Are there positions for level designers who aren't artists?
I like level designing. I have a degree from a legitimate brick and mortar university in their arts and technology program. (The university is respected, the program is a mess and I honestly would have switched programs if I hadn't been going off and on and was already so far in, but nonetheless I have a 4 year degree).
I've only been able to find one "job", without pay, basically interning. It was supposed to turn to a paid gig but "somehow" things kept slipping through the cracks. (Right). So I respectfully resigned after 8ish months.
It's been over a year since and I just cannot find a thing. I can't even get a rejection letter.
I'd post my portfolio but I have it down at the moment to revamp it. In hindsight I suppose I should have finished that before making the post. I guess that's why it's 20/20. I don't want to brag, but I think my hindsight is 20/15.
Now my issues:
1) I'm not a conventional artist. I am not good at 3D modeling. That is to say I can block out scenes for level designs and I'm aware how to FUNCTIONALLY use 3D software like 3DS Max and Maya, but I can't make pretty things.
2) I'm getting old. I recently turned 30. I don't mind paying my dues, but at what point am I just slamming my head into a mountain hoping that the peak lowers?
So I guess, long story short, are there positions for people who like to conceive levels, build them with assets they did not create, and script events for said levels?
The only other thing I've ever had interest in was animation, but I'd be so far behind in practice that I don't know if I could ever catch up to some of these people.
I've put so much time into trying to get anywhere in the industry that even thinking about going back to what I was doing before makes me want to crawl into a tank of scorpions.
I've only been able to find one "job", without pay, basically interning. It was supposed to turn to a paid gig but "somehow" things kept slipping through the cracks. (Right). So I respectfully resigned after 8ish months.
It's been over a year since and I just cannot find a thing. I can't even get a rejection letter.
I'd post my portfolio but I have it down at the moment to revamp it. In hindsight I suppose I should have finished that before making the post. I guess that's why it's 20/20. I don't want to brag, but I think my hindsight is 20/15.
Now my issues:
1) I'm not a conventional artist. I am not good at 3D modeling. That is to say I can block out scenes for level designs and I'm aware how to FUNCTIONALLY use 3D software like 3DS Max and Maya, but I can't make pretty things.
2) I'm getting old. I recently turned 30. I don't mind paying my dues, but at what point am I just slamming my head into a mountain hoping that the peak lowers?
So I guess, long story short, are there positions for people who like to conceive levels, build them with assets they did not create, and script events for said levels?
The only other thing I've ever had interest in was animation, but I'd be so far behind in practice that I don't know if I could ever catch up to some of these people.
I've put so much time into trying to get anywhere in the industry that even thinking about going back to what I was doing before makes me want to crawl into a tank of scorpions.
Replies
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=154588
Could you maybe post some of your art.
You could look up typical creative director responsibilities and try to Master the rest of the job, and apply to that, but without much history in the industry or a position specific degree in that area I think you might have a hard time getting your foot in the door.
Why not learn 3d? It's not particularly difficult especially if you're already acquainted with some level of comfort in a 3d package.
I have almost literally no experience in games beyond the art department side, minus listening to the background conversations of other employees in other departments, so I'm not saying the above post is accurate, just my impression.
If I'm being honest with you there are two reasons:
1) I'm incredibly anal and I end up wasting a lot of time worrying about mesh flow.
2) I just really don't have too much passion in the making pretty assets department. I've tried it a few times but I think my lack of passion makes for a lackluster end result.
If I put anymore solid time into a 3D package I'd most likely try and switch gears to animation. But even then I feel like animators have a rough time finding work as it is.
Most of my time I spend in UE3/UE4 and a stint in Unity for that one game I mentioned working on earlier.
Can you post some of your work?
Seems like 1) and 2) contradict each other.
You did 4 years of art, what art skills have you actually got?
Can you post some of your UE3/UE4 projects?
Do you know any programming?
This,in fact I'd expect most large studios to be this way, and may go so far as to have different subclasses of level designer (whiteboxer, decorater, lighter, technical). I've wokred at more than one studio where level design was carried out by dedicated designers, and the artists were separate discipline and department (art).
I'm not home at the moment. I'll hobble something together when I get back to the house.
The classes I took were focused on level design and I did some animation electives. I only had a single course that was dedicated to modeling. So most of my skillset involves designing/building/scripting levels in Unreal Engine(s) using assets that I haven't personally made.
