Does not having a degree hinder my chances??
Hey Guys/Girls!
One question I have been pondering to myself lately is the question of, just having a diploma under my belt and no form of degree from an art school hinder my chances over those who do have them??
Ive been working soo dam hard on my portfolio over the last two months and I can say with confidence that it is at a level for me to even just land a junior position!
Ive applied for the all studios under the moon who are recruiting in the UK/some also in europe
thankfully after two weeks my luck seems good with Rockstar Games for an art assistant position
but the doubt is still there.... I just really hope after all of this hard work and commitment and really trying to make my cover letters shine 'hell il clean toilets if i had to for a month (obviously wont be the case
)' that the fact not having a degree will just shit on my parade.
thanks polycounters
One question I have been pondering to myself lately is the question of, just having a diploma under my belt and no form of degree from an art school hinder my chances over those who do have them??
Ive been working soo dam hard on my portfolio over the last two months and I can say with confidence that it is at a level for me to even just land a junior position!
Ive applied for the all studios under the moon who are recruiting in the UK/some also in europe
thankfully after two weeks my luck seems good with Rockstar Games for an art assistant position
but the doubt is still there.... I just really hope after all of this hard work and commitment and really trying to make my cover letters shine 'hell il clean toilets if i had to for a month (obviously wont be the case
)' that the fact not having a degree will just shit on my parade.thanks polycounters
Replies
Just my artstation as iam updating my portfolio site as we speak... just for you guys to get a feel of were iam at!.
My portfolio features alot more environment related art
I lucked out because the sheer number of years of experience I have under my belt was enough to nullify the degree requirement.
Plus, it's easy going from the United States to other countries, but going from other countries to the United States will prove more difficult without one.
The stupid thing here in Brazil is that they don't even care what the degree is in. It can be totally unrelated to art. All they care about is that you have one.
there are a lot of fields outside of the gaming industry, like vr, architecture or advertising, where a degree might be the only way to land a job
Tho, when it comes to working in different country (US!) it sure can lessen my chances of getting a visa and yadayada
That said, a degree is a good thing to have. A game-specific degree, however, is not necessary. If at all possible, I would recommend going to school part-time to get a degree, possibly after you have a job. It can be in almost anything. Game development draws from any number of different fields. You don't have to spend big to get your degree either. State-sponsored colleges are fine. (and in many ways preferable) Small-scale colleges like community colleges are fine as well, especially if you are looking at a more technical degree.
@Rchard Kain, I do indeed consider doing my degree part time once i get settled into a job and earning some dosh!
Thanks for the heads up! time to go more portfolio work!
The HR Firewall can be a formidable foe.
A lot of companies use automated software to find, sort and whittle down candidates. A lot of HR people are given a list of "keywords" and wouldn't know how to tell the difference between an artist and a programmer. A degree while not nearly as important as your portfolio can cause you to be stopped at the HR gate. In the US degrees are CRAZY expensive and for a field like this not really worth what you get out, which is often jack-and-squat.
In other places where they are cheaper and you get more out of it, I think its worth it. Especially considering how they are pretty much a minimum requirement for any other job in any other industry. Which it's good to have a fall back, in case you ever leave.
The future...
I'm probably going to sound pessimistic and full of doom, but these next few points are important to consider. The industry has proven to be very volatile and it has changed fairly regularly in quick secession as it has grown up. It's still pretty young but is starting to mellow out. Will you always be doing this until you retire in 40 years? What will games even look like? Its an industry that died ones and made a comeback, will it happen again?
Maybe you'll grow and adapt right along with it or maybe you'll get tired of low wages, long hours and being on an educational treadmill? Will you be able to stay one step ahead of automation? What if you get trapped in perma-temp hell or conditions deteriorate to the point you get frustrated and leave?
Keep in mind this industry, works like almost every other industry trying to minimize labor costs whenever possible. For most people in tech that means the loss of stability, stagnant or lower wages and increased living expenses. Instability might be fine when you're ready to move out of your parents basement but later when you own a basement and your kids are in a school they love, will you be ready to uproot everything?
All companies LOVE, LOVE! tax breaks. Which could attract a lot of businesses to an area that might be easy for you to get into a spot like Canada. But it might go just like Texas who just got rid of theirs, who knows how that will effect the area. Maybe another state or country will pounce? Will it be hard or easy to get into that new area? Will you want to uproot? What will the landscape be over the course of your career? *shrug*
Is having a back up plan a good idea? :poly142:
Ok, so back to your portfolio and what it's saying...
Poly optimization
I think you take this a little too far, remember you will be working on future titles and new releases that come out 1-2-3-4 years from now. The low counts are effecting your silhouettes making them look sharp and angular.
It's ok to soften some edges and help support the normal maps with a little geometry. Plus it's easier to reduce tris, but it can be a lot harder to add detail the way they are built right now. A little geometry might not seem necessary, but if it makes the asset easier to model, helps the silhouette hold its shape, helps it up/down res or allows you to unwrap it more efficiently it's not a waste. 10, 100 maybe even 1000-5000 tris extra, might not make that big of a performance difference.
Long polygons
Depending on the engine and how it handles materials, shaders and lighting, it can be good to break up long polygons and spread some verts around those large areas. Sometimes those things work on a per-vertex basis and having only verts scattered around the corners of big object, can lead to some weird visual bugs.
Extra detail in those long areas, can also give you the opportunity to add some character and history to your piece. Very few things in the world stay prefect straight with perfectly sharp 90 degree angles.
