Wow, that facebook post and Chris robert's latest post certainly turn things around.
EDIT: Actually I do know of some of the people in that facebook post. Apparently they were completely unprofessional (being drunk and spouting things in public chat) and couldn't handle the working environment.
Honestly though I couldn't really care about this entire kerfuffle. It's a whole bunch of drama that is just unnecessary. The games industry needs some kind of "work safe" inspections for fair work practices or something lol.
I mean sure, normal gamers/forumdwellers can be all loud and argue that its all made up, but I have heard enough stuff from within the industry, stuff that isnt public, to be very cautious.
Someone posted this uncensored on an article criticizing the escapist article. I took the liberty of censoring it myself to not put anyone on the spot but it's definitely legit.
I'm not saying this is wrong, but I'm definitely going to call you on it. At every company, someone is typically getting shafted on pay, and someone is typically getting paid more than they should. I can tell you, the position they offered me earlier this year was .. reasonably over the odds in terms of pay, from what I would have expected. Don't believe everything you read/buy into generalizations.
I'm not saying this is wrong, but I'm definitely going to call you on it. At every company, someone is typically getting shafted on pay, and someone is typically getting paid more than they should. I can tell you, the position they offered me earlier this year was .. reasonably over the odds in terms of pay, from what I would have expected. Don't believe everything you read/buy into generalizations.
I'm just trying to figure out what's so special about this company where people are speaking out. It's just so uncommon isn't it? Usually if things are tough it's met with just joking not really hate.
I know working conditions can be wonky, and I think we kinda just accept that. What makes this company so special? Is it just a sign of the times?
It's a sign of a game that got 90 million dollars and everyone working on it is sick of nothing actually happening or wanting to have their name on an actual project, not some insane pipe-dream that'll be a pile of garbage if or when it ever comes out. The waste of money is probably astronomical if anyone were to look inside that behemoth.
Star citizen is this horrible nightmare that everyone in the industry and gamers in general would like to wake up from. People wanted space combat to come back and instead we get this mess. We're finally hitting the time frame in which everyone is losing patience, and if the game doesn't start showing signs of being actually released soon there's gonna be a revolt.
While Im not a big fan of Chris Roberts and his style, I actually want the game to succeed, that art is absolutely brilliant, and the recent mechanics look groundbreaking, flying from ship to ship in a space suit, 6 players walking around spacecraft and operating systems, amazing.
However, its very interesting to compare the production of this and Elite Dangerous.
Star Citizen... Mega hypetrain, big mouths but little substance or delivery. As of yet backers still have no actual game to play.
Elite Dangerous....working prototype right from the start, very low key and low budget marketing, but great delivery on a product, even from very early after kickstarter.......
I don't know about you guys but I was enjoying shooting stuff in the Dogfighting module yesterday. We still have quite a bit on the game that is actually playable and the FPS module is not too far away. In terms of the persistent universe yes that is still not got a release date yet but you cannot expect a project such as Star Citizen to be made at great speed.
While Im not a big fan of Chris Roberts and his style, I actually want the game to succeed, that art is absolutely brilliant, and the recent mechanics look groundbreaking, flying from ship to ship in a space suit, 6 players walking around spacecraft and operating systems, amazing.
this is the thing. on one hand, their pitch was AMAZING and it sounds like everything I ever wanted in a space game, like holy shit. ideas everywhere.
ideas.
the truth is, they got an assload of money years ago, like 10x what they asked for, and not only are they way past their projected launch date, we've seen such little progress that it feels like they're not really doing anything but pumping out new videos to market ships you can hardly use, at $200 a pop.
I just don't understand how production can possibly be so slow when they have the money to get whatever resources they need, UNLESS there are production issues or are stuck in some sort of iteration/redo everything hell.
I understand they have made 'progress' and put out small modules of things for people to play, but it all feels so insignificant when you consider what the scope of the game they were aiming for is. Unless they have like, a ridiculous amount of stuff done that they have decided not to show for whatever reason... but that seems doubtful to me, considering all the press surrounding them, I would expect them to jump at the chance to say "look at all the stuff we did!" to shut up the naysayers. but nope.
again, I really, really want this game to happen because it seems fuckin rad, but every YEAR that goes by.. well. I'll probably be playing and enjoying Elite Dangerous when Horizons comes out... and Star Citizen is still just a controversy with some backers defending it vehemently.
this is the thing. on one hand, their pitch was AMAZING and it sounds like everything I ever wanted in a space game, like holy shit. ideas everywhere.
ideas.
the truth is, they got an assload of money years ago, like 10x what they asked for, and not only are they way past their projected launch date, we've seen such little progress that it feels like they're not really doing anything but pumping out new videos to market ships you can hardly use, at $200 a pop.
