From what I've seen and read on the forums, it's better/faster for pure modeling. Updates are actually substantial, the software isn't as old/bloated/bogged down as Maya or Max, and feels modern. Biggest cons are that there isn't much for plug-ins, extensions, or tutorials, and it's not widely used in the games industry. It's priced much more reasonably, and has a few different pricing options.
Disclaimer, I've barely used it and just started trying to pick it up, and I used mostly Softimage before that.
A major factor in Modo adoption has to with the fact you dont get punished for not upgrading between versions and it is cheaper than going with Maya or Max. In short the licensing is very pro consumer. Many of love the fact we can skip upgrading, and then upgrade to the latest version at no added cost, its the same price for everyone regardless of version.
Beyond the sheer pro consumer mentality, Modo is by far the best modeling application I have seen so far. Part of the reason for this is that its very smart in its design, everything is tightly integrated as well. You can create and combine various tools from other tools, macros and custom menu's/pie menus are easy to create.
Modeling does not destroy the UVs but instead the UVs adapt to the users actions. Like Maya, you use the right tool for the right job, but many of them are unlike anything we have really seen before. They just work and there are many layers of functionality tied to each tool. The Dynamic workplane gives the user a secondary grid they can apply to any surface or direction with a click of the button. It is insanely powerful. Next up is the action center for advanced global, local transform options...and then the falloffs act as modifiers which can create fields that effect everything from geometry to particles.
Selection features are also probably the best in the industry. Whether its selecting edge loops, patterns or just painting a selection...its almost automated due to the ease in which its been implemented.
The Item Tree and Shader Tree is a unique take on the outliner/material organization, it uses an advanced layer system which is far superior to any outliner I have seen so far. Mesh layers can include as many meshes as you want, they can easily switch between layers or even nested layers. Copy, cut, paste, the usual hotkeys work mesh items too... think photoshop but made for a DCC package.
The workflow is rock solid, modeling I already went over, but after that you have a tab dedicated to retopology (its tools can work in any mode) that specializes in intuitive retopology (think topogun/3d coat). The UV editor is a kind of black magic, same intuitive consistent controls but the unwraps are nearly perfect with very little editing required. Again your UVs are preserved if you begin modeling or editing the topology. You could even decimate the mesh and the UVs will be preserved as close as possible. Great for making LODs with a click of the button.
Baking is powerful but it can be a bit convoluted. The short of it is that you can say, create an image layer set as a normal map then right click on the layer and tell modo to bake the normal map information onto it. Thats it. Simple, but the challenging part is just getting familiar with the types of bakes it can do and what the settings are to get the best results. There are however some kits that streamline the process (think xnormal) so its not so bad. Did I mention its fast?
The sculpting and painting tools are also consistent with the rest of the application. They work very well given that they are part of a larger 3d package, but will pale in comparison to Zbrush/3D Coat. Still you can get some great results and the tools work regardless of what mode you are in. The sculpting HUD is extremely easy to work with. With 901 there are now sculpting layers as well.
Its also growing up pretty fast, with each year offering a handful of significant improvements. The new advanced viewport is built on top of whats being done in Mari, and both viewports will be developed together as one bigger area of development (parity).
Game studios and publishers have shown an interest in Modo, and you can find a handful of artist using it as their primary driver at the studio. Everyone from Blizzard to Valve, Id and Gearbox...ect Its a great game asset creation tool. Is it anywhere as popular as Maya or Max? No but its working on it. There is still a lot of ground to cover in terms of wide spread studio adoption.
There are a lot of reasons to use Modo but the only way to really show off how great it is to use it. Try the demo or grab indie for cheap ($10 a month or $299 perpetual). I recommend switching it to the maya control scheme and turning off track ball rotation, this will make it conventional and familiar. Alternate keymaps (navigation) are included with Modo and they are officially supported.
Most people come for the flashy features like Mesh Fusion, and stay for the little things like selections and action centers - things that already exist in other programms, but were integrated very well in Modo.
Modo simply feels well thought out. You start to notice that max/maya are really old programs that kept building up on their old fundament. Modo in contrast was kind of build from scratch and that is also why each new version added so much cool stuff in comparison to the already "complete" autodesk programs.
However, that also means that Modo is less "complete". it doesn't really have the same kind of depth in animation, dynamics, fluids simulations and all these advanced features. That's why you probably won't see it as the primary 3d package in Hollywood anytime soon. But when it comes to the basic features, like modeling and unwrapping, Modo does an amazing job.
