THIS JUST IN: MODO indie 901 has just been released!
We're proud to announce that the new update is here: MODO indie 901
MODO indie 901 is chocked full of all the awesome new features and goodies that the full version has to offer. The same indie restrictions hold though listed below... with one exception that has been requested early on by a large majority of the community. We believe release of this restriction shows that we are listening and doing our best to foster an even stronger indie community.
MODO indie 901 Restrictions:
-OBJ and FBX export limited to 100k polys
-Bake and render resolution limited to 4k
-Command eval options unavailable
-Command, scripts, and command history panel results unavailable except undo and history
-Python editor, third-party scripts, and third-party plugins unavailable
-Can import all formats, but can only save in .lxf format
-Export formats limited to OBJ and FBX
-Image save formats limited to .png, .jpg, .tiff and .exr
We're happy to announce that your MODO indie Project files (.lxf) can now be shared with other MODO indie users and is no longer locked to your user ID. This will allow for more collaboration with other users and a new way to share what you're creating within MODO indie.
Let's get into the pricing since this is a factor for everyone as well.
MODO indie & MODO/MARI indie Bundle Subscription Users:
-The MODO indie 901 update is included with your monthly subscription service. You will need to download and install the new application as it has a different appID and won't stream to you like other product updates do.
MODO indie 901 & MODO/MARI indie Bundle Subscription Perpetual License Users:
- We are offering a loyalty discount of 90% off MODO indie 901. This is equivalent to an upgrade, but do to the way steam works you will be buying MODO indie 901 at a discount. This makes the MODO indie 901 update approximately $29.99 USD for MODO and $37.99 for MODO/MARI indie Bundle users
PS-
MeshFusion:
Yes, MeshFusion is included with MODO indie 901. Awesomesauce right?
Kits, Plugins, and Training:
We received amazing feedback from the survey that over 212 people took part in and we thank you. We awarded a lucky indie user with a full copy of MODO 901 full who is very happy. I will be providing an update for you all on what we plan to do with Kits, Plugins and Training in the future. Very exciting time indeed!
Scripts:
I'm still working on some ideas in the background regarding scripts and while questions and feedback are welcome, nothing has changed.
The team and I here want to thank you all for your feedback and patience awaiting this release.
Link to the Store Page:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/401090?beta=0
BladeEvolence OUT!
Brandon R. Reddick
MODO/MARI Indie Advocate
The Foundry
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
~Master Yoda
MODO indie 901 is chocked full of all the awesome new features and goodies that the full version has to offer. The same indie restrictions hold though listed below... with one exception that has been requested early on by a large majority of the community. We believe release of this restriction shows that we are listening and doing our best to foster an even stronger indie community.
MODO indie 901 Restrictions:
-OBJ and FBX export limited to 100k polys
-Bake and render resolution limited to 4k
-Command eval options unavailable
-Command, scripts, and command history panel results unavailable except undo and history
-Python editor, third-party scripts, and third-party plugins unavailable
-Can import all formats, but can only save in .lxf format
-Export formats limited to OBJ and FBX
-Image save formats limited to .png, .jpg, .tiff and .exr
We're happy to announce that your MODO indie Project files (.lxf) can now be shared with other MODO indie users and is no longer locked to your user ID. This will allow for more collaboration with other users and a new way to share what you're creating within MODO indie.
Let's get into the pricing since this is a factor for everyone as well.
MODO indie & MODO/MARI indie Bundle Subscription Users:
-The MODO indie 901 update is included with your monthly subscription service. You will need to download and install the new application as it has a different appID and won't stream to you like other product updates do.
MODO indie 901 & MODO/MARI indie Bundle Subscription Perpetual License Users:
- We are offering a loyalty discount of 90% off MODO indie 901. This is equivalent to an upgrade, but do to the way steam works you will be buying MODO indie 901 at a discount. This makes the MODO indie 901 update approximately $29.99 USD for MODO and $37.99 for MODO/MARI indie Bundle users
PS-
MeshFusion:
Yes, MeshFusion is included with MODO indie 901. Awesomesauce right?
