Looking for a mentor
polycounter lvl 8
Greetings all,
this might be a long post, I'll try to watch it though
When it comes to game art and 3D I was unfortunately very late to the party. It wasn't until about 3 years ago that I discovered the craft and instantly fell in love with it. I was already almost 32, alas
I got a good job with a good salary, and it's too late to even think about becoming profesionnal, I know that - nonetheless, I still hope to be able to make profesionnal quality game assets at some point in the future, just because... I feel complete when I make 3D art. That may sound super cheesy, but it's really the way it makes me feel. There's no better way to spend your time, in my opinion.
So those past three years, that I've come to look back to and think about as " the CG quest", I spent all of my free time learning the ropes, diving right in, not picking any specialty - modeling, texturing, sculpting, level design, lighting, hell even programming these days - I like it all equally as long as it's game related. I read a ridiculous amount of books, tutorials, watched hundreds of hours of videos, took some CG society classes, etc. And of course I practice at least 3 hours a day, much much more during week-ends.
But for all my work, I still don't feel like I' m ready to show anything yet, and I have the feeling I'm drawning in all the tools and techniques I'm trying to learn. I know you might be telling me to just focus on *something*, but as my primary goals is to make entire environments all by myself, it's a tough choice.
I feel what I'm lacking is proper guidance, because I am self-taught and while there's never been more free information online, there's also a lot of *contradictory* information. For each Perna post telling you about the black magic of Proboolean in Max, you'll find another arguing the benefits of hard surface modeling in Zbrush (just a random example). In fact, it's the reason I've joined some CG Society classes, but as far as personnal support goes, it really was a disappointment. Most of those guys provide project-based courses and there's no way to stray away from the model or technique being discussed.
I believe in aprencticeship and master/disciple relationship in general, but no matter how hard I look, it doesn't seem like I can find someone that could help me get to the next level. Some of you might have been stuck in such a phase at some point, I am looking for some advices, or possibly someone willing to help me directly. I would definitely be willing to pay a consequent monthly fee for mentorship, for instance.
Thoughts?
this might be a long post, I'll try to watch it though
When it comes to game art and 3D I was unfortunately very late to the party. It wasn't until about 3 years ago that I discovered the craft and instantly fell in love with it. I was already almost 32, alas
I got a good job with a good salary, and it's too late to even think about becoming profesionnal, I know that - nonetheless, I still hope to be able to make profesionnal quality game assets at some point in the future, just because... I feel complete when I make 3D art. That may sound super cheesy, but it's really the way it makes me feel. There's no better way to spend your time, in my opinion.
So those past three years, that I've come to look back to and think about as " the CG quest", I spent all of my free time learning the ropes, diving right in, not picking any specialty - modeling, texturing, sculpting, level design, lighting, hell even programming these days - I like it all equally as long as it's game related. I read a ridiculous amount of books, tutorials, watched hundreds of hours of videos, took some CG society classes, etc. And of course I practice at least 3 hours a day, much much more during week-ends.
But for all my work, I still don't feel like I' m ready to show anything yet, and I have the feeling I'm drawning in all the tools and techniques I'm trying to learn. I know you might be telling me to just focus on *something*, but as my primary goals is to make entire environments all by myself, it's a tough choice.
I feel what I'm lacking is proper guidance, because I am self-taught and while there's never been more free information online, there's also a lot of *contradictory* information. For each Perna post telling you about the black magic of Proboolean in Max, you'll find another arguing the benefits of hard surface modeling in Zbrush (just a random example). In fact, it's the reason I've joined some CG Society classes, but as far as personnal support goes, it really was a disappointment. Most of those guys provide project-based courses and there's no way to stray away from the model or technique being discussed.
I believe in aprencticeship and master/disciple relationship in general, but no matter how hard I look, it doesn't seem like I can find someone that could help me get to the next level. Some of you might have been stuck in such a phase at some point, I am looking for some advices, or possibly someone willing to help me directly. I would definitely be willing to pay a consequent monthly fee for mentorship, for instance.