And I'd like to add that you have a choice to NOT update your Modo as well. Current version is 901, but if you own 801, 701, 601, 501 etc etc, you are free to use those. Updating is your choice.
I've been super interested in trying out Modo, and always find myself clicking on threads like this one to hear what other users have to say in it's favor. I've hesitated learning it because at my job Max/Maya are the standard and also what is available to use. I think I need to just make time to give it a trial go, and then save up for a sale price on buying it for myself if I enjoy as much as people suggest. Does the Foundry do that 40% off sale every year? I've seen it before but I wasn't sure if they annually offer that. That would be my time to buy if so.
Let's say I have 3 hours to be impressed, what should I focus on? I tried the 801 trial with retopologizing an organic mesh and I didn't like it at all. I will probably stick to 3DCoat & max for that.
I got a 30 day extension on my trial to give it another shot.
You might want to watch a video of someone working in Modo and then trying out some of their techniques. Snefer has a bunch of time lapse on YouTube and 2 tutorials on Gumroad.
Peter Stammbach (https://www.youtube.com/user/stammpe2) has a ton of modeling videos for MODO plus he sounds like a friendly grandfather so it's awesome.
Most applications don't have one, while it is nice its not the only way to work. If it was the best approach, I think everyone else would be trying to add them.
I personally have never felt limited by a lack of a max like modifier stack, but then again if you come from Maya the Modo approach will feel far more natural.
There a max users who finally got used to not using or thinking along the lines of a modifier stack and now feel liberated due to it. Pros and cons.
On that note its worth pointing out these developments....
Only thing I hate about Modo is it's isolate selected capabilities. In maya you can isolate a few selected faces if you want, but in Modo it isolates the whole mesh.
Other than that pretty much every tool in Modo feels smarter than what I've used in Maya. Loop slice is the best thing ever. Seriously.
Maybe, but i come from Maya and i know the benefits of Max stack in production, especially for archviz. Sure modo looks like to be the best modeler out there. I've attempted to learn a bit but it's hard when it's not the tool you use every day.
I'm dowloading Snefer gumroad tutorial, pretty sure i'll be like : ohhh myy, you can do that in modo !
Hayden ... yeah, isolate works at the mesh item level. If you select polygons you can then use the hide/hide unselected/unhide functionality to isolate them.
Only thing I hate about Modo is it's isolate selected capabilities. In maya you can isolate a few selected faces if you want, but in Modo it isolates the whole mesh.
???
If you want to hide faces in Modo, you just need to click on them and press H. If you want to hide everything except the selected faces, you press Shift+H.
You can do the same thing by selecting an edge or vertex and it'll hide whatever polygons that edge or vertex is connected to.
To me, MODO is something that's actually enjoyable to use. It starts fast, the tools work across everything (you can add edge loops to your mesh from the UV layout, the sculpting tools work on regular meshes as well as sculpts and UVs, etc.) and the easily set up action centres/axes and falloffs make things really flexible when modeling.
Something about it's envisioned workflow matches very closely with the way I think about modeling. It's really lots of small things working together rather than a standout feature or two.
Personally, I don't like the modeling history/stack of Max/Maya as I started learning in Lightwave... it's never seemed a big loss to me. I'm very used to the more raw, seat-of-your-pants approach to modeling.
It's not perfect by any means, but then neither is any if the competition.
I came for the selectioncapabilities and sub-tools, stayed for the customisation. Went from lightwave -> Maya -> Modo. Just keep finding new improvements to my workflows constantly. Too bad i cant script worth shit, otherwise i would make more scripts, haha.
I don't know if you have ever filled in the Autodesk crash forms but I have filled out a lot of them over the last 11 years I have been working in games using both max and maya. I have never once gotten a response from Autodesk. When I upgraded to Modo 801 I was getting a lot of crashes on the Mac version (which I could use at no extra cost at work from my pc license) when I had snapping enabled. I filled out those stupid crash email things and the next day I got a response from Luxology apologizing for the crashes and offering a beta hotfix to the problem to fix it. It was fixed and I was happy. That goes a long way for me.
What I initially chose to learn Modo for was the modeling toolset as well as the render and lighting stuff. It is really easy to set up complex lighting and shaders in Modo with just drag and drop and the stuff you drag and drop actually looks like what you want it to. Copy and past, show and hide are all simple things that are hard to live without now.
