From 2008 to 2016.5 Maya did a great jump in terms of cleaning UI. Maya has an insane horsepower under the bonnet, but most part of this power is undiscovered for perfunctory usage - that's a nature of Maya. Many cool features are hidden inside script commands. For instance, in Maya you can have 3 types of skinning - Linear, Dual Quaternion and blended. You can bind mesh to joints using one of those 3 types and you can't change in further... using UI )) But can easily switch between them via script commands. There's a plenty of such examples indeed. Maya is really hard to dig and get used to feel comfortable with. But once you harness this power you can do anything you want - from simply efficient modeling to scripted automation of most tasks and even create your own tools. You can turn it upside down (almost literally) for sure. The openness was layed into the foundation of Maya initially. All Maya scenes, maya settings and prefs, UI, tools... everything (but some binaries like MTK or other plugins) is just the scripted commands. That's cool )
I've been using Maya since 2006, and still haven't found a reason to script anything on my own. There's so many great scripts out there for free, that do almost anything you could ever need.
I'm curious what you mean when you say "the tiling isnt as good as in max".
@Laniakea @Joopson The need for scripting appears very naturally. In modeling 90% of time you use some set of tools and operations. After you repeated some sequence like click - select - run command - click again - press enter, say, 100 times you're getting argry - why the hell they didn't automated this sequence to make just 1 click. And you start to think, how to simplify / shorten your repetative tasks. In the end of the day you create your own set of tools optimized for your exact needs - your mate's setup won't ge the same good for you as this one. Because it's like a suite sewn strictly for you. I'm sure we all love to have just a little bit more free time for our life - why not to make your work as efficient as possible ? ) So sooner or later you eventually face this idea. And due the fact that Maya allows infinite customization and improvement you may even become a kinda customization junkie But seriously, you start scripting just when you can't google some specific script but want it so bad. P.S. The customization (not just setting and learning hotkeys) is very intrinsic to Maya users for the reasons I noted above.
From 2008 to 2016.5 Maya did a great jump in terms of cleaning UI. Maya has an insane horsepower under the bonnet, but most part of this power is undiscovered for perfunctory usage - that's a nature of Maya. Many cool features are hidden inside script commands. For instance, in Maya you can have 3 types of skinning - Linear, Dual Quaternion and blended. You can bind mesh to joints using one of those 3 types and you can't change in further... using UI )) But can easily switch between them via script commands. There's a plenty of such examples indeed. Maya is really hard to dig and get used to feel comfortable with. But once you harness this power you can do anything you want - from simply efficient modeling to scripted automation of most tasks and even create your own tools. You can turn it upside down (almost literally) for sure. The openness was layed into the foundation of Maya initially. All Maya scenes, maya settings and prefs, UI, tools... everything (but some binaries like MTK or other plugins) is just the scripted commands. That's cool )
Pasha, what are some resources to tap into the scripting command (hidden part of Maya) that has to do with modeling? I feel like I'm very well experienced in Maya's modeling tools, but I'd love to get under the hood.
From 2008 to 2016.5 Maya did a great jump in terms of cleaning UI. Maya has an insane horsepower under the bonnet, but most part of this power is undiscovered for perfunctory usage - that's a nature of Maya. Many cool features are hidden inside script commands. For instance, in Maya you can have 3 types of skinning - Linear, Dual Quaternion and blended. You can bind mesh to joints using one of those 3 types and you can't change in further... using UI )) But can easily switch between them via script commands. There's a plenty of such examples indeed. Maya is really hard to dig and get used to feel comfortable with. But once you harness this power you can do anything you want - from simply efficient modeling to scripted automation of most tasks and even create your own tools. You can turn it upside down (almost literally) for sure. The openness was layed into the foundation of Maya initially. All Maya scenes, maya settings and prefs, UI, tools... everything (but some binaries like MTK or other plugins) is just the scripted commands. That's cool )
Pasha, what are some resources to tap into the scripting command (hidden part of Maya) that has to do with modeling? I feel like I'm very well experienced in Maya's modeling tools, but I'd love to get under the hood.
Maya's documentation is a good place to start, there's some basic scripting info, and each command is well-documented (usually). Use their search on any command and bam! The script editor has an inline help too. This guide is a good starter, and so happens to be artist-oriented.
I've always been a fan of taking apart other peoples scripts to see how they do things. Maybe start small and give yourself a little project, or try to fix something that bugs you- Necessity is the mother of all invention, after all.
