Weird Normal Map result

ToRuKMactO

I am working on a project using MODO and its a really nice software to work with, everything was OK(almost everything) until I got this bad normal map result running XnormalThe first image is my HighPoly. I am pretty confident that there is no problem about meshes positions, my smoothing groups are correct(at least the way I splitted them) and I export by xnormal MAYA plugin, its pretty much the same workflow that I've been using lately, only difference is MODO. So, Does MODO have a different Tangent Space ?? Those exports between apps could cause some issues ???

I also tried enlarge my UV shells and nothing changed, any ideias ???

Scruples

I don't think this is Modo's fault, looks like a combination of angles too high for the baker to pick up, low amount of map space/low samples and skewing.

Topic on Skewing - http://polycount.com/discussion/147227/skew-you-buddy-making-sense-of-skewed-normal-map-details

ToRuKMactO

Thank you for the topic reference, but I dont think its about amount of space or sample sizes because I baked in a much higher samples and got the same result, and there is no skewing at all, the detail are pretty loyal to my high poly but they have a bad result(I don't have a clue what is causing this). Wasn't clear to me when you mentioned ängles too high for the baker to pick up".

I did some blend with AO map

Scruples

A baker can't pick up angles nearing 90 degree's, it will look bad. So you'll have to reduce the angles in your highpoly.

ActionDawg

Firstly you can't blend AO into a normal map, unless you're just trying to visualize the difference? Secondly, a baker can pick up 90 degree angles. I use 90 degree angles constantly without issue. For example, the UV islands on this mesh are only split by smoothing group changes:

Despite having many 90 degree changes across the middle cylindrical section (top right in the UV sheet) you can see that causes no issues with the bake itself.

The problems come from the topology being very different from high to low and not having enough geometry to control potential skewing. Alternatively you can have problems from the fact that normal maps are currently standardized as 8 bit images, limiting the accuracy of the normal information that's stored, but that isn't going to affect your model here.

This thread stickied at the top of technical talk answers your questions:
http://polycount.com/discussion/81154/understanding-averaged-normals-and-ray-projection-who-put-waviness-in-my-normal-map#latest

ToRuKMactO

I also have baked a couple of 90 degrees details and haven't had any problem with that, the point of my question/issue is not about if the projection is correct or not, if its skewed or not, I would easily trade these issues for those that I am facing right now. The problem is there is almost no normal map to be seen, its like a 512x512 texture resolution, its just a basic bake, I could have done this bake by a ray trace calculator(which I tried as well and got the same bad result) and should work.Its a tire, both High/Low polys are pretty close on their shapes, just a couple of extrusions and bevels.I don't know, its really weird to me, I really don't have any idea about what would be causing it, thats why I thought that could have had some relationship with MODO, I tried to reshape the high poly and some test creating new meshes directly from MAYA baking a similar projection and worked, I am stuck here I guess

Neox

is your cage/raydistance far enough? looks sorta like it clips away

ToRuKMactO

Neox said:

is your cage/raydistance far enough? looks sorta like it clips away

it is, i use cage from 3D viewer from Xnormal, global extrusion

ActionDawg

You must just have your high poly edges too sharp? I couldn't tell what problem you were having at first. If it's just that the normals are not strong enough for you, try beveling or rounding the edges.

And I see what Scruples was saying now, he was just agreeing about edges being too sharp. Can we see the high poly as well? Can you upload the meshes?

Scruples

Normal map's literally don't see anything @ 90 degree's (and over) as it's perpendicular to the surface. Here's a very basic example of what's happening, the baker see's what's on the left side while the geometry is on the right.

ToRuKMactO

Thank you both for your replies, Scruples is right about 90 degrees but must be a precisely this angle(like trying to bake a extrusion with no subdivision) but using holding edges or bevels usually is not 90 degrees anymore) and maybe as SomeDoggy said my edges are too sharp. I used to apply holding edges manually on MAYA but on MODO you have much more accuracy controlling distance between the hard edge, and maybe I made them too close each either

Here is my upload
http://www.mediafire.com/download/ie8bi3wobsb8e67/HP_Tire.obj
http://www.mediafire.com/download/yf0miz0odbc586l/LP_Tire.obj

ToRuKMactO

I rebuilt my HighPoly and now I got a correct result, probably the problem was that I subdivided once for details on the front part and after, only one more subdivision, those edges got too sharp and xnormal couldn't read them. Thank you guys for your help!!!