Doubt about a Lord of the Rings VideoGame large as Skyrim.

Pachinno

Hi to everyone. I want to discuss some hypothetical topic about the legal framework sorrounding the producction of a videogame. If a big community of game artist, coders, designers and so on wanted to create a videogame using a license like Lord Of the Rings, would be that legal?

Understanding that they would be using such a free engine like Cry or UE or Unity and with no money paid, and free to distribute and download.

I think this is a complicated issue, and i dont have any idea about this, if someone knows something about this information would be very appreciated.

What i think is... People wants a game like skyrim, in the lord of the rings world, so a independent project, made by enthusiasts, there's no reason to be illegal because they are making what they want for themselves non profit intended, so for me it would be okay, because Warner is not doing such a game. Yes they did Shadow of Mordor, but it felt more like Assassins Creed, i think what community wants is a vast game about middle earth.

So ideas? hypothetically speaking of course.

SnowInChina

no.

doesnt matter if its non profit or whatsoever.
contact the ip holder and ask permission, if they say no, move on.

RobeOmega

http://kotaku.com/5939383/gorgeous-lord-of-the-rings-themed-skyrim-mod-project-ends-after-cease--desist-order-from-warner-brothers

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2012/10/05/62775-warner-bros-shut-down-free-skyrim-lord-of-the-rings-mod/

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Warner-Bros-Shuts-Down-Fan-Made-Skyrim-Lord-Rings-Mod-46799.html

http://www.moddb.com/mods/merp-middle-earth-roleplaying-project

Already done, already shut down by the owners of Lord of the Ring

Deathstick

You could always move to a country where the ip and copyright laws have no legal jurisdiction! AKA why so many television shows and movies are streamed from foreign websites. o_O

Pachinno

Thank you all for the info. But is fanfiction legal?. Because there's a lot of it. How could be fanfiction legal but a fanvideogame ilegal, anyway...

Even if it is not a serious game for a AAA industry does it really injure the IP Holder. And what if is not public. So what is ilegal is to publish. Isnt it? Because if no one knows xD

LMP

Pachinno wrote: »

is fanfiction legal?

It's complicated... https://www.standoutbooks.com/fan-fiction-legal/

Pachinno

Yeah it looks complicated, but what do you think about Sakimi Chan, in Deviant ART and Patreon. She is earning a lot of money, and she always publish characters that dont belong to her or at least i doubt that she has the rights, at least at the begining. Someone can explain why she can do that and, the fans of lotr couldnt do the mod for skyrim?

ZacD

Profiting directly off of someone else's IP is pretty much always illegal. Some companies embrace fan art, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_issues_with_fan_fiction

Pachinno

ZacD wrote: »

Profiting directly off of someone else's IP is pretty much always illegal. Some companies embrace fan art, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_issues_with_fan_fiction

thats why i m telling non-profit

ZacD

Well. it goes beyond that, anything that could damage their IP, or could confuse content consumers counts as copyright infringement.

PolyHertz

Even if you're on the right side of the law, they have multi million dollar lawyers and you don't. No fan project is ever truly safe.

Pachinno

ZacD wrote: »

Well. it goes beyond that, anything that could damage their IP, or could confuse content consumers counts as copyright infringement.

But the main thing, is why some can do stuff like this http://sakimichan.deviantart.com/art/Link-X-Dark-Link-WARNING-YAOI-teaser-563312274
Nintendo would never allow this in a legal way.

PolyHertz

Sakimichan is taking what you would call a calculated risk: She knows Nintendo could go after her, but will they bother? In general, fan videos and games attract lawyers and DMCA notices like bees to honey, artwork itself (whether it be 2D or 3D) however is generally left alone.

Odow

Pachinno wrote: »

Yeah it looks complicated, but what do you think about Sakimi Chan, in Deviant ART and Patreon. She is earning a lot of money, and she always publish characters that dont belong to her or at least i doubt that she has the rights, at least at the begining. Someone can explain why she can do that and, the fans of lotr couldnt do the mod for skyrim?

It's really not legal, it's just that disney haven't do anything about it yet , the day the legal department decide to take this matter into their hands she's going to have hugeeeeeeeeeeeee problems. It's probably going under radar because it's really a gray area since she's not really selling the artwork directly.

It's not like she was selling at convention making a few buck, she wins more then a specialize doctor with those character. I'm really surprise no one used her as an example yet.