Clipping geometry
Floating geometry above the surface can waste a lot of texture space. Take the bumps on the dumpster for example, they hover over a large polygon and cover most of it and to get the same pixel density the large poly is going to eat up a lot of UV space. You can shrink it down so it eats up less UV space, but that could have ugly consequences on the areas you do see.
It can also make baking difficult and lead to a lot of seams. The texture repeating on the bumps is easy to spot. Again a little more geometry and a lot more contiguous meshes will help your silhouettes and your baking. The lid is pretty important and covers a lot of surface area, it also is a spot that can showcase a lot of history.
Quality over quantity ALWAYS!
Artists are generally a sentimental bunch and it works against us, myself included. Its a hard lesson to learn but its a necessary step for all production artists to take. The shotgun is hurting your portfolio and that will make employers question your ability to self critique. That is very very bad. It makes them question what your standard of quality will be and how much kicking and screaming you'll do when they point out flaws or ask for changes.
Texel Density
You seem to be using a lot of 1024x1024 for just about everything and while it generally looks good on each piece surrounded by the void, if you use 1024 on small and very large props your texel density is going to be all over the place. 1024 on a blowtorch will give you readable text but placed next to billboard or a dumpster and it might highlight how blurry the large props are.
Hitting a constant pixel density is important but so is nailing the technical limitations. Some engines prefer every texture to be 1024 so you might gang up several objects on one sheet. Keep in mind that 4, FOUR! 512x512 sheets fit into a single 1024x1024. Each texture step (256, 512, 1024 ect...) quadruples the number of pixels you have, it cuts the other way too. You need to be prepared to deal with that and balance the pixel density of large and small objects so they are consistent, within reason obsessing about it can be an exercise in extreme futility, but it can be a huge knock against you too so don't neglect it, show them you are mindful of it, they will pick up on it.
Whatever the technical constraints are, it is important to try and get as close to a consistent pixel to meter ratio but its not something you need to follow dogmatically just a REALLY good generalized principle to keep in mind. This thread illustrated that point pretty well: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1747569#post1747569
A lot of your textures wouldn't handle a down-res very well, some of them, like the robot are tightly packed with a lot of unique space given to pieces that could share the same space, freeing you up to use more pixels or smaller sheets.
Edge padding
You've packed a lot of pieces really close together and while it's good to use as many pixels as you can, it's important to pad them so neighboring pixels don't bleed into your live area. This illustrates the point pretty well: http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Edge_padding
With that said...
I think you have a great start on a kick ass portfolio. Your latest pieces show a lot of potential and progression, but you need to always be refreshing your portfolio because the next few pieces that you do will really help demonstrate what you can do, instead of showcasing where you've come from.
Good luck!
your right! Ive been busting a nut over last few weeks and ive progressed alot, i mean 3 weeks ago I would have no hope in hell of texturing how I do now!
Your also right on the optimization, I do obsess over TRI count and with UE4 etc out now, obviously you can use more lol... I guess its about also budgeting the total cost over the model ie: When i did the dumpster. I took some TRI cost from the main handle bar to use on the top parts of the plastic cover to give it a better silhouette.
I really hope if I keep this consistent i will FINALLY land a job in a studio! *Fingers crossed*
save up some cash! buy licences and then try hit the ground running with being self employed and working freelance in any shape or form!..
Always a dream I have had so we will see what happens!.. At least if i got this job in rockstar games, would be good to have on my CV/Folio experience!
You are right! i mean its now possible to scan rocks etc so iam pretty sure studios will end up doing that for there models along with freelancing so they keep all the money they earn from sales 'makes sense obviously' so I guess thats the path to get on eventually lol
@Skyline5gtr! ok
Also If it helps, not a single client of mine even asked if I passed high school.
Long answer is it really depends on the studio. Most don't require schooling, but I have definitely seen studios say they look for people with a diploma or degree when hiring juniors. And as others have said, crossing international borders will be a pain in the ass without one.
Also, don't rule out online classes. Taking those helps show initiative to learn. the number of classes I have on my resume was a huge factor in getting my current job.
I do agree that most places won't care about a degree if you`re good enough. But, the way I see it is this. It's like using Wix for your website. Some like it. Some hate it. If you have the ability to please everyone by not using wix, but artstation instead, why would you risk using wix at all? Please all, or please some. So for people who are just starting out, I usually support the school idea. But I honestly don't think the degree is a requirement in terms of the paper. Companies just like to see you can take instruction, work in a group, follow deadlines. If you graduated, it shows you can do those things. That's what companies are really looking for.
With that said, you aren't totally fresh, and judging by your portfolio, I think the only thing you`ll get out of a degree at this point is a piece of paper and some networking through your classmates. You probably won't learn anything from a brick and mortar school, as they tend to only teach you the tools, which you clearly know. You`d be better off taking some online classes, learn from pros in the industry, really hone your skills, network a bit, and add something relevant to your resume.
The best way I can think of landing a job is like building a cake.
Cake: Portfolio
Frosting: Professional references & Networking
Sprinkles: Fine Arts Degree
You don't always need sprinkles to have a good cake, but sometimes people like that sort of thing. I feel like at the end of the day if your artwork is solid and you're building connections that will go much further than a degree.
Illustrator Noah Bradley wrote an article about going to art school, and i think it sums things up perfectly: https://medium.com/i-m-h-o/dont-go-to-art-school-138c5efd45e9
But, if you're looking to level up your skills. There are plenty of online courses and schools now taught by professional artists. Good luck and keep pushing forward!