Assassin's Creed Syndicate
polycounter lvl 9
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4QlIyK4aVA[/ame]
Is it normal I haven't seen any thread talking about this here? I've searched and didn't find anything.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4QlIyK4aVA[/ame]Is it normal I haven't seen any thread talking about this here? I've searched and didn't find anything.
Replies
Unfortunately this series have become like ''Call of Duty'' and kinda lost it's prestige.
Also, lots of visual glitches here and here..What's the point in showing an alpha footage full of bugs..especially after Unity controversy?
But Syndicate and Unity are by different development teams, so the development of this isn't taking away at all from fixes/whatever for Unity.
I really feel sorry for the awesome art teams behind these games. They deserve better.
Interesting!
I am curious why we deserve(d) better? (Full disclosure: I was one of the art leads for AC Unity).
For most artists I know who worked on the game, its pretty unanimous it was the best looking game we've worked on, and, to what I know, no one was creatively oppressed. I wouldn't be surprised to hear if the artists who worked on AC Unity would have enjoyed working on Syndicate as well.
So please, do tell!
While I do not personally hold this opinion, I've heard more than a handful of folks I know first hand (most of them also in the industry) describe their impression that from the outside, the series is appearing to gradually sink towards being a marketing plan with a game slapped together, rather than good games with marketing - something that many of them personally have had bad experiences with on both sides of the dev / audience line.
Yearly releases and multiple, separate development teams involved to hit that pace is frequently an indicator of executives, finance, and marketing bigwigs making decisions they should be more hands-off about (see: CoD, MoH, FIFA, Madden, etc), and that combined with the impression that Unity was rushed and overpromised is starting to worry a lot of fans.
Plus there are multiple concurrent titles getting sprayed out with a hose now. Rogue was released on the exact same day as Unity despite being a rather critical narrative link between Black Flag, III, and Unity, then there was Chronicles, and Liberation HD - which was also important for everyone who never bought a Vita (most of us).
These are things other people have said to me discussing the franchise (I'm a huge fan, personally).
Why would you feel bad for them? AC unity looked solid and looking at several portfolios it seems like those guys had alot of fun working on the project.
Also seeing as how Ubisoft has several properties im sure the Artists are able to switch art styles and Ip's every couple years so they dont go through IP burnout.
Look At call of duty even if those games play the same the art from Call of duty 1 to advanced warfare have drastically changed.
I am confused... I don't understand when you said 'the artists deserve better'.
same here!
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Also, I gotta say that I am confused on the "artist deserve better" comment too
That I could see, I usually buy every assassins creed game (got the last two at launch) but even I passed up on unity simply cause I heard of how unstable it was on PC.
Wonder if that's fixed. Personally, I wish iterations of games strived for perfection rather than ambition first.
They started to look like fancy lords in their fancy dress, with the element from original design add on top just so the audience know it's the guy...
He think it's pretty clear. He's not criticizing the art direction, the art execution nor the art creativity AT ALL but the game design's and concept choices.
Every reviews praised the high quality visuals for Unity and we all know you guys outdid yourselves as some people on some forums even called it : The first real next-gen game. Especially since there were no real downgrades here.
What's he criticizing is that he's disappointed to see that all the potential and effort of the VISUAL creation team is hindered by unpolished and repetitive game design's choices, weird AI and odd bugs, backwards combat mechanic and such.
Maybe these words sounds harsh, but MYSELF, from my GAMER point of view (not artist en devenir), I feel like the programming and the game design team don't put as much effort as they should to really extend the push the series needs, no negative critic should be said for the art team as you guys did your job and even more.
It's ''The Order'' all over again.
I feel like each episodes after episodes, the visuals and the graphics gets upgraded but the rest , with the exceptions of a few new (often broken) features stays behind.
A game is not just the visuals, the core of it, whther we like it or not relies on the gameplay (or else The Order, Crysis 3,Ryse would've been insta-successes).
Just like movies, that have these awesome VFX works, obliging you to applaud the art diretion and the VFX team but to bash the writer because you simply feel he didn't even try to bring something really new to the table.
To even strengthen my point, I'll add something which will make you understand my point.
I won't say names but I've spoken with an artist (I've graduated in the same school as him) that has been working on the series for a few years and told me '' It's kinda the same BASE for every episodes''.
I don't exactly know how your engine work, I'm not sure if you guys still use AnvilNext for the next-gen episodes but anyway, I've noticed 4 templates for the series.