RogerP

I think the bottom line is pretty clear:

1. Ask for permission from the IP owner or

2. Take the risky way, make it and live with the possibility of the owner come and say "That's not yours"

Pachinno

I understand, calculated risk, As we say in Spain, Sakimi has more "face" than "back", that means that she's dishonest, because she lectured Kronprinz (from DEVIantart too) for selling paintings and she s taking calculated risks, "smart" girl, thats a diferent, "legal" way for doing the same (i find both guilty), and creators that want to make a dreamed game with their own effort and risk are not allowed, thats... no words.

So i understand whoever want to make a fangame has/have to take calculated risks, or ask for the IP, but knowing Christopher Tolkien or Warner Bros. will never let do that, but theorically in around 2045 lotr will be free of rights, isnt it?

Equanim

Does Sakimichan actually sell prints of copyrighted work? I thought she was making her money from tutorials lately.

Pretty much any fan fiction could be seen as damaging to an IP because the owner could argue that the fan is attempting to establish canon content. If the fan made content conflicts or overlaps with how the owner wanted the IP to develop, it could lead to negative reviews or a frustrated audience, which would damage sales and thus damage the IP financially. The owner could then sue you for damages, not just your profits.

Beard3D Bandit

What about modding Skyrim until your eyeballs bleed.

Okay, I wouldn't wish anyones eyeballs to bleed, and yes there are limitations, but why no simply change a load of areas in Skyrim? Hell...re plan the geography of the land that is Skyrim and re build areas that are lore friendly to LOTRs?

I'd love to see the Shire in Skyrim...OOPS I mean LOTRs mod for Skyrim

Edit: And make it free of course

pangaea

http://rephial.org/

Angband is a really popular roguelike probably the third most popular in terms of roguelikes. It has been going for years and it has not been shut down. Angband is set in LOTR universe and features Morgoth, Sauron and Smeagol. However, it probably not worth Warner Brothers time to even write to them shutting this down unlike say someone making a Skyrim mod that is LOTR themed and it gets super popular or gets a huge mod team.

claydough

much of fantasy fiction and art is inspired LOTR universe anyway that as long as u make no reference to it I don't see how copyright holders could realistically differentiate your game.
( otherwise most fantasy genre works would have disappeared a long time ago? )

LOTR does not own orcs dragons wizards and goblins...

Take a cue from Dungeons an Dragons creator Gary Gygax after the LOTR lawsuit threat and rename things:
hobbits = halflings
ent = treant
balrog = Balor
Seems enough has worked for TSR and Hasbro?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sources_and_influences_on_the_development_of_Dungeons_%26_Dragons

The theme of D&D was influenced by mythology, pulp fiction, and contemporary fantasy authors of the 1960s and 1970s. The presence of halflings, elves, dwarves, half-elves, orcs, rangers and the like often draw comparisons to the work of J. R. R. Tolkien. The resemblance was even closer before the threat of copyright action from Tolkien Enterprises prompted the name changes of hobbit to 'halfling', ent to 'treant', and balrog to 'balor'. Gygax maintained that he was influenced very little by The Lord of the Rings, stating that he included these elements as a marketing move to draw on the popularity of the work[6][7] However, in an interview in 2000, he acknowledged that Tolkien had a "strong impact".[8]

Maybe hexagonal doors for yer Hobbit alternative etc etc.
Also there have been many different flavors of LOTR by different artists.
Have u checked out the works of the Brothers Hildebrandt?

u shall not pass

Otherwise there are no copyrights on Dragons, orcs and Goblins.
Should yer Wizards look like Merlin or Gandalf? ( with long grey beard, staff and cloak I don't know how u can prove otherwise? )

Equanim

Beard3D Bandit wrote: »

What about modding Skyrim until your eyeballs bleed.)

Hmm, that's a good one.

I think there's a mod that already adds weapons from LOTR into the game, but that's pretty small compared to something like a full campaign with actors and whatnot. Bethesda wouldn't sue, though I bet they have a line in their terms of use disallowing copyrighted content as mods to protect themselves. (Not that they've ever enforced it.) The Tolkien's could still sue but the mod would have to be akin to a full game for them to bother.

Here's the best explanation I've seen on this:
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKBsTUjd910[/ame]

Mant1k0re

Give it enough time and another game like LOTRO will pop up, eventually. It is very long in the tooth and I'm usually all about cutting edge graphics but this game never gets old and make you want to explore and explore again 'til you drop.

By all accounts it's going to shut down in 2017, Warner Bros only has the license until then if I'm not mistaken. Maybe then we will see something else set in the same universe. It is bound to happen sooner or later anyway, there wil never be a better fantasy universe.