Having massive trouble PBR texturing. Help needed please

shearer157

Working on a cool little asset for practice, relatively new to Zbrush so the sculpting is pretty new to me. I'm happy with it, obviously needs work but the problems i'm having with it I have no idea how to fix. But enough about the sculpt, the real problem i'm having is texturing.

I'm unsure, generally, how to go about it trying to get a PBr look. I've never really tried it and thought this would be simple, with a mainly dull oxidized bronze texture blended with a shiny bronze on the corners and darker areas towards the bottom, but its all coming out awful.

Texturing is definitely a weak point for me and i'd love some tips to improve. I use Quixel Suite, although, for me, most of the time it's awful, useless and a waste of time. Never seems to do what I need it to!

How should I go about this? Thanks in advance. I've created a small folder on imgur for you to see my sculpt and the maps/ quickie in engine:

http://imgur.com/a/SdmZn

Thanks in advance all!!
Ryan

Maxilator

I learned it by using programs like ddo or substance painter, when you have seen how the different maps looks a few times you start to understand how it works. This link will probably be pretty helpful to understand how pbr works: http://www.marmoset.co/toolbag/learn/pbr-practice

Doxturtle

you need to create the other maps like gloss and metallic

xChris

I would do some substance painter tutorials so you can get a better idea of how pbr works, substance is much more fluid in texturing than in ddo imo. Here's a good one by Christophe Desse to get you started quick:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkp9G9lH_wQ"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkp9G9lH_wQ[/ame]

harry1511

From your reference, I can see the object has paint layer, and bronze underneath. I would set up exactly how it is: a first bronze layer that cover entire object, then a paint layer on top WITH custom mask (grunge mask, or even hand painted mask) that will reveal the bronze layer underneath => simulate the way the paint got chipped away and reveal the raw material.

And like Doxturtle said, you will need specular and gloss map if you go with Spec/Gloss workflow, or metal and roughness map if you use Metal/Rough workflow (both are PBR).

I no longer use Quixel since their early versions, so I can't speak for it, but from Substance Painter, a layer (as I mentioned above) will not only contain diffuse information, but also height/spec/gloss...etc as well. In this way, every time you paint, you will paint MATERIAL, not only color. I think Quixel now has a similar way too, but not sure.

shearer157

I'm just trying to figure all of this out, it's terrifying there is too much haha. But thank you all. I'd love to give Substance a go but it's too expensive for me as of right now, so i'm trying to learn it old fashioned but it's not going too well!

Harry it's a good tip, I should think about it like that. I'll give it a go and see if it works out. Cheers

BeardedMike

I am getting used to the PBR workflow myself, This is a project I reference often here on polycount that has helped me understand it greatly.

stevston89's dagger (<- Thanks BTW if you happen to see this!)
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=135431

He provides you with the files and whatnot to take a look at. The dagger is so beautifully stylized it makes it easy to tell what each of the maps is doing. Hope this helps!

clinington

I also looked at stevston89's dagger when I was trying to get to grips with PBR. It's a great resource and looking at each of the maps should help increase your understanding and knowledge. It might also be worthwhile trying to recreate something similar to help you learn what to put in each map etc.

Sukotto

That link BeardedMike posted is gold! Try not to get too intimidated with PBR, its really not too different from earlier rendering practices, just the texture maps are slightly different.

Since you're still new to PBR and texturing I think adding Substance into the mix is too much to learn at one time. Get more comfortable texturing in Photoshop then move on to Substance.

The Marmoset website has a nice breakdown of PBR http://www.marmoset.co/toolbag/learn/pbr-practice

It's pretty technical sounding and kinda confusing, much like a programmer trying to communicate with an artist. Swizzle posted an image somewhere thats very simple. I'll try to find it for ya!

shearer157

Sukotto wrote: »

That link BeardedMike posted is gold! Try not to get too intimidated with PBR, its really not too different from earlier rendering practices, just the texture maps are slightly different.

Since you're still new to PBR and texturing I think adding Substance into the mix is too much to learn at one time. Get more comfortable texturing in Photoshop then move on to Substance.