Kits, Plugins, and Training:
We received amazing feedback from the survey that over 212 people took part in and we thank you. We awarded a lucky indie user with a full copy of MODO 901 full who is very happy. I will be providing an update for you all on what we plan to do with Kits, Plugins and Training in the future. Very exciting time indeed!
Scripts:
I'm still working on some ideas in the background regarding scripts and while questions and feedback are welcome, nothing has changed.
The team and I here want to thank you all for your feedback and patience awaiting this release.
Link to the Store Page:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/401090?beta=0
BladeEvolence OUT!
Brandon R. Reddick
MODO/MARI Indie Advocate
The Foundry
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
~Master Yoda
Replies
Plus the price tag isn't exactly "cheap".
I hope you say that in jest...
The price tag IS cheap. For $10 a month you can get a $1800 piece of software with the least amount of restrictions compared to say Maya LT.
In fact the restrictions are very competitive, you could pay $10 a month or have a $299 perpetual license. Thats a great deal for professional grade software.
Just in case you are not familiar with whats in 901, check these out... these features are NOT missing from the Indie version (with the exception of scripting).
[ame]
[ame]
The 100k poly limit (thats 200k tris) is only for export. This means you can have a 10 million poly mesh in Modo Indie and be able to save/share its .lxf file. If you want to export as an obj or fbx, then yes the mesh being exported will have to be under 100k... but this is the current standard. Its fine for game art. The 4k baking limit is also fine, we dont usually bake larger than 4k anyway.
This is also just the first iteration of 901 indie, more development can follow and if one goes with perpetual, there will be an upgrade between versions.
That and resources. Right now windows is the market they have to succeed in first... not to mention its also the platform with Unity and Unreal Engine 4 and general game modding.
Can't see it listed anywhere....
They had a survey asking if people would be open to purchasing ACS as a kit/dlc for Indie... so the chances of it happening are going up, but as of right now no... no autorig...just the manual approach.
With the features that are removed, there's almost literally no reason to use it over Blender.
Access to the kits would go a very long way toward helping it, but I would really like to see Python scripting.
Sorry if it sounds cold or bitchy but I simply do not understand why the foundry would be hurting themselves by picking this economic model.
MODO's baker is fine. I haven't had a problem with it. It is a little bit odd learning how to do it inside of MODO the first time, but it does get the job done.
Personally, I still prefer baking with Substance Designer's baker. I just love how quick and easy it is. I think most people using MODO still prefer to bake in Xnormal though.
But I have fallen in love with unwrapping UV's inside of MODO.
In steam it says:
:poly121:
The Foundry is not privately owned. I believe they're always under the pressure to make target profits for themselves and their new owner HGCapital.
In the shader tree...
Add Layer > Processing > Occlusion
Set Type to Concavity/Convexity/Concavity & Convexity (this last one is effectively a curvature map)
Set Occlusion Rays to 256 or so.
Bake whatever output you've set it to (Driver A is usually an easy one).
Hell, you can macro it in 4 lines...
Is it because I originally had Modo Steam edition?
Okay, I didn't know that but still...
How is the suggested economic model a barrier to making target profits? It's not obvious to me at least. Methinks removing entry barrier is the best way to boost your profits, actually - at least with the user group they target with indie, which is probably hobbyists like me. I don't think many professionals are using indie for game art, because of the lack of script.
Same here. I bought the Steam Edition way back, and I'm not even getting the upgrade promotion.
Well you could rent today but it doesn't mean you'll fulfill your rental payment towards ownership right away. It could be months from now, maybe you will drop modo for another product in the future.
Versus The Foundry forcing, in a way, users to commit in a shorter time period to purchase the full version or keep milking renters who may or may not upgrade.
And they have other software products too. If they institute rent to own for Modo they'll have to make same deals to other product users, like companies who need licenses in volume.
