Whats the verdict?: Zmodeler in production.

artquest

I came across this video and it got me thinking...

[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvoF6oJUWhc[/ame].


Now that zbrush 4R7 has been out for a bit and people are using zmodeler more. What say you polycount? Worthwhile investment for production or purely a concept stage tool?



I've sorta been wanting to dive in and learn to use it but a few of us at work are skeptical to start using it in a vfx pipeline. Zbrush doesn't play well with other software to begin with but some of the tools look like they could really save a lot of time.

Muzzoid

No idea about this.

BUT WHY IS THE DEMO VIDEO SPINNING AND FLASHING. is that supposed to make it look cooler ._.?

artquest

Muzz wrote: »

No idea about this.

BUT WHY IS THE DEMO VIDEO SPINNING AND FLASHING. is that supposed to make it look cooler ._.?

It's the default way that zbrush records the history steps. Quite annoying actually but it's easier to make a timelapse from the history instead of installing capture software to record while you work..

Also found another similar vid:

[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZz-WCShb7w[/ame]

DireWolf

That's a real bad-ass sword.

lefix

DireWolf wrote: »

That's a real bad-ass sword.

I would hate baking that sword

Ged

I found the lack of standard transform and rotate and scale tools like in maya max and every other modelling app made it feel quite wierd to model anything really specific or follow a concept. If you have a kind of rough idea of what you want but dont have to be too exact or follow a concept then you could probably bash something out pretty quick. Thats just my impression

thomasp

i find that the problem with all the more artsy toolsets actually. good for freeform work, but in production you want to be able to model stuff specific to concepts, scale, exact alignments, reuse existing assets and avoid time consuming retopo wherever you can.

for me, zbrush definitely has it's place but it can not be the central bit of a pipeline due to it's design. it does offer some great shortcuts for work that does not have to be particularly reusable or following strict technical guidelines though.

WarrenM

My impression is that right now it sits as a neat demo feature and a handy tool to save a round trip or two back to your modeling app. Modeling apps aren't shaking in their boots quite yet.

Neox

artquest wrote: »

It's the default way that zbrush records the history steps. Quite annoying actually but it's easier to make a timelapse from the history instead of installing capture software to record while you work..

zbrush has a built in timelapse function and even a full recording function since years, no need to use any external solution for that

beefaroni

I tried it out but wasn't excited by the features. Spacebar + selecting what you want to do is a bit annoying.

I prefer Max with a tablet and a shit load of hotkeys.

Justin Meisse

Yup, I used it for all the hard surface stuff in my Frankenstein mesh. Maybe modeling an entire hard surface model is crazy but Zbrush is used by a lot of people, I could imagine a concept artist who uses Zbrush doesn't also have a $1,000+ modeling app as well.

lotet

Its pretty good for simple stuff, I hated having to tab out to max just to build some simple geometry, export and then import again just for something stupid like a cylinder with chamfered edges. or having to weld a funky vert or delete an edge loop.

I Use it a lot, but its not replacing my box modeling anytime soon.

Greg DAlessandro

Is there any features in Zbrush/Zmodeler for precise work based on concepts/correct size to the engine of a game? Similar to working in Maya/Max.

2 examples:
- Orthographic views with image plane functionality to match concepts.
- grid settings to match engine units

Joopson

I wish zbrush didn't block my toolbar.... That's my only complaint about the UI.

As for zModeler, I used it once, thought it was cool, but haven't had the need to delve further.

thomasp

ah yes, hidden start menu and taskbar is so annoying. i do not remember it doing that in 4R4 and older. is that perhaps some recently introduced preference?

Joopson

If I remember correctly, it's been doing it all along; at least since I started using it, with version 2.

Fomori

Joopson wrote: »

I wish zbrush didn't block my toolbar.... That's my only complaint about the UI.

You can resize the app to show your toolbar.

As for Zmodeller. Haven't had any reason to use it yet. As was said, for concept artists that don't use polygon modelling software it might be handy though.

Joopson

Fomori wrote: »

You can resize the app to show your toolbar.

