ESports, a global phenomenon.
quad damage
ESports - Links, News, Events please tell me everything there is to know about this sport and its athletes?
Esports Will Become A Medal Event At The 2022 Asian Games
Vice - The Celebrity Millionaires of Competitive Gaming (Full Length)
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The Teams feel free to add hyperlinks to this thread and I will update this list.
[A]lliance
Cloud 9
Counter Logic Gaming
Evil Geniuses
Fnatic
Invictus Gaming
Natus Vincere
Ninjas in Pyjamas
OpTic Gaming
Samsung Khan
San Francisco Optx
Serious Gaming
SK Gaming
SlayerS
StarTale
StK/Team 3D/Final Boss
Team
Team Forsen Boys
Team Liquid
Team MadCatz
Team Solo Mid
VapourX
Also why is South Korea the main focus for the agents, coaches, players? what is it about that country that put them above other countries?
https://www.dotabuff.com/esports
Vice - eSports - Part 1
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/video/esports-part-one
Game Theory: Why ESPN is WRONG about eSports
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Counter Logic Gaming (CLG)
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Esports Will Become A Medal Event At The 2022 Asian Games
Vice - The Celebrity Millionaires of Competitive Gaming (Full Length)
[ame]
The Teams feel free to add hyperlinks to this thread and I will update this list.
[A]lliance
Cloud 9
Counter Logic Gaming
Evil Geniuses
Fnatic
Invictus Gaming
Natus Vincere
Ninjas in Pyjamas
OpTic Gaming
Samsung Khan
San Francisco Optx
Serious Gaming
SK Gaming
SlayerS
StarTale
StK/Team 3D/Final Boss
Team
Team Forsen Boys
Team Liquid
Team MadCatz
Team Solo Mid
VapourX
Also why is South Korea the main focus for the agents, coaches, players? what is it about that country that put them above other countries?
https://www.dotabuff.com/esports
Vice - eSports - Part 1
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/video/esports-part-one
Game Theory: Why ESPN is WRONG about eSports
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Counter Logic Gaming (CLG)
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Replies
But what does the E stand for?
Electronic
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Not sure I agree, the games are popular because they're really good,well crafted and usually have a really high skill ceiling. You see Dota 2, LOL, Star Craft 2 and CS:GO at the top, all of them meant for high-level competitive play.
No sporting league actually makes their own sport, electronic or not.
I'm afraid I disagree with you here. Firstly in terms of games that are large in Esports the developers are behind the scene and make changes based on feedback of professional player and sometimes add in features requested the by Esports community and its players. Examples of this is games such as Dota,League of Legends, Smite, CS:GO, Starcraft 2 and Heartstone. Games that are not made for this or do not have a developer behind them almost always fail. Hence why does it make any degree of sense for an organisation with the fairly small size of the leagues to make a game for themselves when there is no guarantee of the public liking it or a professional scene to develop.
In terms of the pro players I could not disagree stronger from the Esports I follow (most of which is CS:GO) Esports is currently very very very competitive and it has never been bigger than now!
I don't really know how can you think that way. Considering, that most of the games that are on eSport top list, are all based on a skill level. DotA2, League of Legends, Counter Strike, Starcraft, each one of these games requires individual skill and teamplay(exclude Starcraft). If what you said is true, we would have "popular games tournaments" and people playing Battlefield, CoD and Angry Birds.
Another thing, what wannabe pro players are you talking about ? Simply looking at top teams in each of the games I mentioned before, you will see people that spend around 10 years mastering the craft, to be on top and they did not care about the money.
Example ? littleclaude posted a pic from recent DotA The International Tournament. This time the prizepool was ~18mln$, yes, that is the money that you can fight for, but when these guys were on top, few years ago, the prize pool was 5,000$ and no sponsors to pay you for the accommodation, transfer, anything. They stuck to it, and it finally payed off.
Same goes for the Counter Strike - Virtus Pro Team and many others.
I'd love to see those truly competitive players try their best at games like DotA or LoL. That is a proper challenge.
Yeah, I totally disagree with you. Members of EG, the winning Dota 2 team at the international this year have been playing pro / semi pro for a decade and had no idea that the game they were playing from their parents basement would eventually win them $6m ....
You don't just become a pro Esports player because you fancy it, it takes years and there was no money it in 5 years ago.