Allegorithmic, so far they have less than a handful of products for a niche market. I think they're following Pixologic's strategy of offering super affordable licenses and licensing plans so they can dominate their market.
And that's why the foundry should be more flexible, they are no Autodesk. If they want to expand, they have to be more flexible IMO
Modo's baking is pretty decent. In my opinion, it has one of the better cage baking solutions out there (you use a morph map of the low-poly as a cage, meaning you can toggle it on and off and even change the topology of the model and cage simultaneously). It also lets you bake a lot of different types of render outputs, which is always nice.
The main issue with baking in Modo is viewport performance with high-poly models isn't as smooth as other solutions out there, so navigating the interface can be pretty sluggish with high-poly models loaded up.
As for whether it's synced or not, I haven't been able to get a straight answer from the documentation and nobody on the forums seems to know. There are a couple of different normal baking options, and 901 was supposed to use Mikk tangent space, but I can't seem to find any documentation on it. All the help docs say is this:
Lately I've been using the Knald Beta for my baking needs and it's been working very well for me. It bakes faster than Modo (which is already a fast baker), and waaaaaaay faster than xNormal.
EDIT: I just did another search with some different terms and found this: http://community.thefoundry.co.uk/discussion/post.aspx?f=83&t=107549&p=931406
So I guess you can get synced normals. The process is just slightly convoluted.
I think The Foundry is not Autodesk or Adobe big that they can do away with perpetual licenses and can survive on rentals.
They're still small enough that they can make their money more from selling perpetuals.
Modo's not even their best software I think if you compare it with their other products as far as revenue making.
The discounts not showing up is an issue and we're aware of it. Its an error on Valve's end that I'm working with them to fix.
The problem with Steam is that there are a lot of unknowns until you actually release, so a lot of new problems come up in the process of purchasing. Plus the way that Valve sets up the app packages they couldn't just update the existing MODO indie app for some reason and a whole new product page had to be setup and populated (That process was super fun for me lol)
If discounts are not showing up for you and you own either the perpetual license of the bundle or MODO indie, please email me at brandon.reddick@thefoundry.co.uk and I will work tirelessly to get it solved for you. I fight for the users!
As far as our licensing/purchasing structure vs allegorithmic's, that is far above the influence that I have on the indie products. I do think that its hard to do a revenue model since it would be very difficult to track a content creation software to be able to see its use in the assets or final product. You would almost have to have a watermark somewhere on the asset in order for that to work which would piss us all off to great lengths. For Unity and UE4 that's pretty easy to tell if its in use which is why it works for them.
A majority of indie users on Steam are very happy with the release of MODO indie 901 and what we're offering to them. Shane Griffith and I are really working hard to offer more to the community given what they need out of indie, while also doing our best to think about full MODO and the larger community in the process. It's a balancing act for sure.
The current downside is that you need to manually triangulate your meshes before baking & export to ensure a perfect sync.
If you're using full Modo, I've added Unity and Source engine tangent bases to my Vertex Normal Toolkit (to complement the built-in MikkTSpace for UE4).
I've also added a special right-click sub-menu on normal maps which will deal with the setting up of the required options for the engine and start a bake.
All it really does is set up the correct options on the normal map (colorspace, per-pixel cross product and inverted green) and apply the tangents for the normal map's UV map, then bake.
It'll also default to using the selected morph map as the cage (if you've got one selected), which makes the process pretty painless.
Just right click on your normal map and select Bake for Engine > UE4/Unity/Source
http://community.thefoundry.co.uk/discussion/topic.aspx?f=83&t=77919
here you go :poly121:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/b3w2chj6fg3lv57/convex_concav_setup.py?dl=0
it's a simple script, adjust accordingly.
Thank you so much for proving our point!
I don't honestly see nor have ever seen the point to Modo indie, my GA workflow is based around scripts.