The Marmoset website has a nice breakdown of PBR http://www.marmoset.co/toolbag/learn/pbr-practice

It's pretty technical sounding and kinda confusing, much like a programmer trying to communicate with an artist. Swizzle posted an image somewhere thats very simple. I'll try to find it for ya!

Thanks dude that'd be great!

Obscura

I just want to point out two (actually three) another issues. Maybe you should start with fixing those before going any deeper with texturing. Your lowpoly models are all hard edged, this is why the lowpoly wireframe is visible on your normalmap. That could work, even if its really not recommended, but then at least you'd need to detach every single face on the uvmap to get proper result.After taking a look at your lowpoly model, the proper way to smooth it would be to give it all smooth edges. Also your uvmap is very messy. A lot of faces are randomly detached from the rest. So first I'd uv the model properly, then smooth it properly, then bake a normalmap properly. Then its okay to continue with learning pbr .

shearer157

Obscura wrote: »

I just want to point out two (actually three) another issues. Maybe you should start with fixing those before going any deeper with texturing. Your lowpoly models are all hard edged, this is why the lowpoly wireframe is visible on your normalmap. That could work, even if its really not recommended, but then at least you'd need to detach every single face on the uvmap to get proper result.After taking a look at your lowpoly model, the proper way to smooth it would be to give it all smooth edges. Also your uvmap is very messy. A lot of faces are randomly detached from the rest. So first I'd uv the model properly, then smooth it properly, then bake a normalmap properly. Then its okay to continue with learning pbr .

Appreciate the feedback! Thanks. If you don't mind could you go into a little detail about what being hard edged is? Does that just need the normals aren't softened? Whenever I soften the normals in maya the normal map doesn't work anymore! I want to go back and really work on the model in Zbrush so I might re-do it completely. Cheers

RaptorCWS

SuperFranky Has a great breakdown on a lot of what you need to know about normal maps.

http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146667

There is also a ton on it in the wiki. Its a lot of info to take in so dont freak out when you see a ton of text. after a while it becomes second nature.

http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Normal_map#3D_Workflow


But short answer yes if you have a hard edge on the model and it does not have a seam on the uv you will get a nasty artifact.

shearer157

RaptorCWS wrote: »

SuperFranky Has a great breakdown on a lot of what you need to know about normal maps.

http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146667

There is also a ton on it in the wiki. Its a lot of info to take in so dont freak out when you see a ton of text. after a while it becomes second nature.

http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Normal_map#3D_Workflow


But short answer yes if you have a hard edge on the model and it does not have a seam on the uv you will get a nasty artifact.

Awesome. Text is probably the easiest personal way for me to learn, so this is great. Thank you

Tectonic

shearer157 wrote: »

Appreciate the feedback! Thanks. If you don't mind could you go into a little detail about what being hard edged is? Does that just need the normals aren't softened? Whenever I soften the normals in maya the normal map doesn't work anymore! I want to go back and really work on the model in Zbrush so I might re-do it completely. Cheers

you may want to re-bake the normal map after softening your normals.

Sugus

If you are new to PBR texturing it could be worth reading the Allegorithmic PBR guides.

It's a really well put together guide that will go over the theory and practice of the texturing process.

I personally use Substance now for my texturing as I find it really powerful and flexible. Just dive into the texturing process and don't be afraid to make mistakes and remember that it will initially take some time to get good results but just keep at it and they will come.

shearer157

Sugus wrote: »

If you are new to PBR texturing it could be worth reading the Allegorithmic PBR guides.

It's a really well put together guide that will go over the theory and practice of the texturing process.

I personally use Substance now for my texturing as I find it really powerful and flexible. Just dive into the texturing process and don't be afraid to make mistakes and remember that it will initially take some time to get good results but just keep at it and they will come.

That was actually really good to read (The comment). It's a long road! Cheers for the link too.

itzaspace

substance painter and marmoset toolbag 2 for me are the best for PBR and textures
you can fin in youtube video tutorials of both programs by their own company