As a Blender user I've made numerous attempts at getting into Modo over the last year couple of years or so but it never clicked, one of the main reasons being that I found ditching the modifier stack workflow was just ludicrous.
I recently had a bash at the 901 trial, and had a pretty high number of objects to model for a project I was working on. I made myself promise I would not jump back into Blender as soon as I hit a struggle, and for once everything actually clicked. It really is as fast as it reputation claims. And even things like symmetry and can be added and removed within seconds one you know your way around, making the lack of modifier stack a non-issue.
Out of the apps i've tried i've always loved Blender for modelling. but Modo may have just topped it.
I don't know if you have ever filled in the Autodesk crash forms but I have filled out a lot of them over the last 11 years I have been working in games using both max and maya. I have never once gotten a response from Autodesk.
We look at these all the time.
I contact people only when needing more information.
Also very good is that you can sell your lisence and as a hobby user get Modo pretty cheap if you have luck and look every second day in the Marketplace Forum, thats how i got mine and the Foundry do 2-3 times in the year a sale with 20-50% .
What should be noted is that Modo behaves sometimes strange and you will have much more problems with Mac and AMD Cards, thats what can be read on the forums, i dont have one.
Not everyone has that much fun with Modo, its a hit and miss.
Modo has performance problems in some areas but this can change with Fabric Engine.
I come from Max and Maya ages ago, and I've been using Modo Indie for a few weeks. My thoughts as a modeler:
- The Ui is fantastic, it just feels really modern. Reminds me a bit of XSI Ui with how slick things look.
- The layer system takes a while to get used to. The fact that every separate mesh object gets treated as one Item is a bit odd. Copy paste is also strange at first.
- Because of the layer system, booleans can be convoluted unless you use Scripts. Indie doesn't allow scripts so I used a macro that does same thing.
-Selection options are fantastic! Much faster than max and Maya
-Default tool settings are very different from Max or Maya. You will drive yourself nuts the first few models wondering why you're moving the pivot vs an element. For example in maya or Max its very easy to extend edges. In max you hold Shift, and as long as you hold SHift you can keep extending. Let go of the mouse button, you start a new poly. Sounds easy enough, not in modo with the default options. You have to keep clicking Z and dropping the tool. Dropping tools is a another strange concept that takes a while to wrap your head around.
- Pior mentioned this once before and I agree with him. 801 at least feels a bit finicky. For example when you're first creating a basic primitive, things get choppy while adjusting the dimensions. Same with some other random operations. I'm not sure if this was fixed with 901. Also there is general lack of solidity when you first start using it, hard to explain. In maya/max the things feel a bit more stable.
-The hotkey system is awesome, its so easy binding commands and macros. This may seem like a small thing but coming from max, it's great!
-The tools! you can spend days just playing around with all cool slices,bends,twists,and clones available. Love action centers and the Construction plane, handy stuff.
Overall I think it's very good application, better than Max/Maya in somethings, and different in others. Honestly if you're a freelancer modeler,Concept designer or hobbyist, Modo INdie is a great value. Blender of course is the best deal out there imo, I just couldn't get a handle of its UI.
What is the feature or function when Tor Frick too a box at the 10 second mark and rounded the edges into half a circle, that is so useful i dont think MAX has anything like that
-Default tool settings are very different from Max or Maya. You will drive yourself nuts the first few models wondering why you're moving the pivot vs an element. For example in maya or Max its very easy to extend edges. In max you hold Shift, and as long as you hold SHift you can keep extending. Let go of the mouse button, you start a new poly. Sounds easy enough, not in modo with the default options. You have to keep clicking Z and dropping the tool. Dropping tools is a another strange concept that takes a while to wrap your head around.
Actually you don't have to drop the tool, you just extend the edge, shift+click, extend, shift+click, etc.
Shift+click will always apply the current tool without dropping it.
What is the feature or function when Tor Frick too a box at the 10 second mark and rounded the edges into half a circle, that is so useful i dont think MAX has anything like that
That's actually another thing worth mentioning about modo. All the tools can be used in all modes, the bevel tool works on faces, edges and verts. So it kind of combines the extrude, bevel, inset, chamfer and other tools in one. It reduces the amount of hotkeys you need to memorize quite a bit, which let's you memorize even more hotkeys :P
And setting hotkeys is as easy as rightclicking on an action in the history and assigning it to a key combination, so you will find yourself setting new hotkeys on the fly pretty often.