Care to share some of your favorites? My Modo usage is based more around solid hotkeys for what I do rather than scripts, but mostly because I haven't found a lot of scripts that I personally would find useful with the way I work.
Not really a point. Scripts are great but are they needed? Its highly subjective. Even though I have both Indie and the full version of Modo... I can work with both primarily because scripts are not mandatory. Modo is very very very good out of box. This doesnt meant it wouldnt be nice to see some of the more popular scripts pop up in Indie... but they shouldnt be holding anyone back much less gimping their work if they are not present.
The bigger problem with scripts atm isnt so much that they dont want indie users to use them, but finding a solution to allow python scripts without allowing python scripting...if that makes any sense. Python scripting would allow users to essentially get around the few limitations that exist in Modo Indie, making it virtually indistinguishable from the flagship product. Modo doesnt have the luxury of having its own scripting language like Maya's MEL either... the closest Modo has is the macro system in which user created macros can be set up and shared.
From what I hear though, BladeEvo and Shane are looking into it, they want the indie users to be able to have their cake and eat it too. I totally get the frustration at waiting or the uncertainty, BUT right now you have a killer product that can be used now for very little money, to keep expecting more while holding off on using it is just hurting the user as well as Indie, because usage and revenue will generate more resources into getting the things the users want.
Man I get it you're an evangelist like Tidal, I'd like to be too, believe me.
Yeah you CAN work without any script, the question is can you go back to typing with one finger after you reach 120 words/minutes as a fully accomplished touch typist? I know of a few dudes that have been modeling for 5 years or more and never use any hotkey and certainly never run any script in Max or Maya. Great for them if they're happy working that way... For me using scripts and macros is like knowing your hotkeys perfectly, it's the very basis of a fast, satisfying workflow and I can't work without it.
But at the core, I guess am pissed because even though I am chained to Max I really want ADSK to FAIL epically next year when they follow the Adobe route with their all sub nonsense at 300 bucks/month, and I feel only the Foundry can bring Max and Maya's demise. But not if they only go half of the way and worse, mimic some of the stuff ADSK is doing with Maya LT. The Foundry could be our superhero but right now all they are is a half-baked Sunday vigilante. They can do better. They must. I hope they will.
I agree that them adding the full ability for scripts should be reserved for the full version of MODO no doubt about it but if they can make it so that just a few already made scripts without the ability to build your own or use any past the limited Foundry selected one.
Hell, if you're doing game art you NEED Farfarer's Vertex Normal Toolkit. It's essential.
will make a pack for you so you can get & dirty :poly121:
Keep trying though Foundry, maybe one day you will get some money out of me.
I'm not saying i enjoy it, i think with the addition of a handful of scripts Modo is super powerful, I'm saying i don't think we should hold it against them.
The point of MODO indie is that it has brought MODO to more users at an affordable price point that may have never even considered it before. Its focused in a different area trying to help more artists do what they need to do. Whether it be for fun, learning, creating game assets or starting commercial work efforts. Also MODO indie provides an avenue for people to gain access to it that don't fall into The Foundry's education structure.
Hearing negative comments and perspectives about indie comes with the territory in this role. If you take a step back though, and look at it from the perspective of another user who may not have a specific workflow... artists who pick up MODO indie are getting one hell of a deal, and a helpful community to go along with it.
I talk with our user base everyday regarding likes, dislikes, ways to improve and differentiate indie. I take pride in helping the community out, because I've been on the other side of fence. Yes, there are a lot of users that really want the ability to utilize scripts within indie, but there are also a lot of indie users along with full MODO users that do exactly what they want without scripts.
It comes down to what the individual artist needs. Just keep in mind that we have some plans here in the near future just like the file lock that was just removed, to once again expand indies offerings to meet the needs of the users, but also keeping the full MODO product line in mind. indie is cautiously evolving to fit not only the target audience and stay competitive with the competition.
