar shot progressions). Likewise, you'd find similar shots in Days of Thunder, Cars, and other race car films. If you want to talk about Lucas borrowing elements, I'd focus more on Hidden Fortress.... There have been many a grad school thesis written on Lucas' callbacks to Kurosawa.
"Varied and esoteric film references" sure... that's one way to put it. Unimaginative and lazy is another. Lucas cannibalized a lot from the original trilogy in the prequels as well. And there's the whole "it's like poetry" thing that Lucas still gets ridiculed for. The difference is that when Lucas did it, it only seemed to devalue the IP further, every callback cheapened the original. The way Abrams did it - judging by the reviews and general reception - it seems to have brought back enthusiasm for the franchise again. That was his job as a director.
People here are claiming all Abrams does as a director is "imitate/copy." That should be the abandon thread moment. People claiming that have obviously no idea what it means to direct a movie. Just going by the kind of performances Abrams gets from his actors compared to Lucas shows how much better a director he is. Then there's the reintroduction of physicality to the Star Wars universe, which Abrams was responsible for. The first scenes on Jakku is better than anything in the prequels as far as I'm concerned. I mean, I could go on and on about how shit the prequels are and how badly they are made, but it'd probably be more entertaining to just go see the Mr. Plinkett reviews
My theory is Rei is Kylo's sister, they seemed to recognize each other. And Kylo was like 'she will only get more powerful as time passes' or something like that while she was breaking out. Since there's an element of mind control in this movie, you could imagine Rei was also a jedi trainee, but Kylo force brain-washed her to think she was abandoned on Jakku and that her parents are coming back. As a way of getting her out of the way.
wouldn't Leia and Solo recognize her as well?
I think they did recognize her. I think it's why Solo offered her a job so quickly, as well as when the tavern keeper asked "who's the girl?" he got a look on his face, and you dont see what he says. But the scene is the tavern keeper going down to lukes light saber. It's why I think she is lukes daughter, not kylo's sister. Definitely in the skywalker family, though. I mean, how did the tavern keeper know she was down there? I think she was just going down to get the light saber, and happened to find her down there.
Maz Kanata is force sensitive and somewhat all-seeing. You don't get to run a tavern crawling with pirate scum and stay out of trouble for 1000 years without some kind of gift like that
Lucas is the second largest sole share holder of Disney stock. He also consulted on the latest stars wars film. He was involved.
He was involved as a consultant in pre-production. He proposed a story draft that was discarded because disney wanted to make a movie for the fans.
In November 2015, Lucas said that Disney was "not that keen" to involve him and conceded: "If I get in there, I'm just going to cause trouble because they're not going to do what I want them to do, and I don't have the control to do that any more, and all it would do is just muck everything up."In December 2015, after the film's release, he said: "They wanted to do a retro movie. I don't like that. Every movie, I worked very hard to make them different ... I made them completely different—different planets, different spaceships to make it new."
You know, Sith doesn't like sand... let alone sand planets. That's why it's safe to hide Luke and Rey out there. Remember what Anakin said to Padme ? He doesn't like sand, it's coarse and not smooth ?
That's getting a little overly circuitous with their storyline for my liking. I'm kinda hoping that's not what they're going towards.
I prefer the theory that suggests ... [spoiler]that Rey is cloned from DNA taken from Luke, possibly from the hand that got chopped off. That still gives you your siblings reference, between Rey and Kylo which seems like it'd likely be a more interesting narrative, comparing and contrasting the two opposed siblings. [/spoiler]
That's getting a little overly circuitous with their storyline for my liking. I'm kinda hoping that's not what they're going towards.
I prefer the theory that suggests ... [spoiler]that Rey is cloned from DNA taken from Luke, possibly from the hand that got chopped off. That still gives you your siblings reference, between Rey and Kylo which seems like it'd likely be a more interesting narrative, comparing and contrasting the two opposed siblings. [/spoiler]
If so, I'd be quite pissed... [spoiler] - I'm no expert, but why clone a genderbent Luke Skywalker from the hand ? - There's already a Luke Skywalker clone from his chopped off hand in the Expanded Universe. But we all know Disney shat on most of EU stuff, simply because they can. [/spoiler]
[spoiler]I think having Rey and Kylo half-siblings works well with the arc and themes they've got going so far. Rey could be Luke's kid and you'd still wind up with that setup, but it seems a smidgen on the nose. [/spoiler] I dunno. I'm not a StarWars guy. I'll leave the conspiracy theorising to the rest of you.