Thoughts?
Replies
If you don't have many artist friends, you can start by adding me on Skype. I'm not online that often, but you can always send me a link or two and get I'll give you feedback when I can.
mhatami at hotmail.com
https://vimeo.com/85040589
Keep working. Set yourself a realistic project. Try to finish it, that's very important. Don't go for anything too grand or too huge. Get it done and post here for feedback. You want people to point out your mistake. Don't waste your energy defending your work, instead spend it on the next piece keeping all the feedback you've got in mind.
Good luck. I'm heading down the same road myself. And I'm almost 36.
And it's never too late. I know a few concept artist who started at almost 40 years old.
@ Sam, no, I don't. I am somewhat of a lurker and admirer of all the awesome work I see here, I guess I never had the opportunity to hook up with real artists, and if by chance I got involved in a thread with some, I felt too humble to ask anything meaningful. SO your offer is very generous, and I accept! I should say though that I don't see any issue at all with paying money for guidance, it's true that free help is awesome, but time is a commodity so if someone is helping me on my quest, I just feel the least I can do is compensate him/her for it.
@Direwolf, yes, I did see that thread actually, and I watched all of the videos linked by Dustin
I am not a Facebook user
Yes, environment is what I'm after - terrain, vegetation, props, architecture. I consider myself almost ready for noob challenges - just waiting for a good concept to pop up, I suppose.
I'm self taught. I learned pretty much everything I know about 3D art and game production right here on Polycount. Prior to working in the Game Industry, I worked as a photographer & photo-retoucher for many years.
I never went to college or any kind of art-school.
I'd hardly say you're too late.
Good concept or not, do a noob challenge. Post your work. Get crits, internalize good ones, be patient with poor ones, learn to tell the difference. Wash, rinse, repeat x100.
I have a lot of respect for those who achieved self-education all by themselves just looking at Polycount. As I was saying earlier, there is a lot of contradictory information being passed on even within Polycount so to get past the phase I'm at right now you must know how to sail and keep a heading without a compass, so to speak. That's my main issue, I can never decide who's right and who's wrong so I keep switching approach and I end up not finishing 80% of what I start because I start from scratch 5 times or more sometimes.
But you are right, I got to bite the bullet and enter the frey. I'll give the next noob challenge a shot. Thanks for
those encouraging words.
Do the challenge anyway. July starting soon. Good time to start as any.
-- FB groups --
https://www.facebook.com/groups/VergeofEpic/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/ArtistsoldNnew/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/tenthousandhours/
and more. Some are concept artists, some are character artists, and some are envo/hardsurface artists.
I also FB add-friend some artists who will give me comments when I post arts on my wall.
Slosh: looking, looking!
Dustin: Kurt is a freaking rockstar -.- definitely not worthy of speaking to him yet. But I'm saving the link, it's precisely this kind of service I am looking for. Thank you very much for pointing this out to me
Prove to them that not only are you not a complete beginner (ie: show them your portfolio), explain your goals, explain why you think they can help you, and suggest a project you can both work on in tandem.
In tandem meaning: you both make something similar, but you don't work together on the same project. Or maybe even ask if they'd be willing to oversee you on a project you're working on and they can give you some in-depth feedback or advice maybe twice or three times a week.
I did this a few years ago and it resulted in Hazardous running his Create a Girl course (which was awesome). And i'm not saying this will work, it may not happen for you, it may not get you any responses (4 of the 6 people i messaged never even replied). But it could.
I strongly believe polycount is full of amazing talents who have a lot to give and would actually love the opportunity to do so. But the one thing they all have in common is lack of time. So you need to prove that it's worth their time spending it with you, first and foremost.
yeah, I wish I could work the nerve to do something like this at some point ^^; Right now it feels like it might take a decade or so before I muster enough self-confidence. Maybe after a few noob challenges when I don't take a total beating for what I post!