It wasn't solely art, though. It was art and technology so it was a mix of art and programming stuff. I know some Java, but I haven't used it in a while.
Yeah most big studios do separate Design from Art. Most that I know anyways.
Like we have 2 different types of designers here at ND. Layout Designers and Scripting Designers and Combat Designers.
Layout Designers: blockout the levels, they make the rough blockmesh level that the player will playthrough. These are generally just blocks and shit to represent the space they want to create. They also rough in puzzles, combat spaces and areas to explore.
Scripting Designers: script the encounters in the game. Like oh we need to have enemy's spawn when they player gets here, or getting things to trigger when puzzles are done. Example could be like, ok we need this plane that the player is on to explode and the player falls out the back and grabs onto a cargo net and then has to climb back in. That would be part of the scripting designers job.
Environment Artists: art then takes the spaces roughed in by Layout Designers and build props for them and assemble the world. They decide what the level is going to look like based on the blockmesh. Lots of discussion between Environment Art, Concept and Layout Designers go on to decide the look of the level but its the artist who places everything.
HOWEVER!
I do know some big studios like Treyarch/infinity ward that have the Designer/Art Layout position.
Environment Artists at Treyarch for the most part just build props for the environment and the Designer is the one who places everything.
There are tons of tools and places to do just that. Team Fortress has a huge community focused around building levels. People just use the assets already created so they can focus on design. Whats important is the map itself. The art is just there to make it look pretty, but it should play well in a blockmesh state. If it doesn't, then the design is weak.
Unity has a ton of tools and tutorials on how to design and script simple game prototpes. So does Unreal. If you want to actually be a designer get crackin and design some fun games or maps. Telling people, hey these are my ideas for a cool game or design idea will NEVER EVER get you anywhere. You have to be able to DO.
Also 30 isnt old at all.
Oh, absolutely. I totally am with you. I do have experience actually building the things I think of. I just don't use assets that I personally create with it.
I haven't gone as far as to make my own games with them, though. Mostly I'm creating things to be played in a first person perspective. Although with that stint where I was working for free I was creating things for a 2.5D perspective for a mobile Unity game.
I just want to make sure I'm not spinning my wheels. Because, like I mentioned before, if what I'm doing doesn't exist (or doesn't exist anymore) I have it in me to start over and try one more thing out (animation) before just giving it up.
IE if you're into multiplayer level design, you could always try making some TF2/CS:GO/natural-selection 2/Unreal Tournament/Quake/ etc. maps and getting them out there as well as putting links to them on your website. I'd probably pick the game closest to whatever job you'd like to design for (IE do you want to be a singleplayer level designer, puzzle maker, world builder like maybe for skyrim or the upcoming fallout 4, co-op level designer, focus on multiplayer or deathmatches, etc. I mean you can totally do all of them, it might help though in choosing a game close to what you'd like to work for)
There's always making small-scale games as well in your spare time if you want to mess around with the mechanics of a game more-so than being forced to work with a particular game already made. Make a bunch o' unity prototypes or screw around in UE4.
Basically find something that you'd actually enjoy and have fun doing, finish them, and get them out there for other people to play. I'd say the biggest challenge in art versus design is an artist's portfolio can be summed up in pictures. Pictures of your process might work well for a designer's portfolio, but the real value comes in what other people think of how your levels play.
Of course, you might know all of this stuff already from the sounds of it. I'd say focus on getting people to playtest your levels, put them up on community forums, join a few level designing communities, etc. Give links to play your levels, show your design process. Get reviews. I never tried it but you might even try asking some of those popular let's play people to test out your levels. (might be a good way to gain recognition, who knows!)
The one nice thing I can think of if you create your own small scale games, is that you can literally just put up the link to download the complete demo on your website, or even play it through something like Unity's (or unreals?) web browser plugin, versus someone at a company having to own that game, install it, and play it.
The good thing is is that you're being vocal about your wanting to work as a designer. Just get a portfolio together, keep working at it (have fun), and keep being vocal on game, level designer, or even art forums like polycount so you're more likely to be seen by someone who might end up wanting to hire you.
Best of luck!
I've encountered plenty of level designers who are not artists in the sense that they could create high quality assets using artist tools.
What is super helpful is having good artistic sensibilities and 3D design abilities. I'm generally disappointed when I see levels being designed by people who have little or no visual design aptitude. However, that is definitely NOT the same thing as having technical art skills that video game artists use.
Your age is not an issue.
Only doing is going to get you what you want.