Pasha, what are some resources to tap into the scripting command (hidden part of Maya) that has to do with modeling? I feel like I'm very well experienced in Maya's modeling tools, but I'd love to get under the hood.
Just learn MEL since it pretty easy to learn and also Script Editor echos as command everything you do in Maya which is huge help especially when you lean what's usefull and how to utilize it. A lot of people will say to just learn Python straightaway which i agree if and only if you plan to dig a bit deaper into scripting but with MEL you can do really a lot As help with modeling and to automate things for what you usually click 5-10+ time down to a single click script. With just MEL i probably did around 30 various scripts as help for modeling that feels like it is a new Maya feature or update where infact is just connect the dots of what's already possible.
Pasha, what are some resources to tap into the scripting command (hidden part of Maya) that has to do with modeling? I feel like I'm very well experienced in Maya's modeling tools, but I'd love to get under the hood.
As @throttlekitty said, simple Maya scripting docs are just fine. Chad Vernon's site and his respective vide tutorials are all Python oriented. So they can hardly help with Mel.
Just learn MEL since it pretty easy to learn and also Script Editor echos as command everything you do in Maya which is huge help especially when you lean what's usefull and how to utilize it. A lot of people will say to just learn Python straightaway which i agree if and only if you plan to dig a bit deaper into scripting but with MEL you can do really a lot As help with modeling and to automate things for what you usually click 5-10+ time down to a single click script. With just MEL i probably did around 30 various scripts as help for modeling that feels like it is a new Maya feature or update where infact is just connect the dots of what's already possible.
Klaudio is right! maya's script editor shows almost all modeling scripting commands. It's really not that hard to get the point about how this staff works. As for "Python vs. Mel". I don't think there's some kind of "versus". They play on the one side, but within different weight classes.
Maya scripting learning curve is ofter very similar across different people. At fist you just grab some generated script editor code and tweak it a bit to fit your needs. Then you want some more (say, custom toolbars or windows) and you start to analyze some free script from some resources, like CreativeCrash. At some point you may get stuck with the performance. For automation staff mel is just fine, but when it comes to heavy calculations or algorythms - it starts to get harder and harder to write specific code, to optimize it. Complex mel code is hard to read and understand. And here you can switch to Python. It's clear, very simple and much more compact language - unlike mel. When you know Maya mel commands it's not a big deal to reproduce them it Python. But that's not all. Python is almost equivalent to C++ in Maya, because you can directly access Maya API. That's a next level of scripting. Here you can use QT-interfaces, optimize your code to your speed requirements, create true plugins (not just "drag to shelf" scripts) like custom deformers for animation. With Maya API you can draw custom geometric objects like locators with your customized shapes. Want a star-shaped locator? Not a problem within Maya API, but impossible with Mel.
My co-worker animator created his own Python-based setKeys command, which is x2.5 faster than vanilla setKey - for his animation rebaking needs the standard command was too slow.
So, you switch from Mel to Python as your needs and skills grow. You don't have to jump into complex Python tutorials - just to automate some simple tasks - it's using a steamhammer to crack a nut ))
P.S. @Klaudio2U - loving your KToools! Especially the function to split one mesh by another - very handy!
i wonder how 3ds max VS maya without any scripting? in modelling? which one are "junk" without scripting? i think maya is., to enjoy maya u must learn mel or py, but max all the tool all are ready to use. and, yeah... maya can make u become a better coder. every coder maniac will love maya for sure.
i wonder how 3ds max VS maya without any scripting? in modelling? which one are "junk" without scripting? i think maya is., to enjoy maya u must learn mel or py, but max all the tool all are ready to use. and, yeah... maya can make u become a better coder. every coder maniac will love maya for sure.
Yes, it's all true. Maya will make you better coder for sure. On the other hand, this may significantly improve your tools and workflow, make you much more efficient than using any other out-of-the-box solution like max. These are two opposite philosophies: invest into improvement but loose time or get used to existing restrictions but save time. Both approaches are valid, and everyone is free to choose approach better for him (her).
Max with scripting gets messy and chaotic. Especially when it comes to building modeling tools, because the ways in which you edit a mesh, are schizophrenic and in desperate need of unification.
There are 4 different modes to edit objects (Editable poly, Edit Poly, Editable Mesh, Edit Mesh). All of them have similar commands on the surface (cut, weld, ect) but in the back end they are completely separate commands called in very different ways.