I would have to disagree. CSGO is a prime example. A ton of the players that play the game competitively currently have been around for years playing the game way before there was any money in it. It's a very exciting time for Esports in general and I imagine its only going to continue to get better
@littleclaude http://www.hltv.org/ <- Good resource for CSGO esport news.
I personally love Esports and the community behind them!
More reads on that.
http://geography.about.com/od/culturalgeography/a/South-Korea-Computer-Gaming-Culture.htm
That sort of environment has forged fiercely competitive players, but I think as E-sports become more prevalent in the west we'll see higher diversity.
I believe the evolution of online streaming through Twitch (mainly) and other streaming services has helped Esports explode in the past 5 years. Youtube has probably contributed as well, with commentators like HuskyStarcraft hyping up games just solo casting a replay a pro player sent him. I think some of the Youtube followers perhaps got interested more in watching games and thus getting into Esports and Twitch.
Some tournaments you can look up:
ESL, Dreamhack, MLG (Various games)
Evo, Capcom Pro Tour, ComboBreaker (Fighting games)
The International, Beyond the Summit - The Summit (Dota 2)
GOM.tv (Korean SC2)
Blizzcon usually has some tournaments and decent prize pools
Some websites for Esports News:
TeamLiquid
GosuGamers
JoinDota
Some Professional Gaming Organizations. This list is mostly NA/EU teams across multiple games. I'm not that familiar with Asian teams but there are plenty out there:
Evil Geniuses
Na'vi
Cloud 9
Team Secret
Team Liquid
Tempo Storm
Team Archon
Dignitas
Vici Gaming
Virtuous Pro
Alliance
Fnatic
Curse
Empire
Team Solo Mid
List of some Casting Studios/Commentators (my knowledge is mostly Dota2, SC2, Hearthstone) :
JoinDota
2GD Studio
Beyond the Summit (BTS)
Artosis/Tasteless
Total Biscuit (I think mostly Youtube)
Day9
DJWheat
I'm sorry how much CS have you played? How much do you watch?
Wow that video is amazingly informative, Thanks for the share. He seemed quite anti PC and pro "Smite" as it was console based but I think the trouble is with consoles your not going to get loads of people round your house with Xbone's and TVs? Personally I like laptops for MOBA as its easy to have get togethers (see photo of my monthly events)
I wonder if Tablets might be the way forward in the future? For example games like [ame="www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7SEIFBeg1k"]Dawn of Titans [/ame]
but in a Dota or LOL style could prove to be quite popular?
Anyhoo, I'm just spitting, thanks everyone else for you insight!
Looks good, Ill have to watch this later tonight.
I wonder if you could have a "World Cup" where best players from different teams get together to play for their county?
They do that every so often for CSGO.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Sports_World_Cup#
Before there was also a,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Cyber_Games
Tidal Blast, my friend, you actually have no clue where we are at. Question was relevant, because you truly have no idea how advanced it is to play CS/DotA/LoL/SC/Hearthstone on a high level, but still, you compare it to Q3.
A big part of being an eSport game is being fun to watch and easy to commentate, that's why Hearthstone is very popular to watch and play, even though there isn't as much depth as other eSports or Magic.
If anything, one could very well argue that being able to move a reticle at pixel-perfect accuracy in a shooter takes less "skill" than being able to read the mind of another player. From there any argument about "skill gap" becomes pretty much meaningless.
At the end of the day, I think the main reason why eSports are still seen as weird by the mainstream is simply because an audience with no experience in a given game has no way to even remotely relate to what is happening on screen (with the exception of a game like Hearthstone which completely removes the execution barrier). Therefore my suggestion to LC would simply be to pick up any game you are interested in and dive into it further. This is probably a better way to get a feel for competitive eSports than merely researching the subject from the outside
I don't even...
I used to play CS:GO and it was pretty fun and I've watched some competitive stuff, but it's not really that fun to watch for me. Most of that game is prediction and timing. Which you could argue is what most competitive sports are...
I agree with pior that the biggest barrier is probably the not knowing a game well enough to enjoy watching it. I think a good way to help that though is having announcers that can help explain things to casual viewers.
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This. Tons of examples but I think the most recent is how badly NS2 floundered. The skill ceiling in that game is insane, yet no audience.
I wouldn't go as far to say games have gotten easier in term of skill either. CS:GO has an insane meta game that I barely grazed the surface of(Ex ESEA-Main/CEVO-P player). It really just comes down to how entertaining it is to watch as a spectator while still having a pretty large meta-game for competitors.
