The best software and way to create a car,

D4N005H

Hello.

I was told to create more than 10 cars from scratch! and I know a bit about 3DSMax, but I have never used it for creating cars. I use it for making terrains, houses and followers and stuff like that also I am not professional in modelling.

I heard there are better software for modelling car, I need to model cars for game and not animation. But what are those software and are they really better than 3DS Max?

If you suggested any software for doing so (even 3DS Max), would you show me a recommended and fast way to make 3D cars with the software?

Thanks in advance.

passerby

Just pick a tool you are comfortable with and get to work. Dosnt matter if its Max, Maya, Modo or even blender. You still have to do the work and put your in effort in no matter what.

DireWolf

No need to learn a new software to make cars. All of them can do it, and MAX is more than powerful enough.

Here's a MAX car modeler to get you inspired.
https://develterematthias.wordpress.com/

D4N005H

Thanks for helping, 3DS Max is my choice.

I googled "how to make cars in 3DS Max". I found there are several ways to do it. For example I saw a video which was about creating cars in 3DS Max with "Nurbs" technology and I saw an other one with "Polygon" technique and so on. But I don't want to waste my time at all, So I am asking you which way is the fastest and recommended way for creating cars with the software for games.

DireWolf

Go with polygon and search how to do a quick smooth preview with Turbosmooth.

LaurentiuN

I hope i`m not getting banned for this and if i`m not allowed please remove the post....but you should check http://www.smcars.net/ ...there are alot of tutorials in the making of cars....

D4N005H

Thanks for replies.
@DireWolf You mean modelling 3D cars for games with "Polygon" method is the recommended one?

I was heard "NURBS" would result better looking cars in games, is this true?

Praglik

D4N005H wrote: »

Thanks for replies.
@DireWolf You mean modelling 3D cars for games with "Polygon" method is the recommended one?

I was heard "NURBS" would result better looking cars in games, is this true?

As there is no way currently to render NURBS as-it in games... Polygon is your choice!
In the end in absolutely any game engine out there, polygons are rendered.

D4N005H

Thanks for your reply.

DevMatt

Hey thanks DireWolf for the link againhahah
I would say use Max IF you wanna get an expert - why, Subd in Max is not forgiving, you have to do things in a perfect way , to make it look nice and that is a good practice
So to learn Highpoly modelling I would advice Max
But if you wanna knock out cars everyday, use MODO, there SUBD is SUPER forgiving - triangles/smoothing errors

D4N005H

Awesome, Do you have any experiences with MODO? @DevMatt

WarrenM

I've never heard that about MODO ... I use it every day and I haven't noticed the subd being more "forgiving". Subd is subd, it's a standard algorithm - especially if you use catmull-clark.

DevMatt

Yes I do - I use it at the office
I am faster in Max but I have to work more carefully, so it balances eachother out

SonicBlue

WarrenM wrote: »

I've never heard that about MODO ... I use it every day and I haven't noticed the subd being more "forgiving". Subd is subd, it's a standard algorithm - especially if you use catmull-clark.

And that's the point, 3ds Max doesn't use Catmull-Clark, it uses NURMS

Otherwise you would be able to use edge creasing with TurboSmooth modifiers.

WarrenM

I guess my point is that if I make the same mistakes in MODO, Max, whatever I see the same artifacts.

SonicBlue

This depends on how the algorithm interpreters the mesh, different algorithm, different results.

Simple example:

Unsubdivided mesh



Catmull-Clark (N-Gons) - Cinema 4D Default



Catmull-Clark

D4N005H

Well, to me, although the Catmull-Clark produces less polygons but is not good, look at the shape in the last post here, it's not symmetric, While "Catmull-Clark (N-Gons) - Cinema 4D Default" is symmetric so it's maybe way better (Is it?) . Does it mean that Cinema 4D is better than the others?

And according to what I've read, 3DsMax uses something like Catmull-Clark,too. look at this quote from HERE .

An example is the MeshSmooth modifier in 3ds max 4 which, when in Classic mode, appears to use a variation of the Doo-Sabin scheme, producing three- and four-sided facets. It may be switched from Classic to Quad Output, and then generates something closer to the Catmull-Clark scheme.

Guys I'm puzzled... MODO or MAX or something else? I am not sure which is good for creating car models for games fast by an inexperienced guy.

passerby

it isnt the software that is going to hold you back, but your own time and skill, so just choose and get to work on it.

SonicBlue

D4N005H wrote: »

Well, to me, although the Catmull-Clark produces less polygons but is not good, look at the shape in the last post here, it's not symmetric, While "Catmull-Clark (N-Gons) - Cinema 4D Default" is symmetric so it's maybe way better (Is it?) . Does it mean that Cinema 4D is better than the others?

And according to what I've read, 3DsMax uses something like Catmull-Clark,too. look at this quote from HERE .
Guys I'm puzzled... MODO or MAX or something else? I am not sure which is good for creating car models for games fast by an inexperienced guy.

That was only to show two different algorithms inside the same application, even if they are Catmull-Clark based, for example XSI Catmull-Cark gives you the same result as Cinema 4D. I was trying to see in Maya, since it have Catmull-Clark and OpenSubDiv, but it crashed. Now I checked, and it has the same topology as Cinema 4D N-Gons, the only difference is that Maya and XSI keeps the border edges (open) straight, don't know why though.

In the end, use whatever you like, the best looking cars (and Hard Surface in general) I saw were made in 3ds Max, this doesn't mean that you can't make them in any other application.

I don't use Max, so I can't try with it, but I suspect that the result may be very similar to what Cinema 4D outputs when in the second mode, that's why is less forgiving.