So when you're scripting you either figure out 4 ways to do the same task, then figure out what mode the user is in and execute the correct set of commands. OR... What happens more often is a scripter figures out one way and force everyone to follow that workflow. Meaning if you get it working in "editable Poly" (the base object), you force people to collapse to the base object layer. Then users get confused why it doesn't work in Edit Poly (the modifier) which looks the same but is running on entirely different commands.
This disjoined and half assed way that max has been cobbled together over the years is a systemic problem. Upgrading Edit Mesh? Nope, they appropriated a popular plugin "Edit Poly". Bloat. Upgrade Edit poly? Nope, they appropriated polyboost. Bloat.
Its as if they build a house without a bathroom and later found out how cool indoor plumbing is. They went to add a bathroom to their house and instead of extending the foundation, laying pipes, putting up walls and doing the electrical, they just hung a sign on the wall with instructions to take the bus to the nearest public toilet.
Once you dig into it you run into this crap all over the place. Maya suffers from it also, Modo is a little cleaner but not widely used and documentation and examples aren't that robust.
Once you dig into it you run into this crap all over the place. Maya suffers from it also, Modo is a little cleaner but not widely used and documentation and examples aren't that robust.
Right, man. As I said somewhere above, Max is much more Frankenstein than Maya. Everything AD (or any other big corp) does has more or less Frankensteining. Maya isn't brilliant under the hood, but Max is ugly. No one can see this difference unless they wanna dig deeper into creating something custom. That's why I truly respect guys who create masterpieces in Max (like Blur guys!) - "Per aspera ad astra".
my personal preference lies with Maya but that's only because I have more experience with it, Max is still a superb program, I just think it's a little clunky.
I agree, Maya is my baby and it's getting better!
IMO, max's navigation with the middle mouse button has always killed it for me. Along with it's lack of advanced precise snapping features as that of Maya.
My story is I used Blender>Maya>Max. Max is the way to go. Max excels at nearly everything over Maya. Rigging and animation maya excels. Although, AD are improving max in that area and max is catching up fast in rigging and animation. Stock max with no scripts already offers more than Maya, imagine max with scripts.
In my experience, simple tools like symmetry in Maya are horrible. So clunky. Max forever.
My story is I used Blender>Maya>Max. Max is the way to go. Max excels at nearly everything over Maya. Rigging and animation maya excels. Although, AD are improving max in that area and max is catching up fast in rigging and animation. Stock max with no scripts already offers more than Maya, imagine max with scripts.
In my experience, simple tools like symmetry in Maya are horrible. So clunky. Max forever.
Yeah I'm finding that Maya still haven't caught up to Max in modeling just yet. Curve to Mesh is far more easier to do in Max with one button no scripts required. Boolean system is better, pivot setup is better, align tools are better, and selection tools are better. Imo of course
I've been using both , 90% maya for about 10 years I think maya is better in any aspect for poly modeling , switching to smooth mode quickly is essential which max lacks of (pressing number 3 in maya) maya's viewport 2 is incomparable to max's viewport for performance , it is much faster I have used uv mapping tools in 3ds max a bit , it freezes when object is large and automatic uv mapping crashes every time
since 2015 maya has a new plugin for unfolding uvs called unfold 3d and I think it is the best for unfolding uvs
for poly modeling , switching to smooth mode quickly is essential which max lacks of (pressing number 3 in maya)
For max I generally just add a turbosmooth right away and toggle end result on my other modifiers via hotkey - does the same thing just with an extra step (Though I guess with the added bonus of actually seeing your final geometry)
Replies
The openness was layed into the foundation of Maya initially. All Maya scenes, maya settings and prefs, UI, tools... everything (but some binaries like MTK or other plugins) is just the scripted commands. That's cool )
I'm curious what you mean when you say "the tiling isnt as good as in max".
@Joopson
The need for scripting appears very naturally. In modeling 90% of time you use some set of tools and operations. After you repeated some sequence like click - select - run command - click again - press enter, say, 100 times you're getting argry - why the hell they didn't automated this sequence to make just 1 click. And you start to think, how to simplify / shorten your repetative tasks. In the end of the day you create your own set of tools optimized for your exact needs - your mate's setup won't ge the same good for you as this one. Because it's like a suite sewn strictly for you. I'm sure we all love to have just a little bit more free time for our life - why not to make your work as efficient as possible ? ) So sooner or later you eventually face this idea. And due the fact that Maya allows infinite customization and improvement you may even become a kinda customization junkie
P.S. The customization (not just setting and learning hotkeys) is very intrinsic to Maya users for the reasons I noted above.
