Animation Feedback - Human vs. Wyvern

iNathanM · Apr 2015

Howdy folks,

It's been awhile since I last posted onto Polycount, though with the new Animation section I thought it'd be great to start posting regularly

I am currently working on a project with a Hand Animated Wyvern and a Motion Captured Human fighting. Currently I am at a "First Draft" stage, and there is quite a bit that needs tweaking - though I was wondering if I could get any additional feedback from you guys? Sometimes it's hard to notice the obvious when you've spent so many hours on something... :poly141:

This is my first time working on a creature so this has been a somewhat stressful yet fun experience

Draft One
[ame]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9jccwFhsAM[/ame]

Draft Two
[ame]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWkj4In9bJ8[/ame]

Draft Three
[ame]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxNM8ZofpEI[/ame]

Draft Four
[ame]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJTFhdQbwM0[/ame]

This patch fixes minimal things, the positioning of a few things are better and the sword now actually flows properly - huzzah! There are a few cuts to black, turns out when placing the separate scenes into Sony Vegas I left a gap between them - this will be ironed out in the next patch which will be very shortly, this one was just to show the sword is all smooth.

Draft Five
[ame]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCTgV3sZ-nI[/ame]

This patch has placed in the Wyvern's reaction to being stabbed, though I think it needs some extension to it which will be added into the next. It also added in a "follow through" for the Wyvern's tail as the Human runs up to it. This is currently what I'd class as rough, I just wanted something placed out ready for tomorrow to get an idea for it.

Patch/Draft Six coming in about 12 hours, it's time to sleep! Any feedback given will be added to the list

Planned fixes for Thursday 23rd April 2015

Wyvern land in "roar" scene should fold his wings as his head goes down (like Stormfly in HTTYD/HTTYD2), also Wyvern roar scene should include wing unfolds to show intimidation - gradually open slowly?
Wyvern land on building after flight in air, needs more additions which are being worked on still - stiff wings
Wyvern reactions to being stabbed - extend this a little, also extend Human being thrown to floor via tail
Make the Wyvern's Tail more fluid in the first seven seconds
Wyvern tail follow through as the Human runs toward it - finalise this - though rough placement now involved

Currently Known Problems will update regularly

Make the Wyvern's Tail more fluid in the first seven seconds
19 second mark the Wyvern movement is stiff (egymer)
19 second mark the Wing movement is off, check referencing such as Hobbit/GoT (egymer)
Wyvern land in "roar" scene is too linear
Wyvern land in "roar" scene should fold his wings as his head goes down (like Stormfly in HTTYD/HTTYD2), also Wyvern roar scene should include wing unfolds to show intimidation - gradually open slowly?
Check Wyvern's feet and make sure it digs into floor on landings and is always on floor

In Progress

Wyvern land on building after flight in air, needs more additions which are being worked on still - stiff wings
Wyvern reactions to being stabbed - extend this a little, also extend Human being thrown to floor via tail
Wyvern tail follow through as the Human runs toward it - finalise this - though rough placement now involved

Fixed Issues will update regularly

Give the Wyvern's Head more movement at the 37-40 second mark
Getting up in the Human's Arms looks stiff at the 56 seconds mark
Wyvern takes off behind the building, let it be shown clearer
Add in the Landing at the 1m11s to 1m14s mark
The ending sequence, use slow motion to create the desired effect continue adjusting this in the future
Timing in the beginning scenes needs to be fast paced, a little too slow currently (egymer) will render this out on the 22nd April
Scene where the Sword is being pulled out of the wall, closer camera and fix the step back
Wyvern land in "roar" scene should include tail movement [URGENT!]
Wyvern tail as the Human runs to stab it will flow from the previous tail movement
As Wyvern lands and roars the tail movement is temporary this is being mucked around with currently
When Human stabs the Wyvern's tail, get a shot without the tail blocking High Priority Fix

As a heads up this has all been rendered via 3DS Max's Viewport Render the render quality will be 3000x times better for the final piece! This was only rendered out this way to ensure feedback could be achieved easily.

I look forward to hearing feedback from all of you, the above issues are ones I have been pointed out but any additions to the above points or even any extras will be extremely welcomed. I'll be posting the re-works and fixes up as well so... welcome along for the ride? :poly124:

egymer · Apr 2015

First of all - Welcome!
Secondly, wow a minute and a half's worth of animation... That's.. Huge! I would recommend trying to cut it down? Right now you're trying to show this massive attack sequence, but it feel quiet slow - you don't need as much time on some of the camera angles and animations as you're currently giving.