I think Counter-strike and LoL have found that middle-ground, which explains the crazy high view counts on Twitch.
So, something like this?
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What an amazing looking game!
Yeah, that's the way forward for the causal gamer, maybe windows 10 for the bigger screen/surface pro/laptop with the flip screen?
Can a visitor watch so they can place it on the TV/projector for the rest of the party to watch?
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Not sure what you are talking about here at all.
The popular games are not suited for high level play ?
Starcraft is a difficult game, im sure you agree, but Mobas, have you ever played
one ? League is a game that takes months to play at a basic level, and Dota offers even more, a ridiculous amount of depth, those games can be played for many years and no two games are ever the same. They are extremely core games with very high skill ceiling especially dota. Even Counterstrike is a very challenging game. These are easily some of the most challenging games out.
Actually their insane amount of complexity is one of the biggest reasons eSports is held back, because its just impossible for someone that dosnt play to find
out what is going on.
Im not sure about the LoL players but rest assured that there are no Dota players in the International Tournaments that are not at the top of their craft and dedication. They train 8-10 hours a day, same for Starcraft and CS.
Not sure what you were watching, but first off eSports just really started in the last decade and there are no wannabes in the real tournaments. Many people want to be professional and only the best get there. This sounds all very biased what you say.
Edit: Im too late for the flame train, sadface
I would be very interested which features / elements you think make Quake a more skill intensive game than CS(non sarcastic)
Also try play some Dota and youll see that games became a lot more complex than Quake pEx.
All you can do is move one hero around and click 4 abilities, starting with only 1 at the beginning of the match. It might take you months to learn what exactly each hero/ability does, but you don't need to know that as a new player.
Also, the top down camera is a huge reason the genre is so popular among spectators. You can much better understand what's happening in a match, while in other games you often follow around only one player.
Another reason mobas are so popular is that they can be played so casually. By that I mean that you can play them for several hours, while eating snacks or chatting with friends while your hero is walking from a to b. In games like Starcraft or Quake, you are constantly doing something, and will most likely need take a break after 2-3 matches.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoUHkRwnRH-KTCH3tJ9WvsWWPEgUu-y6d
Oh and for casual sport Clash of clans had a tournament if that counts
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I have no idea whats happening on the screen and like others have said thats probably why esports is still where its currently at in terms of popularity. But now that school kids are getting more connected maybe they will know how to play games like Lol and have no clue whats happening on a real field hah.
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http://www.vainglorygame.com/
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Live Twitch - http://www.twitch.tv/vainglory/v/7196686
I believe with a game like dota - that is by far one of the most difficult games to get into - You already have a strong foundation of both viewers and players from good ol' Dota Allstars. I see it as a mix between the strong foundation, and Valve's impressive business model going into the eSports world.
Then out of the blue came LoL and became the great and famous eSport it is today. I believe it is solely due to the casual players that the game itself grows this much as a spectator sport. The simple reason being the game is MUCH more forgiving to new players than Dota, and at the time of Moba rise, it was one of a kind. This both means an easy pick for new players, but also that these new players understand the game and its rules, which makes it that much more appealing to watch.
I'm not saying the game is easier. I believe it is not as complex as Dota, but given a simple tool means thinking twice as hard how to exploit it better than your opponent. Which makes the skill ceiling high enough that pro players can continuously develop their play - which South Korea takes to heart!
I find CS:GO to be the most interesting eSports example though. Simply because CS has been a competitive eSport for so many years. If you followed the game, you'd know it was dying as CS:GO was first launched. What they did with CS:GO however, proved to be what drives all of eSports. They 'neglected' the pros, and appealed to the casuals. Not in the sense of gameplay! Never listen to casuals when it comes to gameplay. You simply take a look at the newer generation and adapt. Skins is what they wanted, and suddenly you have a whole new playerbase. And if people are willing to watch, the pros are willing to deliver.