Actually you don't have to drop the tool, you just extend the edge, shift+click, extend, shift+click, etc.
Shift+click will always apply the current tool without dropping it.
To add to this, if you click the MMB while the tool is active it will redo your last operation with the tool, kind of like pressing 1 in zbrush. If you did an extrusion of 1 cm, and hit MMB it'll repeat it. You get used to these keys really fast and it's very intuitive.
For me, the thing is that Modo was useless out of the box to me. So there's a big incentive to customize it. Max is tolerable out of the box... so a modded out Modo will ALWAYS beat a vanilla max.
However, I took the time to learn how to script in max, so I don't see myself ever leaving max. It just fits me too well.
And plus, lack of stack and proper edge constraints in modo just kills me.
I wanted to love modo some time ago. I still want. There`s just so many quirks and things that are taken for granted in max/maya that dont work in modo...
- There`s no proper symmetry tools (possibly fixed in 901, but maya 2015+ has great sym too)
- There`s no usable vertex normal edit tools.
- Modo relax brush in topo mode doesnt stick to the background mesh.
No topology relax brush = no character modelling/retopo. Its just so useful in max/maya/3d coat.
- UVs bugs all the time. They weld when symmetrized, sometimes they get all disconnected when exported in FBX.
- material editor has the worst UI/UX I`ve seen in a 3d package, so setting up a render is a pain.
- hotkeys are easy to set up, but config export bugs/works not intuitive.
- UI looks modern, but customizing it is also not intuitive. Even resetting to default took me some time.
This is just my experience with modo from a modeller standpoint. Hope they`ll fix those someday.
Can you elaborate please? I'm interested to know how you do it in MAX.
In max, you just press shift+x to toggle edge constraints on, and then moving verts/edges faces/ will move along the edges of your mesh, similar what the slide tool does in modo. but you can still use other tools, for example scaling, with the constraints on. just feels a bit handier in max than in modo and i missed it more than i thought i would :P
I wanted to love modo some time ago. I still want. There`s just so many quirks and things that are taken for granted in max/maya that dont work in modo...
(1) - There`s no proper symmetry tools (possibly fixed in 901, but maya 2015+ has great sym too)
(2)- There`s no usable vertex normal edit tools.
(3)- Modo relax brush in topo mode doesnt stick to the background mesh.
No topology relax brush = no character modelling/retopo. Its just so useful in max/maya/3d coat.
(4)- UVs bugs all the time. They weld when symmetrized, sometimes they get all disconnected when exported in FBX.
(5)- material editor has the worst UI/UX I`ve seen in a 3d package, so setting up a render is a pain.
(6)- hotkeys are easy to set up, but config export bugs/works not intuitive.
(7)- UI looks modern, but customizing it is also not intuitive. Even resetting to default took me some time.
This is just my experience with modo from a modeller standpoint. Hope they`ll fix those someday.
The good news is that most of what you said is wrong.
I'd write that off as not being familiar enough with the program.
1) Of course there is proper symmetry, and multiple ways to approach it as well not only with the symmetry toggle but also by mirroring an instance, there's a tool dedicated to it. 901's improvement added symmetry support for asymmetrical meshes. See: https://youtu.be/YkNNvemdXBI?t=2m27s
2) Have you tried the transform normals tool?
See: https://youtu.be/C7YAnIj6W1Y Seems usable to me.
For the most part though, Farfarer's vertex normal toolkit is a personal favorite for Modo users.
3) This is simply a false statement. In the topology tab, you can find a tool called smooth. This sticks to the surface of the mesh you are retopologizing on top of. It reacts to the entire mesh or whatever you select, same concept works in the UV editor. If you want to use the paint brush to smooth it out instead, just turn mesh constraint to background (its under the basic tab), and your smooth (aka relax) will stick to the surface.
4) Have never seen such bugs as these. Make sure you look at the tool properties, there are a couple toggles that will keep your uvs from welding if you dont want them too. These are just the basics. Any selected face can also be toggled to split from the UV island if you move, rotate or scale them. Easy!