Another option is to hire a pro for consultation time. Mentorship implies a long term arrangement. Consultation, maybe you only have to pay an hour or two to get a pro to give you a couple rounds of porfolio critique to spot your errors, identify knowledge gaps, help you polish up your folio. Advantage over paying versus relying on forum feedback? You could pick somebody who doesn't go to polycount often, for example. Or you can meet somebody locally. Maybe, you can have a session over hangouts or skype so you can trade art and feedback in real time.
I've paid a Bioware concept artist $200 for private lessons (this was before gumroads, twitter, etc.) and I did benefit tremendously from my investment. My first first drawing gig after those lessons totalled in $12K in revenue.
You could go hardcore self teaching and all but if you plateau, just spinning your wheels, and your job applications are all coming back as rejects perhaps it's an oppotune time to consider hiring a coach.
I am not sure to understand what you mean here - sure enough if you are looking for advice you might as well learn from the best ! And if you settle for anything less, then you might end up receiving outdated information ... which is precisely what you say you want to avoid in the first place
Also I feel like you need to clearly make the distinction between design work (the art part) and execution work (the technical part). One is very often mistaken for another, and learning one does nothing to teach you the other. No Introduction to Zbrush class will ever teach you anatomy.
Put differently : I have seen very strong 2D artists with zero prior 3D experience produce interesting results out of Maya and Zbrush after just a few hours of explanation on how the programs work, because they had an already developped visual sense coming from years of artistic practice. Now of course none of the models were production ready, but that's hardly relevant... And at the other end of the spectrum, even after years of tinkering with 3D apps, an eager person might still produce below average results because of a lack of art fundamentals. I hope this makes sense !
All that being said, tackling online art challenges is definitely a good idea as it will force you to get things done in a timely manner. Furthermore, I would suggest you to try to produce pieces of game art roughly following the specifications of a game that you already have a fondness for. It will force you to work with both technical limitations and a precise, established art style, thus killing two birds with one stone. And the lower the technical specs (old classic games, mobile, MMOs) the faster your turnaround will be - meaning faster progress.
Good luck !
Pior: To place an analogy here, think of a hardcore football fan that is training seriously to maybe play someday profesionally in a very small regional team, and you're suggesting that said guy go talk to Ronaldo for guidance
Now for your points on trad art, if you're suggesting I should learn to draw, it's not going to happen
To go back to the main point : it's not so much about "knowing how to draw" but rather about identifying where you want to go and what is the most efficient way to get there (bearing in mind that "efficient" does not mean "easy"
http://www.zbrushcentral.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=318822
It might look like he just fired up Zbrush and got this done "out of nowhere" ; but if you dig a little further, it's pretty obvious that he has been having such designs on his mind for a while, testing them out relentlessly beforehand, probably for years : (image seems to need a refresh to show up)
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3S7uwh7n1w0/UBuj4GyX3_I/AAAAAAAAA0A/qIwUhLtQ2ZY/s1600/sketchbook_priests.jpg
I guess all I am saying is that the most efficient way to get somewhere is not always the most obvious. 3D art is fun but also quite tiring and finnicky, so, anything that can be done beforehand to lock in a design amounts to huge amount of time saved while working on the execution phase. In other words, spending time on preparation and design is always beneficial, even if it means doing crude doodles. For instance, deciding on the curve to give to a support arch of a castle will always be faster in 2D than in 3D, and that's something anyone can do ... without exception
I hope this makes sense ! And don't hesitate to point us to precise examples of things similar to what you want to achieve, so that we can give you pointers on how to get there as efficiently as possible.
Then I really have to quote the Order 1886, it's brilliantly done, and RAD enviro team is kicking ass.
And I should mention that I have a passion for modularity. I made a few sets myself for modern architecture as training and I really enjoyed it. My reference (dare I say Guru) on this topic is Tor Frick, no need to present his stuff.
Finally, I really like post-apocalyptic themes especially when it's the opportunity to see ruined architecture overtaken by vegetation like in The Last of Us (N-Dog rules!).