By the way, you all can share scripts with each other all you want. But try to show some courtesy in the process. This indie 901 announcement is meant to get current users on the same release as the full users, give them new tools and features to use on their own projects, and of course sell more software (Everyone here is smart, we're a software developer). Plus we're giving a loyalty discount of 90% off for previous owners. We're trying to do right by this community. Sometimes I wish we could just celebrate each other as artists instead of discriminate and nitpick.
Alas, this is the internet of things and while there is nothing wrong with speaking our minds, its good to realize that there are other people out there with different perspectives who are very happy with the indie offering. The people who are happy with MODO indie right now are exploring and working away. Sometimes its hard to get them on chat or in the forums unless they really need something. I digress...
PS: The discount error that Valve and I were working on fixing is patched up now. Just in case, if for some odd reason you don't see a discount, please email me brandon.reddick@thefoundry.co.uk and I will help you as fast as I can to make sure you get what you need.
Hey WarrenM- I feel you on Farfarers Vertex Normal Toolkit, in fact he and I are working on some stuff in the bkg as we speak.
Blade OUT!
Please dont suggest I am the same as Tidal. I am not acting as an evangelist, no more than you are acting out the role of modohater.
I think theres this industry wide expectation that if you are working in a 3d application, you need scripts... in fact its become such a normal thing for users of other applications (which I count myself among), that it seems strange to suggest Modo doesnt need them... but it really doesnt. This is just an objective observation. They did a very good job at delivering a solid offering without scripts, that the current scripts do more to enhance the workflow rather than define it.
And again we have to keep in mind this is just Indie, the full version of Modo is also an option. If the scripts are so critical to working, then investing in the full version shouldnt be an issue... its still halfish of what Maya/Max will run ya.
You also say Macros... macros are in Indie. They are not locked out because they have nothing to do with the python scripting which is the sole reason scripting isnt in Indie atm. This means you can download Greg Brown's magic UV pelter macro just like a script and run it... or even attach it to a hotkey or pie menu. Again thats still in Indie.
I agree with you that Modo is probably the closest set up to actually compete head on with Autodesk... and I'm right with you on their subscription model choice as well as general behavior in punishing their user base for not upgrading. Thing is, its going to take new users to make that happen faster. Thankfully studios are showing an interest in Modo but the growth has to happen on both ends...
Think of it this way, you can test run Modo Indie for $10-14 a month and if you feel it would be complete with script support, then invest in the full version. In fact around Christmas chances are high you will see another 40-50% discount on the full version. This way you move away from Max and not feel frustrated by limitations.
I think thats their goal, is to find some way to get a few authorized scripts in but something like that is uncertain. We just know they are looking into it. With 901 we did see some of the scripts like perfect circle appear as a redefined radial align tool. They specifically said they took the concept of one of the more popular scripts and built it to be better within the application. I believe the implication is that they are interested in converting popular scripts into something that fits within Modo natively. Its both good news and bad, good in that they have shown an interest in doing so and bad in that it means waiting till the next release(s).
It seems likely that a lot of those happy without scripts are happy only because as new indie users they've never been able to use scripts and are unaware of what they're missing. But if they know enough about scripts to know they don't need them then modo indie is a great choice. Perhaps the term "indie" is a bit odd because indie developers most likely (I know for fact some do) utilise scripts for work. Those that can do without might be hobbyists just making items for games or whatever. It's also possible that in the future modo will improve to the point where scripts are no longer essential and we don't have to worry about it anymore.
While I get that it might be annoying to share something you care about (and not just because its your job; you seem to have a genuine interest in the software and its users) with others and hear only "but muh scripts!" in return, it's because we care. If we didn't we wouldn't come to threads like this to talk about the software we use. I mean, it wasn't that long ago modo's baker didn't support cages or various tangent basis's. That sucked; now it does and it's better. Not too long ago there wasn't even the option for modo indie; now there is. Prior to 701 there wasn't a native linux build for modo; now there is. We don't often talk about how software has gotten better because there's no need; instead we focus on "what sucks" to find solutions to make things better.
