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A25-R Sniper

polycounter lvl 9
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Chase polycounter lvl 9
*UPDATE





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OLD

Hey guys and gals, I've been working hard on this sniper rifle for the game "The Repopulation". Don't worry, it's not under any NDA so I can share the progress. We've given the individuals that backed our kickstarter campaign the chance to submit their own designs for weapons they'd personally like to see in the game.

Here's the initial concept art that was submitted along with the final silhouette I drew up.
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I tinkered with other variants before landing on the above silhouette. I've never done silhouettes before, but after a few attempts I started getting the hang of it D
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Final hp and basic color scheme.
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TB2 is just, wow :thumbup:
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Let me know what ya'll think!

Replies

  • skyline5gtr
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    skyline5gtr polycounter lvl 11
    The modeling looks good, but there is so many high frequency details its hard to figure out whats going on. Alot of the details while neat looking seem very useless when it comes to functionality.

    Holding it looks like it would be extremely awkward since the stock is so thick and the handle is so far forward
  • Chase
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    Chase polycounter lvl 9
    Thanks for the reply Nick! Most of the details I added were purely to break up the shapes. You're right that most of them don't do anything from a functionality stand point. I just thought they looked cool. Probably could've toned back a few areas so it was less noisy.
  • Chase
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    Chase polycounter lvl 9
    Massive update incoming!!!

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    Marmoset Viewer

    FLATS

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    HIGH POLY

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    LOW POLY + WIRES

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  • Obscura
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    Obscura grand marshal polycounter
    Looks like you understood how pbr works ^^ Model is nice, Maybe the roughness texture could use more love. My only suggestion for now would be to use padding on every of the textures, not just on the normalmap. Seams can appear because of them too when they are mipped. Its the same thing as what you got with your normal ages ago. The game use pbs now?!
  • Chase
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    Chase polycounter lvl 9
    Hey Kris it's been FOREVER!!! It took awhile to get the materials to look like their real life counterpart but I do believe I understand the metalness workflow :D I'm gonna learn the spec/gloss next. The padding on my other textures is definitely something I'll incorporate. The game still uses the old shading engine so I textured for that and then redid the texturing for PBS :D I didn't want to do the converting of the old maps to new just cause I wanted to be able to start from scratch.
  • Staubkopf
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    Staubkopf polycounter lvl 3
    ahhh your clean and nice baked normal map gives me envyyy :) nice work

    did you explode your model? would you mind showing an image of it, if yes?

    also am i right that you didnt bevel any of the edges in the lowPoly model?
  • Chase
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    Chase polycounter lvl 9
    Thank you Staubkopf! I did indeed explode the bake :D There's the match by material ID option you could do as well if you bake in Max, but I'm just use to exploding the mesh. I'll grab a few images and post them here later today once I get a spare moment! My bake wasn't without a few shading issues, but those were masked off with the texturing. Gotta pick your battles some times haha 8)

    You are correct about not beveling. This is for a last gen MMORPG so I was needing to keep the tri count down. I could've reduced it more than I did. Any added bevels would've shot that count up, but would've made uv'ing easier since I could use less uv splits at hard edges.
  • Staubkopf
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    Staubkopf polycounter lvl 3
    Hey Chase

    Thanks for your insight, i'll wait for your images. Would you mind sharing your uv maps? I'm trying to learn everything i can about baking, but's it's quite difficult for me sometimes^^

    and i found that i can learn quite a lot trough other peeple's work
  • Shrike
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    Shrike interpolator
    you executed that pretty nicely, but the concept is weak and that is hurting your results, a lot.
    In the future, no rifle would ever look like that. Form follows function, and there is no function in 80% of the weapon. If you want to make a good weapon design, take 80% of a existing weapon (remember they put 1000 times the time and thought into it than you ever will with your concept as an artist no matter how good you are and theirs actually works, is produced and sold and many people critiqued it.) then add the features your futuristic version would have. If it has lasers, add a battery, a lens and cables to the power source. If it uses plasma, add a appropriate canister and gaz stuff. If your scope is using computers check out some existing CPU tech. Change form a bit maybe, add your own charme. Also there are many many guns out there being sold for 20 years that look more futuristic than most of the sci-fi concepts made. Authenticity is the key to making a badass gun, don't waste time by not profiting from thousands of hours of work put into real guns. You also learn a lot faster following a reference as you will just do the shapes that are convenient for the moment and ignore the difficult ones if you model your own thing.