For completeness, Blender does the same thing as Cinema 4D Catmull-Clark (N-gons) with rounded edges too.

CompanionCube

so many of you are just confusing the OP. OP knows Max, it can all be done in Max.

CandyStripes05

you CAN use nurbs - I highly recommend it, quick and painless way to get a solid jump start at a smooth car model. Once the block out is done you can convert it to polygons and further break it apart for the fine detail

D4N005H

Reading all of your posts here and also some researches with Google, I finally found some result which may help me and also the other people who want to know which software is the best one for creating cars for games in the fastest way possible.

Here's the highlights of my researches:

A user says that:

However modo is much better for car modelling than LW since modo supports sub-d n-gons (you can live without them but they make modelling so much easier).

in HERE.

So "sub-d n-gons" is the exact thing that SonicBlue mentioned it with Cinema4D software.
And also the user continues saying that:

Modo supports edge weights, which allow you to control the tightness of creases without adding extra geometry all over the mesh.

Modo also has a very powerful spline patch tool. Here are some more images of the car I made in modo....

There are probably more features in Modo, but those might be available in Max or the others,too.

So I continued my research and found out that Modo is an awesome software for my needs for sure. And it's great for creating cars with Subd (Polygon) method.

But suddenly I saw Mr.CandyStripes05 recommends using NURBS method, So I extended my research and saw two tutorials.

The first tutorial was about creating cars with Subd:
http://www.tutorialboneyard.com/Pages/3ds_max_car_tutorial.aspx

The second was about NURBS:
http://www.3dtotal.com/index_tutorial_detailed.php?id=1409&catDisplay=$catDisplay&roPos=$roPos&page=1#.VUR3AZP-kb4

And then I saw that some people here argue that 3DsMax's NURBS functionality is limited.
As someone says in HERE that:

With respect to 3DS MAX, its not the program for nurbs. Download Rhino and you will get a fully functional piece of software with about 30 save limits I think. Just dont close down rhino until you finish your model

There are tutorials for rhino on how to make a whole car.. you may be able to follow them slightly in max but it will be a pain because you will experience severe viewport problems (slow, chunky nurbs etc)

Conclusion
By looking at the tutorials that I showed their links here fast, I figured out that modelling with NURBS is easier than Subd, but I have doubt that it is easier (As I heard some people that says working with Subd (Poly) is easier than NURBS). So if working with NURBS is easier, I'll go with Rehino, Otherwise if working with Subd is easier, I'll go with MODO.

According to what I said, I asking you guys - who are experienced and may know how to model cars for games - to help me by telling me which one is less time-consuming: Creating detailed cars with less poly possible with NURBS method or doing so with Subdivision method?

DireWolf

Try not to think too much but instead jump right into doing. You'll find out what works best for you.

Since it's a game, the final result must be polygon. How you get there is entirely up to you.

My personal recommendation is just to go with polygonal modeling. /As I said the end result you're looking for is a polygon, so why not learn about it and get yourself familiar with it.

WarrenM

People have made cars in every modeling package, ever. Just start.

DevMatt

Jup Warren is Right
Something that for helped me a lot, when I was "learning" how to make vehicles
I just started making lowpoly car studies and gave myself a limitation of 2500 tris
And just tried to catch the main characteristics of the vehicle

CandyStripes05

I jump back and forth between nurbs, subd, and polygons when I do a single vehicle

passerby

Just get started mate, simply getting started and pushing your self forward is way way more important than what tools you use.

D4N005H

CandyStripes05 wrote: »

I jump back and forth between nurbs, subd, and polygons when I do a single vehicle

LOL I guess I should hit my head into a wall now!.... Both of them? HOW?

...........................,

After watching lots of tutorials from these key searches for 72 hours:

• How to model a car with NURBS with 3DSMAX
• How to create car in MODO
• How to model a car NURBS Modo
• Create CAR 3D MODEL GAME
• NURBS vs Poly game (this search was not useful,though)
• and so on...

and watching tons of boring repetitive tutorials I found this result:
Go on with what I was using before, 3DSMAX... .

I am creating a car with that software in my spare time with it, I will continue sharing the progress here by sharing screenshots of it.

I am happy now because I don't have to be worry about what software I should use for it anymore. Thanks for your replies,though.

CandyStripes05

here is a few links to another thread where I explained my workflow, feel free to ask if you want a better/further explanation

http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2233041&postcount=8

http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2234372&postcount=13

start of thread: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147504

D4N005H

Thanks man. Thanks a lot. I do need to learn the workflow.

D4N005H

Here's my first try of making a 3D car from scratch ever. It's a Peugeot Persia but since I haven't found a good blueprint, I used a blueprint of Peugeot 405, instead. Any comments appreciated.

D4N005H

I have problem about setting up the blueprints, Top view is scaled, rear view doesn't match front view! Although I made the planes (that later I assigned the blueprints to) have exact the same size of the images.

Eric Chadwick

What is your intended triangle count for the finished car?

D4N005H

Great question because it's vital for me and I should do something not to exceed these numbers:
(I can't calculate triangles but the rules are here in polygon counts)

Maximum possible for cars: 44000 for car exterior + 19000 for interior

Creating characters is not one of my duties for this game,though. Not all the models will have been made by me,though.

Since it's a drivable car in the game, the 3D model should have maximum 59000 polygons (both interior and exterior were calculated). However I want to try to finish it with only 20K-25K polys.

D4N005H

Here are new pictures of my project:


I've made a thread about it, you would go there for more information. Here's the URL address:
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153027