5) This is subjective. I do agree with you though in that I prefer a more visual approach, however the process for setting up materials on a basic level is extremely simple. The biggest mistake people make is not understanding the shader tree, its layer types and the proper order of things. Setting up a material is as simple as having a material mask/group, a shader layer tied to it (or use the base shader), and a material layer. Adding layers for diffuse, spec..ect in the material group gives you additional input. Clicking on the layer will reveal the properties for that layer. Additionally, you have substance integration for substance materials AND also a visual approach to slapping preset materials on. See: https://youtu.be/K1-iPexmJ1g (a bit old but same process applies)
- On the rendering aspect, there is a quick render plugin (called render monkey) that makes it a bit more simplified and streamlined. There are also lighting approaches and presets that are as simple as drag n drop. Ultimately though if one were to get technical with it, yeah its like Maya's Mental Ray in that it has layers of complexity.
- We are game artist though, its not too detrimental. I do agree though that it can use some improvement, visually, at communicating whats going on between layers and a streamlining of the rendering process is in order. I would go as far as to say some parts are convoluted, but once you become familiar enough with it then its not as much of a problem as a pet peeve. They are aware of it though, wouldnt be surprised to see the process get a bit more love as the updates roll in.
- Dont forget theres node workflow support. The bigger problem is that theres not a lot of documentation and tutorials covering it.
6) This is a bit confusing, you export config. Its as simple as that. You could also export multiple configs based on the changes you make in increments if you want to target a specific area, and just load those in. It works. I might be something that could have a wizard or ui dedicated to it but I cant see that as being a big issue... at least I havent seen it bother too many people. Would be curious to see how other Modo users feel about this though. (feels a bit nitpicky at this point)
7) Ok this one is silly. You drag and dock various parts of the layout into where you want. How is that not intuitive. Each docked panel has a little icon or option in which you are presented with some very obvious functions... such as duplicate, split, detach. Setting up custom panels gets into more power user stuff, this requires knowing the correct categories (theres a list you can pull down with nested options) as well as using the form editor in combination with it if you need it. 901 also introduced the ability to pin floating menus around the workspace, it looks great.
Ok so covering all of that... and I mean this respectfully, I think you should spend a bit more time working with Modo and identifying where the tools/functionality are before saying they are not there. I know from experience that its tempting to do that with other software I have started to use, only to find it was just me not knowing it well enough.
The feedback section in the Foundry forums is a great place to discuss and contribute to certain areas you think need improvement. I can honestly say that MODO has covered the most important aspects and its a joy to work with. I think we can all agree that most software can use a bit of polish and refinement as time goes on. Modo is def not the exception.
What I think this really boils down to is that the Foundry really needs to put more training material out there and quick tutorials communicating how to really maximize on Modo usage.
Replies
Disclaimer, I've barely used it and just started trying to pick it up, and I used mostly Softimage before that.
And Blizzard https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://community.thefoundry.co.uk/discussion/topic.aspx%3Ff%3D8%26t%3D113648&ved=0CB0QFjAAahUKEwjY5L2U7onHAhXOGo4KHTlPAp8&usg=AFQjCNG1e6Dtt8pzPuqQ8-bLsoMDVl3Diw
Beyond the sheer pro consumer mentality, Modo is by far the best modeling application I have seen so far. Part of the reason for this is that its very smart in its design, everything is tightly integrated as well. You can create and combine various tools from other tools, macros and custom menu's/pie menus are easy to create.
Modeling does not destroy the UVs but instead the UVs adapt to the users actions. Like Maya, you use the right tool for the right job, but many of them are unlike anything we have really seen before. They just work and there are many layers of functionality tied to each tool. The Dynamic workplane gives the user a secondary grid they can apply to any surface or direction with a click of the button. It is insanely powerful. Next up is the action center for advanced global, local transform options...and then the falloffs act as modifiers which can create fields that effect everything from geometry to particles.
Selection features are also probably the best in the industry. Whether its selecting edge loops, patterns or just painting a selection...its almost automated due to the ease in which its been implemented.
The Item Tree and Shader Tree is a unique take on the outliner/material organization, it uses an advanced layer system which is far superior to any outliner I have seen so far. Mesh layers can include as many meshes as you want, they can easily switch between layers or even nested layers. Copy, cut, paste, the usual hotkeys work mesh items too... think photoshop but made for a DCC package.
The workflow is rock solid, modeling I already went over, but after that you have a tab dedicated to retopology (its tools can work in any mode) that specializes in intuitive retopology (think topogun/3d coat). The UV editor is a kind of black magic, same intuitive consistent controls but the unwraps are nearly perfect with very little editing required. Again your UVs are preserved if you begin modeling or editing the topology. You could even decimate the mesh and the UVs will be preserved as close as possible. Great for making LODs with a click of the button.