    Keep it up, the modeling skills are promising, but dont waste your precious time and portfolio pieces with concepts someone sketched in 30min.
  • Deforges
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    Deforges polycounter lvl 11
    It's a nice model and baked well, my only gripe is with the texture. You seem to have a lot of surface noise on your materials that just doesn't match any real world components. The metal portions that show due to scratches are blown out a bit like at the bottom stock.

    I think you would be in much better shape if you just reduced that surface noise! Also try to breakup your materials a bit - everything in your roughness map seems to have the same base value.

    Keep at it!
  • JFinn_UK
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    JFinn_UK polycounter lvl 7
    Looks neat, I doubt a sniper rifle would have lights on it but I don't think anybody is really gonna mark you down for that XD Great work!
  • Chase
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    Chase polycounter lvl 9
    Your comments mean a lot guys! I've finally started to feel like I belong in the industry :nerd: I certainly have a ways to go still, but after being on Snake Way all this time (that was for all my DBZ fans haha) it feels great knowing my hard work is paying off!

    @Shrike I totally feel ya on everything you're saying. We've been giving people the opportunity to send in sketches of weapons they want to use in the game. Clearly we don't expect masterful artwork lol. I didn't want to deviate too far from the original design only because I don't know how that person would've felt if I had reworked it entirely. That's some solid advice for my next weapon! I'll use that general ~80% of a pre-made weapon and ~20% to future it up some. Get's most of the design work done for me.

    @Deforges I'll take another pass at my roughness. I can see how everything appears of a similar base value. It needs more contrast. Still trying to get better at material definition, but I think I'm on my way. I think the surface noise is a result of either the brush size I used or possibly the sharpness I have turned up in marmoset :D The plastic might be a tad overly done. I'll try toning it back as well.

    @mrjimmy Blast! I don't think this gun would pass field inspection :poly136: It could do some damage though!

    @Staubkopf Here's a breakdown of my workflow. Gonna refine some things to make it more efficient so don't take everything for gospel :)

    Exploded bake
    ke0ZxR3.png

    The main idea behind explode baking is to move elements far enough away from one another so that an element's cage projection doesn't overlap with anothers. This would cause ray misses which is just a technical way of saying that area didn't project correctly. The green pieces are the low poly and the grey are the high poly/floating geo.

    Determining what to mirror and what to leave as a unique element
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    Anything red is unique while anything green is something I mirrored. This has been an evolving process for me. When deciding what components of your mesh can be reused just imagine:

    a) What type of game is this for? That will give you a general idea of the triangle budget which potentially frees up how you allocate any unique texturing.
    b) The camera view. For example, if it's a FPS you don't want to mirror the sight areas because that will be what the player sees the most. The forend of the gun won't be seen by the player so that area can be mirrored.

    Did you know that you can mirror specific faces just as easily as you can mirror the entire element! I never thought of that until commador filled me in on this revelation and blew my mind. I always associated symmetry with that lovely symmetry line running down the model. You'll notice I don't have a symmetry line like that anywhere. I kept the inner part of the model unique, an area I'd have typically placed symmetry in only to deal with a symmetry line. This isn't to say you have to always apply symmetry this way. I just wish to avoid having that symmetry line. Some engines have a work around. UDK had a nifty solution where you could fix the inverted shading you get with mirroring down the middle. I can only assume UE4 can do the same thing?

    UV map
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    You want to make sure you have enough padding for each UV shell in ALL of your textures. That's something I didn't quite have enough of in my Albedo, Metalness and Roughness. I should've extended the borders for each shell outwards by like 4 or 5 pixels. At different intervals of the game textures are mip mapped, another technical term meaning your textures are down res'd. This happens when you're far away from the model since there's no reason to need to see a 2k texture from far away :)

    I've learned to place my UV shells together based on their relation to one another. So if the stock is in one area I'll put the shoulder pad and any other parts of that gun in that area of the UV map.

    What to do with mirrored elements
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    You want any mirrored UVs to be placed outside of the UV space. Any overlapping can cause artifacts and other issues when you bake your normal maps. The baker will ignore anything outside the 0-1 UV space.