Even at the end of you post you allude to collaborating with Farfarer which is awesome and perhaps may not have come about if not for people complaining about scripts :P But seriously; his vertex normal toolkit should totally be integrated in modo; it's fantastic.
Unity editor has a linux fork; not sure on its status though. Plus with the growing number of linux games it should at least be considered if the support overhead isn't too much. I'd be in support of it even if I didn't use it personally; having the option increases our personal freedom.
Note that the Linux support doesn't have to be particularly great! I own a Zbrush license in spite of it not having a native Linux version because its CPU renderer allows it to run quite well in a Windows virtual machine with very little faffing about. (I did make sure that it worked well with a demo before buying it.) Plus, Zbrush is so different in its capabilities than most other programs that I felt the purchase was justifiable. To get Modo Indie working in a virtual machine would require me to buy another video card and do loads of faffing about, even though I'm confident it could be done.
Modo Indie is not in a very good place right now, in spite of the improvements that are happening. It needs to offer more than the alternatives at a similar price point in some way for it to really be worth considering. Maya LT comes with a flexible, powerful game engine now and has a baker that can do radiosity normal maps and if you're feeling technical custom directional light maps with Lua scripts and point cloud bakes for other custom game engines, plus you can script it with MEL and easily make custom viewport shaders with ShaderFX. Its lack of an offline renderer makes it a nonstarter for classic CRPG work but otherwise it's an option that you could probably justify pretty easily. Blender has Python scripting and comes with full access to the source code if Python doesn't cut it, letting you write plugins that use GLSL compute shaders or OpenCL if necessary and making it easier to merge them back upstream for maintenance. It has a powerful modifier stack, vertex normal editing with proxy meshes, hard edges, nondestructive beveling, etc. that even lets you mix between different sets of vertex normals, a remarkably consistent, portable, and DRM-free user experience between all platforms including Linux and BSD, a built-in compositor that can be used and abused for all sorts of image processing including nondestructive PBR texturing, a top-of-the-line UV editor, no export restrictions if you want to take your mesh over to Zbrush or Mudbox or xNormal or any of the many other programs that it could make sense to take really high poly meshes over to, and dynamic topology sculpting with semi-automatic remeshing and booleans. Plus, it's got full-featured rigging tools including stretchy IK which Modo lacks last time I checked, AND you can use Python in your rigs for UI or drivers or whatnot. What does Modo Indie offer that Blender or Maya LT don't without scripts? A renderer with a rounded edges shader and UDIM support, and a pleasant UI. I really appreciate the effort you've put into making Modo Indie work better for us, but for me it just doesn't put the meat in the basket, even compared to Blender.
I hope I am not hurting your feelings by posting this, Brandon. I am giving Modo Indie a bit of tough love here so that perhaps one day it can grow up to be big and strong.
Incidentally, the Unity Linux editor is generally working quite well in my experience. It's a good thing to have even for people who don't usually use Linux because it makes it quite a lot easier to do debugging for platform-specific issues than it was before the editor and Monodevelop were ported. There doesn't seem to be hardware antialiasing available and there are a few things here and there that don't quite work like they should, but I'm pretty impressed with how quickly it's coming together. Seems to be less crashy and generally have fewer issues than UE4 on Linux too.
Are you perhaps talking about using a hardware passthrough so you can have your guest os (windows) run with great performance? I became aware of this method recently and it gave me the linux bug again; Now I'm wasting time on distrowatch and wondering how feasible it would be really. Because being able to use linux and still whatever windows program I wanted would be rather badass. For anyone curious there's a video outlining the process here (there are some downsides but I'm still keen to give it a go next build).
Blade - this here ^
I also think that people not using scripts are people that don't know better for the most part, let's be candid. I try not to speak in absolute but I don't think there's many efficient/fast modelers out there that are not using scripts one way or another.
*in before someone mentions Paul Pepera*