Baking is powerful but it can be a bit convoluted. The short of it is that you can say, create an image layer set as a normal map then right click on the layer and tell modo to bake the normal map information onto it. Thats it. Simple, but the challenging part is just getting familiar with the types of bakes it can do and what the settings are to get the best results. There are however some kits that streamline the process (think xnormal) so its not so bad. Did I mention its fast?
The sculpting and painting tools are also consistent with the rest of the application. They work very well given that they are part of a larger 3d package, but will pale in comparison to Zbrush/3D Coat. Still you can get some great results and the tools work regardless of what mode you are in. The sculpting HUD is extremely easy to work with. With 901 there are now sculpting layers as well.
Its also growing up pretty fast, with each year offering a handful of significant improvements. The new advanced viewport is built on top of whats being done in Mari, and both viewports will be developed together as one bigger area of development (parity).
Game studios and publishers have shown an interest in Modo, and you can find a handful of artist using it as their primary driver at the studio. Everyone from Blizzard to Valve, Id and Gearbox...ect Its a great game asset creation tool. Is it anywhere as popular as Maya or Max? No but its working on it. There is still a lot of ground to cover in terms of wide spread studio adoption.
There are a lot of reasons to use Modo but the only way to really show off how great it is to use it. Try the demo or grab indie for cheap ($10 a month or $299 perpetual). I recommend switching it to the maya control scheme and turning off track ball rotation, this will make it conventional and familiar. Alternate keymaps (navigation) are included with Modo and they are officially supported.
[ame]
[ame]
[ame]
There's a 30 day demo available. You could find out first hand.
Modo simply feels well thought out. You start to notice that max/maya are really old programs that kept building up on their old fundament. Modo in contrast was kind of build from scratch and that is also why each new version added so much cool stuff in comparison to the already "complete" autodesk programs.
However, that also means that Modo is less "complete". it doesn't really have the same kind of depth in animation, dynamics, fluids simulations and all these advanced features. That's why you probably won't see it as the primary 3d package in Hollywood anytime soon. But when it comes to the basic features, like modeling and unwrapping, Modo does an amazing job.
So 3ds max is almost identical for all intents and purposes as R2 (97-98?) and Maya is just really powerful but super intricate.
Modo is super modern, with a few quirks. It makes hobby 3D'ing fun again.
The version you buy is yours forever. You pay for upgrades to newer versions and get service packs for free.
I got a 30 day extension on my trial to give it another shot.
Peter Stammbach (https://www.youtube.com/user/stammpe2) has a ton of modeling videos for MODO plus he sounds like a friendly grandfather so it's awesome.
Most applications don't have one, while it is nice its not the only way to work. If it was the best approach, I think everyone else would be trying to add them.
I personally have never felt limited by a lack of a max like modifier stack, but then again if you come from Maya the Modo approach will feel far more natural.
There a max users who finally got used to not using or thinking along the lines of a modifier stack and now feel liberated due to it. Pros and cons.
On that note its worth pointing out these developments....
https://vimeo.com/132523439
https://vimeo.com/132732105
And lolAutodesk already license Modifier Stacks for their MAX.
Other than that pretty much every tool in Modo feels smarter than what I've used in Maya. Loop slice is the best thing ever. Seriously.
I'm dowloading Snefer gumroad tutorial, pretty sure i'll be like : ohhh myy, you can do that in modo !
???
If you want to hide faces in Modo, you just need to click on them and press H. If you want to hide everything except the selected faces, you press Shift+H.
You can do the same thing by selecting an edge or vertex and it'll hide whatever polygons that edge or vertex is connected to.
To me, MODO is something that's actually enjoyable to use. It starts fast, the tools work across everything (you can add edge loops to your mesh from the UV layout, the sculpting tools work on regular meshes as well as sculpts and UVs, etc.) and the easily set up action centres/axes and falloffs make things really flexible when modeling.
Something about it's envisioned workflow matches very closely with the way I think about modeling. It's really lots of small things working together rather than a standout feature or two.
Personally, I don't like the modeling history/stack of Max/Maya as I started learning in Lightwave... it's never seemed a big loss to me. I'm very used to the more raw, seat-of-your-pants approach to modeling.
It's not perfect by any means, but then neither is any if the competition.
