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Anyone still using 3dsmax 2009?

phaedarus
phaedarus
polycounter lvl 10
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phaedarus polycounter lvl 10
I've stuck with 3dsmax 2009 ever since that debacle on polycount regarding the poor UI design and performance of succeeding 3dsmax versions.

Now, with integration tools for unity/unreal in the latest versions of 3dsmax and a few other additions in conjunction with the fact I have an updated system (gtx 970), I'm considering taking the plunge.

So, how does 3dsmax 2016 compare to 3dsmax 2009 in terms of user experience? is it worth the jump purely from a modeling perspective?

Thanks.
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  • Eric Chadwick
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    Eric Chadwick admin
    A lot of modeling tools have been added since then. I think they added Graphite in 2010? They changed the way Ctrl selection works, so it doesn't deselect anymore (Alt instead), I like this better. Quad chamfer was added. OpenSubdiv if you like that. Lots of other things.

    One of the issues I've had to deal with as an independent contractor is getting files from clients who use the latest version, which won't open in an older version. So at least for that it's helpful to have the latest. I actually have several versions installed, for different clients. One client only uses Max 2012.

    But overall if you're fast and comfortable in 2009, I'd say keep it around. Install the latest and spend some time with it. You can always jump back into 2009 if needed.
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  • phaedarus
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    phaedarus polycounter lvl 10
    Thanks.

    Can you tell me how the FPS compares in the viewpoint with say a typical zbrush import with max 2016 vs max 2009? I remember that being one of the big deals between 2009 and 2010.
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  • Joao Sapiro
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    Joao Sapiro sublime tool
    Ill just leave this here :http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104082
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  • spacefrog
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    spacefrog polycounter lvl 15
    Joao Sapiro wrote: »
    Ill just leave this here :http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104082

    Those posts are pretty obsolete and almost were back then right from the start...

    I brought the earthquake zbrush model into MAx 2009 and Max 2016 on the same machine ( GTX780/6 GB, i7-4930K 6 -core/32GB Ram ) . This lead to an 945MB file, about 6.5 mio polys, split into 8 seperate objects. Pure viewport performance in Max 2016 is far better ( viewport navigation, orbiting, file loading, hiding/unhiding, selecting etc ) then with Max 2009.

    Some time comparisons using that scene and following scenario:
    edit mesh modifier on the body ( 2.48 mio tris ), softselection enabled, 7k tris selected, shaded view with wireframe overlay active. Polygon subobject mode active.

    Viewport navigation:
    Max 2009: 4.5 fps, plus noticable hickup/delay everytime you change from panning to orbiting etc...
    Max 2016: 70 fps, almost no noticable hickup delay when changing interaction

    Stepping out and back into subobject mode in this scenario:
    Max 2009: 7 secs
    Max 2016: 2 secs

    Scene loading ( cold load, until responsive viewport gained ):
    Max 2009: 19 secs
    Max 2016: 7 secs

    scene reload (second load after picking File->Reset):
    Max 2009: 9 secs
    Max 2016: 5 secs

    I hope those figures open some nostalgic tinted eyes...
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  • oglu
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    oglu polycount lvl 666
    short note...
    we use max 2016 to bring CAD data to maya...
    cause we are not able to work with maya 2016 in such high polycounts...
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  • Joao Sapiro
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    Joao Sapiro sublime tool
    Could you give me the link to the file ?i find those values hard to believe , altho editing the model yeah i can pretty much see that happening when you try to edit it ,but again , read the thread , its not just about perfomance , but about ui , and not having extra uneeded nonsense in the program. Also editing zbrush sculpts in max is something in all my career years that i didnt need to do...Never had a scenario where perfomance would hinder me from working in max2009 too...

    Also about nostalgic tinted eye ( eheh ) i have been using an heavily costumized version of 2009 since forever. Its fast , responsive and easily customizable , i also used the latest versions ( except 2016 tho ) and its a mess to customize , the ui is bloated and perfomance wise has been below max2009 in every aspect...

    But even if they fixed 2016 perfomance polt handling wise its a great step , peehaps next realese they can have their ui fixed or allow us to fixmit. Ill give the program a try :)

    Edit : i hope the max2009 version where you tested that had all the service packs and hotfixes
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  • tynew
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    tynew polycounter lvl 9
    I'm still using Max 2012. All further versions have no improvements for game art related stuff afaik. Far more scripts and plugins work for 2012 and under than the newer versions. I do use some of the graphite tools but only as hotkeys instead of having the entire ribbon destroying my screenspace.

    In terms of UI customizing 2009 is the best. I especially like how in expert mode there is no title bar and the menu bar is there instead. Freeing up even more space! Instead in later versions of max the big crappy file button is there and makes no real use compared to a regular file button. Pulling out the command panel into two panes is completely unnecessary with the right hotkeys.

    You'd obviously want to have newer versions of Max though for professional/freelance work. A lot of studios would want the source files. For personal work use whatever you want :)

    People keep comparing the performance of max 2009 with newer versions of max. From my own experimentation Nitrous viewport performance is greatly improved for any GPU cards 2011 and up, which is why I'm on 2012. Here's my UI:

    wZmIxXL.png
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  • spacefrog
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    spacefrog polycounter lvl 15
    tynew wrote: »
    From my own experimentation Nitrous viewport performance is greatly improved for any GPU cards 2011 and up, which is why I'm on 2012. Here's my UI:

    Max 2012's viewport performance ( and Nitrous Bugs ! ) is a huge deal worse than all the versions from 2014 upwards, and especially Max 2016

    Regarding sharing the z-Brush imported scene:
    i don't want to share a nearly 1Gb scene, even zipped it's a couple 100 Mb's
    Max 2009 has all SP's installed of course, but performance is not a problem of SP: It's the D3D legacy viewport tech that's absolutely dying performance wise when dealing with high poly counts. All the D3D mesh caching/updating introduces the lags i mention above. You do not seem to need hi poly counts than ... I guess you mainly edit low poly game models than ? Of course you will not hit a limit performance wise then.

    And dont' get me started on some other unfixed bugs still in Max 2009:
    Skin mirror paste crash for example ? I even provided a fixed skin recompile just because AD did'nt do it
    http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=6&t=1056953

    But i see, all reasoning seem futile, so a final say: you'll miss A LOT you are not even aware of by eternally sticking to the old version ....
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