If you have never played a moba (LoL, Dota), it will take you easily 6 months to play at a basic level to be of acceptable ranking in matchmaking. (Top 50% of players at best) There are many things to learn that require a lot of experience to get a grasp of, such as map awareness. In 6 months you can very much learn a lot of a fighting game per heart, especially those with only few skills such as Street Fighter or Tekken. Soul Calibur with easily double the skill amount and stances probably takes double the time, but I imagine to know most that I need to know by heart in 6 months. There are no crazy concepts or dynamics, its man vs man, read your opponent and know your and his skills, its mostly mechanical execution. On the other hand, mobas allow for more mistakes as there are far more things that can be done right. To be fair you have to differenciate here, LoL does not have as much freedom and the 5% details matter, while in Dota youll probably play a role at 50% as the skill ceiling is insane.
I think you are underestimating these games a little
I guess you think sports like football and basketball look dumbed down compared to boxing or something like that as well? The most interesting part about mobas is the strategy, tactics and teamplay - just like other team sports. also, mobas are more comparable to basketball than something like chess.
And what makes FPS the purest form of mechanical executions and mindgames, don't RTS's count.
As for influencing how opponents, have you ever played a moba? That occurs so many times? And it doesnt only apply to mobas, it happens whenever it requires you to vs someone.
Sure, as I said, at a basic level (I wrote 50% of the playerbase). I can play decently to compete properly online in much shorter time in fighting games. In League they let you level up over like 2-3 months before you are even able to play ranked matchmaking, and when youre finally level 30, you are still far off from playing against an average player and should not even think about playing ranked, and dota is a lot more complicated than league even
Give me two weeks of same intensive play and ill have good winning chances in online fighting matches vs the average player. This does not say anything about high level play, but I think it is way harder getting into moba games, the concepts are just a lot more abstract for new players and
the learning curve is very steep. Well it sure depends, there are simpler and complex moba and fighting games, but comparing Dota, taking me months after 2000 hours of League, and Soul Calibur taking me weeks (while having thrice the amount of skills Street Fighter has + 3D movement) to play acceptable is a big difference. Its probably way easier to lose your skill in Fighting games, as they want a lot of muscle memory and invisible combinations that are easy to forget if not trained, but they are much simpler to grasp imo. The goal is clear, every second has a clear purpose, the opponent is always visible and you only have to watch out for him and youre always on exactly the same power level and he always has the same many moves etc.
The soul calibur series has never been popular in the fighting game community as a tournament ready game due to a lot of imbalance and relative lack of depth compared to other fighting games. It's telling that you think Soul calibur is more complex than Street Fighter when that has never been the consensus in the tournament scene.
I think that perhaps you never actually delved too deeply into Street Fighter to form an accurate opinion on this. Things like 1 frame links and plinking are incredibly difficult to perform and do not exist in soul calibur, but are essential to even play Street Fighter at an average level of competency.
at all over the years and balance had many iterations, making it great for this purpose.
I still highly doubt that some quirks make Street Fighter / Tekken a more deep Game than Soul Calibur,
a way more modern game that has various combat stances, triple to eight times the amount of moves, 3d movement, dodge and other things, and there has to be metric tons of things I do not know to trump this.
With average level I mean average player, not average pro player.
Things like 1 frame links are so important because there are comperatively little other things to differenciate yourself, the less room for unique play you have, the more the tiny details matter to set yourself apart. If you only have 8 moves, every tiny thing matters, thats for sure. You also see this in League a lot, which I personally find boring,
but thats subjective id say.
Interesting article - Professional Gaming & How You Can Build A Career In It
Interesting a professional gamer is now classed a "pro athlete" and gets you a US Visa - http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-online-gamers-20130808-story.html
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/zygq2hv
http://cloud9.gg/teams/
The different LoL teams that has qualified for the world championship practically train every minute they're awake, with only very few breaks. Modern eSport teams don't only sit in front of the computer and play. They attend strategy meetings where they break down their opponents games, find weaknesses, physical training, team building. Then after that comes scrimming(playing closed games against other teams) and hours upon hours of solo queue training(playing ranked matches).
Many of the western teams have moved to South Korea for the next couple months to train(as South Koreans are regarded as the best LoL players) until the world championship kicks off in Europe
... ALL OF THEM!?
https://www.idlethumbs.net/esportstoday
what a weird thing to say. The only reason traditional martial arts are mostly bullshit is because they're almost never trained with full resistance, so the bullshido doesn't get weeded out. That doesn't mean that "MMA" (whatever that is anyway) is easy to learn or "does more with less." Just becoming proficient at fundamental wrestling takes ages, and then you have to learn striking and jiu jitsu on top of that. Come on...
Anyway, completely beside the point of this thread...