You usually recognize a new template (sample or starting point) because, the shading, the lighting, the art style is defferent (and you actually rework on the in-game animations).
These templates are only applied to the logic and game design behind the game and NOT on the art team since on each episode, new props, textures, characters, buildings,etc. are created.
-Assassin's Creed, the first :Fresh, new, never seen before, outstanding visuals, repetitive missions and some odd gameplays issues there and there but since the concept is totally new and refreshing, we forgive all of your mistakes.
AC, the first has it's own template.
AC 2: Once again. Most of the mistakes from the first episode have been corrected and the game really feels solid. Once again, the visuals are simply majestic, the plot is interestin + let's make a standing ovation for the work of Jesper's Kyd.
This is the second template (or sample).
That same template (sample, game design pattern) has been re-sued and recycled for both Brotherhood AND Revelations.:(
Thing is: The art team created two new cities, with new props, characters, technical achievements and etc. so you can't really blame them here.
But since the game used the exact same game design pattern as AC 2, you feel like the game design and the programming team went lazy.
Then came AC 3. The third template.
Full of bugs....BUT for me they were all forgiveable since EVERTHING had been reworked on not just the visuals.
New gameplay mechanic, freshly made combat system, new parkour features, NEW ANIMATIONS (that's what I look/judge first
Then AC IV came and even though, you used the same template as AC 3, there were enough game play iterations to make it feel fresh and
Then came Rogue which featured a new environment ( art team did it's job) but everything else felt like a Black Flag copy-paste ( the game design team did not do it's part).
For Unity, it's the same scenario that happened to AC 3, it was buggy as hell at first but that's normal since the core gampleay has been changed; new groundbreaking visuals, new animations,new combat mechanic,etc.
Now that I look at Syndicate, it's the same thing; the art team did it's job but the game designers and the programmers...err..
I know it's probably a lot harder to program new AI, new combat systems, new parkour system,etc. than to model a new playground (that's the impression I have though), it's no excuse.
Once again for syndicate, critics are going to praise the visuals and the beautiful representation of Victorian London (nice job to you guys) buuut they will obviously point their fingers at blatant poor game design choices.
Which is why he said '' you deserve better''.
The art team behind Crysis, The Order, etc. did deserve better.
I probably risk future employments opportunity saying stuff like that but..oh well..it's out now.
Maybe I'm also just simply ignorant on the matter...
EDIT: Someone better reply, I did not write all that for nothing.:poly121:
for me, this comment is a bit weird. it draws a clear line between the being proud of a GAME you worked on, and being proud of ART for a game you worked on.
and i have seen this implied many times on this site. like, "i loved working on "visually impressive, but lacking gameplay- title" it was a blast and im so proud of it!"
of course i get that this is a gameART forum, and thus its the focus for most of the discussions, but it still strikes me as odd. its my impression that we pride ourselves with our passion for games, not solely game art. many could get better stability and pay in different fields but still choose games. and i very rarely see a job posting without the "must be a avid gamer" line.
so but somehow its like its forbidden to say, that we care about the game experience as a whole. we have an artdump from a new fancy next gen title, that have gotten really bad critic for the gameplay and everyone is like "OMG amazing work, looks soo good"etc. but the elephant in the room still is "didnt you cry when you saw what the horrible gameplay did to your models?"
of course i get that you cant trash talk the people you worked with for 5+ years on a huge project, even if they are the programmers responisble for a shitty gameplay.
but its also weird to step out and defend it, like "hey you cant critize this, i worked with the art and it was amazing!"
its a weird situation is it not? we have a game realesed almost unplayable, riddled with bugs, and when we talk about it here, criticing it, the artists who worked at it seems so compelled to defend it. its like some kind of loyalty towards the studio or somehing. it makes the discussions dumb, and they shouldnt need to do that, noone thinks the art team did a bad job if the gameplay sucked.
not trying to offend, and not amaing this towards anyone perticular, its just a phenomena ive seen around here, that is bothering me.
All trades and employment discourage "disparaging" the works of others in the same trade or industry.
There's really nothing to be gained as an artist by telling them what you think of their game. You can only lose a potential contract or give the impression that you aren't a "team player". If they didn't ask for a critique, I personally wouldn't bother posting about it.
That energy can be put into working on your own game or something cool in your own life. :poly124:
Ya, I don't understand most of these comments..