Replies
All that said, I think it works ok. It's not a spectacular film, but it hits the tone of the original trilogy pretty well and made for a fun and entertaining movie, which I think is the best that could have been hoped for. I do hope they mix things up a bit and take a few more risks with the subsequent episodes and spinoffs.
I think my favourite moment was the deliberate ending of all that "Han shot first" malarkey on the freighter. Han turns to escape from the shoggoth and then comes back to throw the bad guy into its mouth. You mean Leia and Ren.
I don't see how Rey comes into that, but Klyo isn't a prince either, he's just someone born to a politically powerful and influential parent.
While speaking of R2, why didnt he shut down CP30 too?
In any case, intentional or not, It's a safe film and very much a product of marketing. Hopefully the next one shakes things up.
it's disappointing to me that after seeing the TFA, the only imagery that still stuck with me are shots that pretty much were 1:1 to shots in the first star wars movie. This movie didn't give me anything new, it had no interesting ideas and didn't have any personality or vision except for recreating the original. I expected this to happen, jj abrams just isn't capable of being anything but a mediocre director who is great at imitation. he is a coward of a director.
I actually even prefer TPM as a movie. I don't like tpm but at least it tried to push new ideas and I respect that Lucas showed bravery in making the movie he wanted to make instead of trying to recreate the structure of the original movies.
I did like the new actors though.
And honestly, the star trek reboot is possibly the worst handling of an IP i've seen on that scale. It's like they didn't even bother to understand what people like about star trek and instead set out to make the most generic plot driven sci-fi flick ever. But I'm kinda ok with it because it's stated to be a reboot/alternate timeline/reimagining. TFA is supposed to be canon, the real sequel. Without the involvement and approval of lucas, it has no legitimacy as such.
you and I have very different ideas about what artistic legitimacy is.
"Artistic legitimacy" is a meaningless term when Lucas has sold off the rights to his IP, because the legitimacy of the new movies is part of what Lucas sold off.
(abandon thread abandon thread)
People here are claiming all Abrams does as a director is "imitate/copy." That should be the abandon thread moment. People claiming that have obviously no idea what it means to direct a movie. Just going by the kind of performances Abrams gets from his actors compared to Lucas shows how much better a director he is. Then there's the reintroduction of physicality to the Star Wars universe, which Abrams was responsible for. The first scenes on Jakku is better than anything in the prequels as far as I'm concerned. I mean, I could go on and on about how shit the prequels are and how badly they are made, but it'd probably be more entertaining to just go see the Mr. Plinkett reviews
He was involved as a consultant in pre-production. He proposed a story draft that was discarded because disney wanted to make a movie for the fans.
In November 2015, Lucas said that Disney was "not that keen" to involve him and conceded: "If I get in there, I'm just going to cause trouble because they're not going to do what I want them to do, and I don't have the control to do that any more, and all it would do is just muck everything up."In December 2015, after the film's release, he said: "They wanted to do a retro movie. I don't like that. Every movie, I worked very hard to make them different ... I made them completely different—different planets, different spaceships to make it new."
edit: quoting is broken....
I prefer the theory that suggests ...
[spoiler]that Rey is cloned from DNA taken from Luke, possibly from the hand that got chopped off. That still gives you your siblings reference, between Rey and Kylo which seems like it'd likely be a more interesting narrative, comparing and contrasting the two opposed siblings.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler]
- I'm no expert, but why clone a genderbent Luke Skywalker from the hand ?
- There's already a Luke Skywalker clone from his chopped off hand in the Expanded Universe. But we all know Disney shat on most of EU stuff, simply because they can.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler]I think having Rey and Kylo half-siblings works well with the arc and themes they've got going so far. Rey could be Luke's kid and you'd still wind up with that setup, but it seems a smidgen on the nose.
[/spoiler]
I dunno. I'm not a StarWars guy. I'll leave the conspiracy theorising to the rest of you.