    Setting up material selection map
    TYyFz3u.png

    I highly recommend that when you bake out a selection map to do so by material!
  • Obscura
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    Obscura grand marshal polycounter
    Chase, I have just one spit in for this time, Shrinke gave you the best suggestions in my opinion, and the point of what he said (in my opinion again) is that you really need to do more planning , research, thinking on functionality, and not just doing "random" parts and panel lines anc such. Other than it will make your asset more believable, after a few tries, it will make you able to make and conceptualize specific, functional things. A weapon should be a weapon, and not a jewelery or something. While you clearly need details, you still need to make it at least look working, and not to look like a puzzle. Hopefully this is clear :D You still did some nice modeling, and I appreciate the time you took into it! I'm sure, you also learned a lot during making it. Now its time to learn more :D Just keep going. Time efficiency is one thing that you should work on, but this is again just my personal opinion.
  • Chase
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    Chase polycounter lvl 9
    Oh I totally agree Kris! I'm sure the original designer behind this wouldn't have minded if I had taken a few more liberties to making it more functional. Form is my next area to cover :D I learned loads of stuff especially with PBR! Time efficiency, my nemesis! lol. I have another sniper rifle to make so I'll incorporate everything I'm soaking in from this one :)
  • Maxilator
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    Maxilator polycounter lvl 8
    Hi Chase, I Tried looking for this in the comments but couldn't find it, what programs do you use to create the high poly model? like do you create it in Zbrush and hardsurface from there or do you make it in something like Max or Maya?

    I started creating a rifle in brush and now I'm Unsure if I'm going about it the right way. Anyway, the gun looks really good and I'll use your workflow for baking! :)
  • Chase
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    Chase polycounter lvl 9
    Hey Max! I do all my modeling in 3ds Max. I've wanted to learn how to ZModel in the new ZBrush 4R7, but for now I'm sticking with ol' reliable haha. I like having control over my edge flow. Maybe you can do that in 4R7? Have you started a thread on your rifle? Maybe I can shed any information I've been learning :)
  • Maxilator
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    Maxilator polycounter lvl 8
    Yeah I have, here it is: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=150672

    I haven't updated it in a while as I just revisited the asset today, had a few other projects I had to do but I'll put up the latest update when I'm done for the day. I was just curious how people usually approach hard surface, as I never see the same artifacts in other peoples works as I see in mine (hard surface that it).

    And yes, the Zmodeler looks extremely promising and the next project I do will probably rely that. As it is I mostly stick to using shadowbox, clipping curves and deformation to do hardsurface so the new tools will probably flip the script for me :P
  • Staubkopf
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    Staubkopf polycounter lvl 3
    Hi Chase

    Thanks for your breakdown, it's very helpful. There were thing's i didn't know, for example the fact that the uv's of the mirror geometry don't have to be on the 0-1 uv space.

    Thanks for your tip's

    keep it up
  • Neox
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    Neox godlike master sticky
    man you got a cubic ton of shading errors in this, are you sure you're using the right tagentspace in marmoset?
  • [Deleted User]
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    [Deleted User] polycounter lvl 3
    I have to agree with Shrike and others- the concept here is rather weak. Even if you wanted to keep the original silhouette, you have a lot of leeway in where and how you add details.

    Remember your art fundamentals- even complex items need some rest areas. Balance out those high density areas with some larger panels to give it some visual diversity- it'll make those detail areas pop even more, and make the design more believable.

    My biggest concern about the design though is actually the thickness of certain areas- especially that grip area. The whole action sits on a wafer-thin panel that the grip is attached to. Other areas could be looked at too- remember that handle on top would be supporting the whole weight of the weapon.
  • Chase
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    Chase polycounter lvl 9
    Maxilator - I'll check out your project today!

    Staubkopf - No worries!

    Neox - I'll double check to make sure I'm using the right tangent space. How would I go about that? Picking the baker you used isn't in the mesh properties anymore. I've got my Y flipped correctly, but other than that I don't know of any options to choose my baker.

    Wasteland Melody - I guess I was too cautious about what and how much I was changing. With the consistent feedback of the overall design I wonder if it's something I should totally go back and rework or just apply to my next model. As a portfolio piece I want this to demonstrate my absolute best skill. If these design areas are as problematic as they sound it might be worth my while to go back to the drawing board. Decisions...
  • ElectricEchoes
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    ElectricEchoes polycounter lvl 6
    Hey Chase, I was meant to comment on this the other day, but didn't get around to it. There's certainly no harm in going back and making amends. As you said, you want to demonstrate your absolute best on your portfolio.