Here's Snefer's latest upload:
[ame]
I came for the selectioncapabilities and sub-tools, stayed for the customisation. Went from lightwave -> Maya -> Modo. Just keep finding new improvements to my workflows constantly. Too bad i cant script worth shit, otherwise i would make more scripts, haha.
What I initially chose to learn Modo for was the modeling toolset as well as the render and lighting stuff. It is really easy to set up complex lighting and shaders in Modo with just drag and drop and the stuff you drag and drop actually looks like what you want it to. Copy and past, show and hide are all simple things that are hard to live without now.
I recently had a bash at the 901 trial, and had a pretty high number of objects to model for a project I was working on. I made myself promise I would not jump back into Blender as soon as I hit a struggle, and for once everything actually clicked. It really is as fast as it reputation claims. And even things like symmetry and can be added and removed within seconds one you know your way around, making the lack of modifier stack a non-issue.
Out of the apps i've tried i've always loved Blender for modelling. but Modo may have just topped it.
We look at these all the time.
I contact people only when needing more information.
-Kees
What should be noted is that Modo behaves sometimes strange and you will have much more problems with Mac and AMD Cards, thats what can be read on the forums, i dont have one.
Not everyone has that much fun with Modo, its a hit and miss.
Modo has performance problems in some areas but this can change with Fabric Engine.
- The Ui is fantastic, it just feels really modern. Reminds me a bit of XSI Ui with how slick things look.
- The layer system takes a while to get used to. The fact that every separate mesh object gets treated as one Item is a bit odd. Copy paste is also strange at first.
- Because of the layer system, booleans can be convoluted unless you use Scripts. Indie doesn't allow scripts so I used a macro that does same thing.
-Selection options are fantastic! Much faster than max and Maya
-Default tool settings are very different from Max or Maya. You will drive yourself nuts the first few models wondering why you're moving the pivot vs an element. For example in maya or Max its very easy to extend edges. In max you hold Shift, and as long as you hold SHift you can keep extending. Let go of the mouse button, you start a new poly. Sounds easy enough, not in modo with the default options. You have to keep clicking Z and dropping the tool. Dropping tools is a another strange concept that takes a while to wrap your head around.
- Pior mentioned this once before and I agree with him. 801 at least feels a bit finicky. For example when you're first creating a basic primitive, things get choppy while adjusting the dimensions. Same with some other random operations. I'm not sure if this was fixed with 901. Also there is general lack of solidity when you first start using it, hard to explain. In maya/max the things feel a bit more stable.
-The hotkey system is awesome, its so easy binding commands and macros. This may seem like a small thing but coming from max, it's great!
-The tools! you can spend days just playing around with all cool slices,bends,twists,and clones available. Love action centers and the Construction plane, handy stuff.
Overall I think it's very good application, better than Max/Maya in somethings, and different in others. Honestly if you're a freelancer modeler,Concept designer or hobbyist, Modo INdie is a great value. Blender of course is the best deal out there imo, I just couldn't get a handle of its UI.
Actually you don't have to drop the tool, you just extend the edge, shift+click, extend, shift+click, etc.
Shift+click will always apply the current tool without dropping it.
It is just the Bevel tool (Chamfer in Max).
Ha i guess im just a max peasant. So does this make MODO the Master Race ?
And setting hotkeys is as easy as rightclicking on an action in the history and assigning it to a key combination, so you will find yourself setting new hotkeys on the fly pretty often.
To add to this, if you click the MMB while the tool is active it will redo your last operation with the tool, kind of like pressing 1 in zbrush. If you did an extrusion of 1 cm, and hit MMB it'll repeat it. You get used to these keys really fast and it's very intuitive.
However, I took the time to learn how to script in max, so I don't see myself ever leaving max. It just fits me too well.
And plus, lack of stack and proper edge constraints in modo just kills me.
- There`s no proper symmetry tools (possibly fixed in 901, but maya 2015+ has great sym too)
- There`s no usable vertex normal edit tools.
- Modo relax brush in topo mode doesnt stick to the background mesh.
No topology relax brush = no character modelling/retopo. Its just so useful in max/maya/3d coat.
- UVs bugs all the time. They weld when symmetrized, sometimes they get all disconnected when exported in FBX.
- material editor has the worst UI/UX I`ve seen in a 3d package, so setting up a render is a pain.
- hotkeys are easy to set up, but config export bugs/works not intuitive.