I just don't understand how production can possibly be so slow when they have the money to get whatever resources they need, UNLESS there are production issues or are stuck in some sort of iteration/redo everything hell.
I understand they have made 'progress' and put out small modules of things for people to play, but it all feels so insignificant when you consider what the scope of the game they were aiming for is. Unless they have like, a ridiculous amount of stuff done that they have decided not to show for whatever reason... but that seems doubtful to me, considering all the press surrounding them, I would expect them to jump at the chance to say "look at all the stuff we did!" to shut up the naysayers. but nope.
again, I really, really want this game to happen because it seems fuckin rad, but every YEAR that goes by.. well. I'll probably be playing and enjoying Elite Dangerous when Horizons comes out... and Star Citizen is still just a controversy with some backers defending it vehemently.
You could argue that the initial release date targets were too low for a game of this scope. Then again it did not help that they kept adding more and more on top of the game in addition to being pressured by the community to release things such as the Hanger, Dogfighting and FPS module before the release of the game which I have not thought to be that good of an idea. I would personally prefer for them to take time with the game rather than rushing out a game that does not live up to the scope or turn out to be a broken game.
No, you hire a lawyer and do what the lawyer says. Trying to out-scream someone on the internet is a losing strategy.
They have a lawyer, they made that pretty clear. But courts don't work fast, and damage can be done in the time it takes to clear things up. Since someone is very publicly accusing them of doing something illegal while not even giving them the chance to respond to the accusation, they have to make a pretty public response on their own. If you heard nothing from them at all during these accusations you'd probably still be shitting on that strategy too.
You could argue that the initial release date targets were too low for a game of this scope. Then again it did not help that they kept adding more and more on top of the game in addition to being pressured by the community to release things such as the Hanger, Dogfighting and FPS module before the release of the game which I have not thought to be that good of an idea. I would personally prefer for them to take time with the game rather than rushing out a game that does not live up to the scope or turn out to be a broken game.
I agree. But in that case, when they see the scope expanding, change your kickstarter end date, and issue an update. They set an expectation for a lot of people that is now essentially been ignored by a great deal. I absolutely would rather have them take their time and deliver the best thing they can, no question.
They have a lawyer, they made that pretty clear. But courts don't work fast, and damage can be done in the time it takes to clear things up. Since someone is very publicly accusing them of doing something illegal while not even giving them the chance to respond to the accusation, they have to make a pretty public response on their own. If you heard nothing from them at all during these accusations you'd probably still be shitting on that strategy too.
No, not responding other than an official HR-robo reply is the right play. Settle it in court. Saying anything outside of court is basically giving the other side ammunition.
Regarding "whats so special about star citizen" line of thought... It's one of those projects that kind of defines crowd funding success. It represents a true departure from being disposable gunk at the bottom of the big publisher's shoe. It also redefined how community involvement and interaction can work with a game project.
In short its doing a lot of things differently to the point where its breaking old expectations and conventions. Naturally this will ruffle some feathers.
Been also hearing that some of their character artist are not happy because they are being told that their workflow has to change in order to fit with how they are changing the way they approach lower cost assets. From what I am told, some of the character artist dont want to change... that they are stuck in a kind of mode where being asked to work differently (with less reliance on zbrush and normal maps) just rubs them the wrong way. That could be a driving reason for some of the CIG hate regarding a particular group of artist that left CIG.
All that said though I agree they shouldnt be given a free pass when it comes to scrutiny but it also shouldnt be above the norm or outside of normal expectations. For crowd funding, the financial situation is always a valid area of interest...we just dont know whats true on that front.
In 6 days we will see if they have something to deliver and show that the criticism on accomplishment well placed or not. Some of the community insiders are hinting at a big reveal. If there is something substantial there, articles like that from the Escapist will look ill founded.
So lets hold off on the "progress" (or lack there of) criticism until we see what happens in 6 days. http://citizencon.com/
Replies
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14979-Chairmans-Response-To-The-Escapist
The whole thing is stupid af
You really shouldn't be giving them any ideas now.