Maya's documentation is a good place to start, there's some basic scripting info, and each command is well-documented (usually). Use their search on any command and bam! The script editor has an inline help too. This guide is a good starter, and so happens to be artist-oriented.
I've always been a fan of taking apart other peoples scripts to see how they do things. Maybe start small and give yourself a little project, or try to fix something that bugs you- Necessity is the mother of all invention, after all.
A lot of people will say to just learn Python straightaway which i agree if and only if you plan to dig a bit deaper into scripting but with MEL you can do really a lot As help with modeling and to automate things for what you usually click 5-10+ time down to a single click script.
With just MEL i probably did around 30 various scripts as help for modeling that feels like it is a new Maya feature or update where infact is just connect the dots of what's already possible.
Klaudio is right! maya's script editor shows almost all modeling scripting commands. It's really not that hard to get the point about how this staff works.
As for "Python vs. Mel". I don't think there's some kind of "versus". They play on the one side, but within different weight classes.
Maya scripting learning curve is ofter very similar across different people. At fist you just grab some generated script editor code and tweak it a bit to fit your needs. Then you want some more (say, custom toolbars or windows) and you start to analyze some free script from some resources, like CreativeCrash. At some point you may get stuck with the performance. For automation staff mel is just fine, but when it comes to heavy calculations or algorythms - it starts to get harder and harder to write specific code, to optimize it. Complex mel code is hard to read and understand. And here you can switch to Python. It's clear, very simple and much more compact language - unlike mel. When you know Maya mel commands it's not a big deal to reproduce them it Python. But that's not all. Python is almost equivalent to C++ in Maya, because you can directly access Maya API. That's a next level of scripting. Here you can use QT-interfaces, optimize your code to your speed requirements, create true plugins (not just "drag to shelf" scripts) like custom deformers for animation. With Maya API you can draw custom geometric objects like locators with your customized shapes. Want a star-shaped locator? Not a problem within Maya API, but impossible with Mel.
My co-worker animator created his own Python-based setKeys command, which is x2.5 faster than vanilla setKey - for his animation rebaking needs the standard command was too slow.
So, you switch from Mel to Python as your needs and skills grow. You don't have to jump into complex Python tutorials - just to automate some simple tasks - it's using a steamhammer to crack a nut ))
P.S. @Klaudio2U - loving your KToools! Especially the function to split one mesh by another - very handy!
which one are "junk" without scripting?
i think maya is., to enjoy maya u must learn mel or py, but max all the tool all are ready to use.
and, yeah... maya can make u become a better coder. every coder maniac will love maya for sure.
There are 4 different modes to edit objects (Editable poly, Edit Poly, Editable Mesh, Edit Mesh). All of them have similar commands on the surface (cut, weld, ect) but in the back end they are completely separate commands called in very different ways.
So when you're scripting you either figure out 4 ways to do the same task, then figure out what mode the user is in and execute the correct set of commands.
OR...
What happens more often is a scripter figures out one way and force everyone to follow that workflow. Meaning if you get it working in "editable Poly" (the base object), you force people to collapse to the base object layer. Then users get confused why it doesn't work in Edit Poly (the modifier) which looks the same but is running on entirely different commands.
This disjoined and half assed way that max has been cobbled together over the years is a systemic problem.
Upgrading Edit Mesh? Nope, they appropriated a popular plugin "Edit Poly". Bloat.
Upgrade Edit poly? Nope, they appropriated polyboost. Bloat.
Its as if they build a house without a bathroom and later found out how cool indoor plumbing is. They went to add a bathroom to their house and instead of extending the foundation, laying pipes, putting up walls and doing the electrical, they just hung a sign on the wall with instructions to take the bus to the nearest public toilet.
Once you dig into it you run into this crap all over the place. Maya suffers from it also, Modo is a little cleaner but not widely used and documentation and examples aren't that robust.
In my experience, simple tools like symmetry in Maya are horrible. So clunky.
Max forever.
I think maya is better in any aspect
for poly modeling , switching to smooth mode quickly is essential which max lacks of (pressing number 3 in maya)
maya's viewport 2 is incomparable to max's viewport for performance , it is much faster
I have used uv mapping tools in 3ds max a bit , it freezes when object is large and automatic uv mapping crashes every time
since 2015 maya has a new plugin for unfolding uvs called unfold 3d and I think it is the best for unfolding uvs