    I have to agree with what’s been said. I think you should focus on readability and functionality before complexity. Certain parts look good, but I think the receiver suffers from unnecessary detail. As mentioned above - there is no place to rest the eye; it needs visual diversity along with functionality.

    Personally I would study existing guns and concepts, and examine games like Destiny, Halo, etc. Try to replicate the important aspects and then apply your own. Something I noticed in futuristic shooters is that many of the guns look familiar yet they have aspects that make them look unique. The important attributes are there, but there are unique details built on top of that.

    Designing is hard, but you definitely have the skills to create a great model if you get the design right.

    edit: By the way, I hope I didn't sound too harsh. Keep in mind that the rifle does look good, but reworking a couple of things will take it to the level you want.
  • Chase
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    Chase polycounter lvl 9
    You weren't harsh at all Orlando! I'm not gonna improve unless I hear the honest truth, as much as it's a bit of a bummer lol. Designing is SO difficult, but it opens up a whole new world of endless possibilities if done right :)

    I've been reworking this puppy over the past few days to make everything more along the lines of what you all were suggesting. I did a collage of sorts and think I came up with something that's a marked improvement. Started from one end of the gun and really put myself in the mindset of holding it. I thought of comfort, usability, functions, and a lot less busy randomness. Here's what I came up with! Just gotta model it all out now.

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    VS

    Looking at the strap placement I think I'd have to extend the front for the location to make sense.
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    Neat silhouette
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    Call-outs that make even better sense
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    :thumbup: ?
  • 3dReaper
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    3dReaper polycounter lvl 4
    In my opinion the previous iteration looks more pleasing to me.

    The biggest issue I have with the newer design is the "barrel" or lack thereof where the energy beam shoots out. Why is it so long and empty? If I were to run with that I can picture the top and bottom slapping together or at the least bending from its own weight over the years.
  • Chase
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    Chase polycounter lvl 9
    I appreciate the comments Reaper! While I can sort of see what you're saying, I just can't land on a design I particularly like that covers a portion of that gap. For me I wanted to have a slender and sleek design. Reducing the gap adds a little more bulk than intended. I won't have the bottom frame as thin as it looks in the image. One thing I don't like is the strap location. I need to move the back ring to the stock of the gun.
  • Chase
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    Chase polycounter lvl 9
    Reworked the weight balance, stock in relation to the scope, and general color layout. Plus decal ideas lol. Not sure if I should omit the sticker idea

    YxA4asG.jpg
  • Chase
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    Chase polycounter lvl 9
    Been super busy and trying to get this puppy looking good. I have some more proportion adjustments to make, mainly the width of the overall gun and some other areas so it doesn't read so flat no the sides. Other than that hope you guys are liking the direction I'm going!

    yMvUaV8.jpg
  • Chase
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    Chase polycounter lvl 9
    Last hp update. Time for the lp!

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  • Chase
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    Chase polycounter lvl 9
    Bake done. Now onto texturing in Substance. Let me know what ya'll think!! 

  • Chase
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    Chase polycounter lvl 9
    Small update. Adding small scrapes first. I don't want to over do the wear as that tends to happen with my stuff. Tomorrow will be finishing up the scrapes then the dirt pass.







    Plan on doing a few decal variants too :smile: 
  • LaurentiuN
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    LaurentiuN polycounter
    This is looking way better then before, good job!
  • Chase
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    Chase polycounter lvl 9
    Thanks S1DK! I've been really working hard on this. I'm so happy it shows!

    Worked on the orange paint, some of the coated metal, and rubber. Trying to be frugal with my scratch placements.


  • Kobalt Kiwii
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    Kobalt Kiwii polycounter lvl 6
    Really liking the changes you've made :) the orange and white looks a lot better, I would still be careful of unnecessary noise in the future because there are some areas which could just do with a bit of a rethink but all in all good work with the crit you've got from these guys :D. someone said it earlier on in the thread but weapons are very much a form follows function area.
  • Chase
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    Chase polycounter lvl 9
    I appreciate the kind words Kobalt :smile: I definitely have learned a lot for my next go around. Texturing has been a big point of emphasis too :wink: 
  • Chase
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    Chase polycounter lvl 9
    At long last here are the final renders. I have a few other angles on my site if you want to take a look.

    Here's the marmoset view with other render angles chasemarkham.com



  • Chase
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    Chase polycounter lvl 9
    Shameless thread bump
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