I used to, but it's annoying fiddling with it every time I use zbrush. Is there a reason for them to take over the whole screen the way they do? Or is it just a design choice?

Neox

i think zbrush is the reason why i have my taskbar on the second monitor, can't remember it, but it would make sense

thomasp

i think that's why i never had it do that throughout the years - i was running Z in a window. had to rebuild my prefs for 4R6 and lost that. it must have saved with the preferences.

Thane-

Great thread.

If Zbrush isn't ready to do so yet, what does it need to replace Max/Maya/Modo/etc?


Anyone that thinks it could replace other apps in the next update or two and be just as efficient?

Matt Fagan

ZModeler I'm sure is darn powerful. But my god, that transpose tool has to GO!

I will not use ZModeler for anything until whatstheowner of pixologic gives up his stubborn pride and actually lends ZBrush to make ends meet with some traditional modeling sense. Like a 3 axis transform tool (translate, rotate, scale) for starts.

As a matter of fact, I really don't get why ZModeler doesn't have its own hub set like "Paintstop" inside ZBrush does.

almighty_gir

There's a simple reason that there are no 3d transform tools in zbrush.

Because you're never working in 3d. You're always working in 2d space and projecting the results onto the mesh, always. If they changed this, it would have all the same performance issues as Mudbox.

mariomanzanares

ZModeler is not exactly precise, and it's definitely not traditional, so it will be awkward for the first time and probably holdschoolers won't find some functions they use on a regular basis. That said, it's very powerful and plenty of "new" features for people who started learning 3D through Zbrush (for whom max and maya are dinosaurs with weird UI).

I just love trying new software, so I learned ZModeler (easy to learn, hard to master) and you can follow a concept, but it's not Maya by any means. For instance, making precise cuts inside already-created polygons is tedious as hell.

This flamethrower (made for a Polycount noob challenge) was made entirely using ZModeler and a bit of organic sculpting:



So in a nutshell, it will save me a lot of trips to Maya and it will open some doors for young modelers accustomed to use ZBrush only.

Matt Fagan

almighty_gir wrote: »

There's a simple reason that there are no 3d transform tools in zbrush.

Because you're never working in 3d. You're always working in 2d space and projecting the results onto the mesh, always. If they changed this, it would have all the same performance issues as Mudbox.

I don't know what stirs that to thought, as that sounds rather opinionated. My personal remarks about the owner/Architect of ZBrush. Is because that's what someone from my workplace whom knows him has heard him actually say when it was requested. Which is that "He will not ever do it, only because he wants ZBrush to be different".

To this knowledge, I find Pixologic great for treading into territory where they add things to. But the transpose tools is just too problematic to sufficiently create something with ZModeler in very little time. Considering Transpose is not points/edge friendly.

almighty_gir

okay, look man i was just giving you an accurate technical restriction as to why there is no true 3d transformation tool.

take that whatever way you like, it was a barebones fact, not an opinion.

Joopson

Couldn't they fake it, the same way they're faking 3D, though?

Matt Fagan

almighty_gir wrote: »

okay, look man i was just giving you an accurate technical restriction as to why there is no true 3d transformation tool.

take that whatever way you like, it was a barebones fact, not an opinion.

It's Okay, take that whatever way you like, it was just a normal person responding unemotionally towards your statements, lol

lorenzo_di_pietro

Joopson wrote: »

I used to, but it's annoying fiddling with it every time I use zbrush. Is there a reason for them to take over the whole screen the way they do? Or is it just a design choice?

I'm pretty sure that you can save permanently the new size of the interface if you go in the menu bar, "preferences", "config" and press the button "store config".

Aabel

Zmodeler is turning out to be very useful, much more useful than I thought it would be. What it adds to polygroup management alone is worth learning to use it.

Ged

Aabel wrote: »

Zmodeler is turning out to be very useful, much more useful than I thought it would be. What it adds to polygroup management alone is worth learning to use it.

what do you mean about polygroup management?

Aabel

Ged wrote: »

what do you mean about polygroup management?

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51Dj9PYi88s[/ame]



It makes polygrouping an easier task than it was in earlier versions.