EDIT: Actually I do know of some of the people in that facebook post. Apparently they were completely unprofessional (being drunk and spouting things in public chat) and couldn't handle the working environment.
Honestly though I couldn't really care about this entire kerfuffle. It's a whole bunch of drama that is just unnecessary. The games industry needs some kind of "work safe" inspections for fair work practices or something lol.
I'm not saying this is wrong, but I'm definitely going to call you on it. At every company, someone is typically getting shafted on pay, and someone is typically getting paid more than they should. I can tell you, the position they offered me earlier this year was .. reasonably over the odds in terms of pay, from what I would have expected. Don't believe everything you read/buy into generalizations.
I'm just trying to figure out what's so special about this company where people are speaking out. It's just so uncommon isn't it? Usually if things are tough it's met with just joking not really hate.
I know working conditions can be wonky, and I think we kinda just accept that. What makes this company so special? Is it just a sign of the times?
Star citizen is this horrible nightmare that everyone in the industry and gamers in general would like to wake up from. People wanted space combat to come back and instead we get this mess. We're finally hitting the time frame in which everyone is losing patience, and if the game doesn't start showing signs of being actually released soon there's gonna be a revolt.
However, its very interesting to compare the production of this and Elite Dangerous.
Star Citizen... Mega hypetrain, big mouths but little substance or delivery. As of yet backers still have no actual game to play.
Elite Dangerous....working prototype right from the start, very low key and low budget marketing, but great delivery on a product, even from very early after kickstarter.......
I know which style of production I prefer.
this is the thing. on one hand, their pitch was AMAZING and it sounds like everything I ever wanted in a space game, like holy shit. ideas everywhere.
ideas.
the truth is, they got an assload of money years ago, like 10x what they asked for, and not only are they way past their projected launch date, we've seen such little progress that it feels like they're not really doing anything but pumping out new videos to market ships you can hardly use, at $200 a pop.
I just don't understand how production can possibly be so slow when they have the money to get whatever resources they need, UNLESS there are production issues or are stuck in some sort of iteration/redo everything hell.
I understand they have made 'progress' and put out small modules of things for people to play, but it all feels so insignificant when you consider what the scope of the game they were aiming for is. Unless they have like, a ridiculous amount of stuff done that they have decided not to show for whatever reason... but that seems doubtful to me, considering all the press surrounding them, I would expect them to jump at the chance to say "look at all the stuff we did!" to shut up the naysayers. but nope.
again, I really, really want this game to happen because it seems fuckin rad, but every YEAR that goes by.. well. I'll probably be playing and enjoying Elite Dangerous when Horizons comes out... and Star Citizen is still just a controversy with some backers defending it vehemently.
You could argue that the initial release date targets were too low for a game of this scope. Then again it did not help that they kept adding more and more on top of the game in addition to being pressured by the community to release things such as the Hanger, Dogfighting and FPS module before the release of the game which I have not thought to be that good of an idea. I would personally prefer for them to take time with the game rather than rushing out a game that does not live up to the scope or turn out to be a broken game.
I agree. But in that case, when they see the scope expanding, change your kickstarter end date, and issue an update. They set an expectation for a lot of people that is now essentially been ignored by a great deal. I absolutely would rather have them take their time and deliver the best thing they can, no question.
No, not responding other than an official HR-robo reply is the right play. Settle it in court. Saying anything outside of court is basically giving the other side ammunition.
In short its doing a lot of things differently to the point where its breaking old expectations and conventions. Naturally this will ruffle some feathers.
Been also hearing that some of their character artist are not happy because they are being told that their workflow has to change in order to fit with how they are changing the way they approach lower cost assets. From what I am told, some of the character artist dont want to change... that they are stuck in a kind of mode where being asked to work differently (with less reliance on zbrush and normal maps) just rubs them the wrong way. That could be a driving reason for some of the CIG hate regarding a particular group of artist that left CIG.
All that said though I agree they shouldnt be given a free pass when it comes to scrutiny but it also shouldnt be above the norm or outside of normal expectations. For crowd funding, the financial situation is always a valid area of interest...we just dont know whats true on that front.
In 6 days we will see if they have something to deliver and show that the criticism on accomplishment well placed or not. Some of the community insiders are hinting at a big reveal. If there is something substantial there, articles like that from the Escapist will look ill founded.
So lets hold off on the "progress" (or lack there of) criticism until we see what happens in 6 days.
http://citizencon.com/