- UI looks modern, but customizing it is also not intuitive. Even resetting to default took me some time.
This is just my experience with modo from a modeller standpoint. Hope they`ll fix those someday.
In max, you just press shift+x to toggle edge constraints on, and then moving verts/edges faces/ will move along the edges of your mesh, similar what the slide tool does in modo. but you can still use other tools, for example scaling, with the constraints on. just feels a bit handier in max than in modo and i missed it more than i thought i would :P
The good news is that most of what you said is wrong.
I'd write that off as not being familiar enough with the program.
1) Of course there is proper symmetry, and multiple ways to approach it as well not only with the symmetry toggle but also by mirroring an instance, there's a tool dedicated to it. 901's improvement added symmetry support for asymmetrical meshes. See: https://youtu.be/YkNNvemdXBI?t=2m27s
2) Have you tried the transform normals tool?
See: https://youtu.be/C7YAnIj6W1Y Seems usable to me.
For the most part though, Farfarer's vertex normal toolkit is a personal favorite for Modo users.
3) This is simply a false statement. In the topology tab, you can find a tool called smooth. This sticks to the surface of the mesh you are retopologizing on top of. It reacts to the entire mesh or whatever you select, same concept works in the UV editor. If you want to use the paint brush to smooth it out instead, just turn mesh constraint to background (its under the basic tab), and your smooth (aka relax) will stick to the surface.
4) Have never seen such bugs as these. Make sure you look at the tool properties, there are a couple toggles that will keep your uvs from welding if you dont want them too. These are just the basics. Any selected face can also be toggled to split from the UV island if you move, rotate or scale them. Easy!
5) This is subjective. I do agree with you though in that I prefer a more visual approach, however the process for setting up materials on a basic level is extremely simple. The biggest mistake people make is not understanding the shader tree, its layer types and the proper order of things. Setting up a material is as simple as having a material mask/group, a shader layer tied to it (or use the base shader), and a material layer. Adding layers for diffuse, spec..ect in the material group gives you additional input. Clicking on the layer will reveal the properties for that layer. Additionally, you have substance integration for substance materials AND also a visual approach to slapping preset materials on. See: https://youtu.be/K1-iPexmJ1g (a bit old but same process applies)
- On the rendering aspect, there is a quick render plugin (called render monkey) that makes it a bit more simplified and streamlined. There are also lighting approaches and presets that are as simple as drag n drop. Ultimately though if one were to get technical with it, yeah its like Maya's Mental Ray in that it has layers of complexity.
- We are game artist though, its not too detrimental. I do agree though that it can use some improvement, visually, at communicating whats going on between layers and a streamlining of the rendering process is in order. I would go as far as to say some parts are convoluted, but once you become familiar enough with it then its not as much of a problem as a pet peeve. They are aware of it though, wouldnt be surprised to see the process get a bit more love as the updates roll in.
- Dont forget theres node workflow support. The bigger problem is that theres not a lot of documentation and tutorials covering it.
6) This is a bit confusing, you export config. Its as simple as that. You could also export multiple configs based on the changes you make in increments if you want to target a specific area, and just load those in. It works. I might be something that could have a wizard or ui dedicated to it but I cant see that as being a big issue... at least I havent seen it bother too many people. Would be curious to see how other Modo users feel about this though. (feels a bit nitpicky at this point)
7) Ok this one is silly. You drag and dock various parts of the layout into where you want. How is that not intuitive. Each docked panel has a little icon or option in which you are presented with some very obvious functions... such as duplicate, split, detach. Setting up custom panels gets into more power user stuff, this requires knowing the correct categories (theres a list you can pull down with nested options) as well as using the form editor in combination with it if you need it. 901 also introduced the ability to pin floating menus around the workspace, it looks great.
Ok so covering all of that... and I mean this respectfully, I think you should spend a bit more time working with Modo and identifying where the tools/functionality are before saying they are not there. I know from experience that its tempting to do that with other software I have started to use, only to find it was just me not knowing it well enough.
The feedback section in the Foundry forums is a great place to discuss and contribute to certain areas you think need improvement. I can honestly say that MODO has covered the most important aspects and its a joy to work with. I think we can all agree that most software can use a bit of polish and refinement as time goes on. Modo is def not the exception.
What I think this really boils down to is that the Foundry really needs to put more training material out there and quick tutorials communicating how to really maximize on Modo usage.