1. The artists had the opportunity to create beautiful, cutting edge art. If there happen to be layoffs, the artists are left with a beautiful portfolio of work.
2. Since the AC series is yearly at this point. I'm guessing this means little work was thrown away compared to projects that are cancelled after years of work.
3. The ability to switch art styles every two years.
We're making art, we're artists. I'd rather work on a game with amazing art and shitty gameplay than the other way around.
I find this interesting because I feel the exact opposite. If I had to choose I think I would prefer to work on a game that I think has good gameplay even if it's not a great looker. Likewise, I would identify myself as a game developer first and an artist second.
I think that might be the root of misunderstandings that seem to pop up here sometimes. Some artists seem to be fully satisfied with making the best art they can, while others can feel pretty bummed if the game they work on isn't up to their standard.
Art style, I guess.
For the most part I agree with this. Im not a designer or a programmer (Speaking of which, could we stop knocking programmers for all gameplay issues?), should the worst happen my art would get me the next job not how much fun a game was.
HOWEVER... If you are on a small team, I would definitely be concerned with gameply and art as you will most likely have more of an impact in the final product. In that case its everyone's responsibility.
On a AAA title with like 10-12 designers who eat sleep and breathe design and have done so for years it's better left to them, just like the art is better left to the art team.
honest question; why work in the game industry then, which is infamous for relative low pay, massive chrunches and overall job instability instead of say, vfx for movies, illustration for books or comic art?
In game art, it's more important to deliver information clearly than to just make a pretty picture. Game art has a huge impact on gameplay, for example: how you light a corner in a racing game will affect the player's reaction time and thus have an effect on how often they crash. Some more common examples are path lighting and drawing the player's attention to game objectives using contrast.
I'm pretty sure the VFX industry is even worse...
Exactly what I was trying to get across.
@stickadtroja - Are you sure about that? I'm not sure that's an absolute..
Anyways, the game does look pretty cool. It's interesting how wide the main streets are for the cart gameplay. I wonder how large of a role that will play (kind of like the ships in black flag).
Life After Pi.
Cough cough.
Hey there Adam,
I have nothing but the utmost respect for the art of the assasin's creed games. This is what my comment was implying. My problem with the AC games lay not with the art but with the gameplay and story.
The user named "Blond" captured the meaning of my comment pretty well. I will not quote him directly due to the post being extremely long but if you are interested you can read it on the first page.
It all felt like a big waste in many parts tho due to the gameplay or lack therof in so many areas. The Ubi open world formula just plain sucks. All these awesome environment pieces and 90% is used only to collect thousand random crap or do the same kind of event over and over and over again. Thers bristling shops and markets everywhere yet i purchase most stuff from the menu to give another example.
It's clear that Ubi is nailing the art part. The attention to detail is astonishing. I just wish the same attention to detail would go into crafting the story and gameplay.
But is still enjoy making game art, I love the limitations and thinking outside the box for curtain problems. It keeps it interesting and fresh and there is not a job in the world I would switch with.
I am a huge fan of AC series. Not a big fan of a future parts of the game. I love AC one when it first came out with open world and innovative parkouring. It was the first game in series and has a special place in my heart. Than came AC2 which is still my favorite game in the series. Black Flag was amazing because of the pirate theme and it was not even a proper AC game more like a fresh take on the pirates. I avoided ACU because of all the negative press on how buggy it was and didn't ran well. Maybe I should try it now.
I wasn't really impressed with Assassin's Creed Syndicate graphically it looks nice and I love the London setting, but gameplay parts where meh to me. Combat still feels the same you fight one guy the other one watches how you kick his ass. I wish they would evolve a lot more in terms of gameplay. Carriage run looked fun though.
I think AC should rest a bit to get some fresh eyes on it, I am just not that excited anymore for the series.
I think they should start taking Nintendo's game as examples.
Basically, instead of adding more and more little unpolsiehd stuff over episodes, they should really start re-modeling the GROUND base of their game to make it work.
To think we have almost 10 AC episodes now and the parkour which has been there since the first episodes still gives problems...
Like after so many games, the basic exploration gameplay has so many bugs, doesn't properly work, the character sometimes jumps where you don't want to..man this is unbelievable.
Even InFamous had better solid parkour since the first game and climbing gameplay and it's not even focused on that
Does anyone know of a little break down, would love to know more about it's creation.
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"doesnt anything like the e3 demo!" etc etc/