Be very careful about the creature's weight. This wyvern is massive, and would need a lot of energy to change positions. Like the 0:05 mark, he feels very stiff. Try and research dragon references, maybe game of thrones or the hobbit?

At 0:19 when the wyvern takes off, the movement is very stiff and the wings wouldn't bend that way on this type of creature. Also not sure why he wouldn't just stomp forward and eat him right then and there? Seems a very short distance for him to spend all that energy taking off and settling down again?

0:27 - the human looks very calm about the fact that a massive wyvern is about to drop out of the sky and onto his head haha! You might want to have some quicker movements than just him idling - maybe stepping back, bracing, etc.

This is a super ambitious project - it'll take most people a month to polish up 11 seconds worth of animation to any degree, let along 1:30. It might be worth considering shortening your story a lot, so you can focus on the animation more. If not, I look forward to seeing you update

Good Luck!

iNathanM · Apr 2015

Hey egymer, cheers for your feedback it's honestly really appreciated

Yup it's a pretty hefty lump of animation, sadly as this is for a University project it had to be at least 1 minute 30 seconds, and it's my first time doing any sort of creature animation or cinematic as such in general!

I'm going to tone down some of the lengths of cameras due to your recommendation tomorrow when I jump back on it (sadly I have another assignment I need to spend some time on today), as well as get some more work into the Wyvern to make him less stiff - especially around the 5 second mark. I will watch both! I've been putting a lot of look into the Rathians from Monster Hunter as well as Stormfly from How to Train Your Dragon, would these be similar for reference?

I'll look into altering the Wyvern movements at the 19 second mark, and try to make the wings less stiff if I keep with the current movements of the Wyvern - I may change it to him stomping across the environment.

At 27 seconds I will definitely be making this bit my highest priority

Do you think him bracing will look better or stepping back personally ?

I've been working at it for about 2 months now, the rest of the semester was rigging and skinning the characters for the scene as well as planning out the positionings and actions of both before recording the Motion Capture data

I will keep you updated pretty muc daily now so :P

iNathanM · Apr 2015

Working on updates at the moment, a new updated render will be out tonight

iNathanM · Apr 2015

Draft Two
[ame]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWkj4In9bJ8[/ame]

Patch/Draft Three coming shortly! Any feedback given will be used in it

Currently Known Problems will update regularly

Make the Wyvern's Tail more fluid in the first seven seconds
Give the Wyvern's Head more movement at the 37-40 second mark
19 second mark the Wyvern movement is stiff (egymer)
19 second mark the Wing movement is off, check referencing such as Hobbit/GoT (egymer)
27 second mark the Human looks to calm about the sudden Wyvern drop, add bracing/step back (egymer)
When Human stabs the Wyvern's tail, get a shot without the tail blocking
Wyvern land in "roar" scene is too linear
Wyvern land in "roar" scene should fold his wings as his head goes down (like Stormfly in HTTYD/HTTYD2)
Check Wyvern's feet and make sure it digs into floor on landings and is always on floor

In Progress

As Wyvern lands and roars the tail movement is temporary this is being mucked around with currently
Wyvern land on building after flight in air, needs more additions which are being worked on still
Wyvern tail as the Human runs to stab it will flow from the previous tail movement

Fixed Issues will update regularly

Getting up in the Human's Arms looks stiff at the 56seconds mark
Wyvern takes off behind the building, let it be shown clearer
Add in the Landing at the 1m11s to 1m14s mark
The ending sequence, use slow motion to create the desired effect continue adjusting this in the future
Timing in the beginning scenes needs to be fast paced, a little too slow currently (egymer) will render this out on the 22nd April
Scene where the Sword is being pulled out of the wall, closer camera and fix the step back
Wyvern land in "roar" scene should include tail movement [URGENT!]

All of this has been placed into the main post
Oh and in the main post you can play both videos side by side and see the differences..!

iNathanM · Apr 2015

Draft Three
[ame]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxNM8ZofpEI[/ame]

Patch/Draft Four coming shortly! Any feedback given will be used in it

Currently Known Problems will update regularly

Make the Wyvern's Tail more fluid in the first seven seconds
Give the Wyvern's Head more movement at the 37-40 second mark
19 second mark the Wyvern movement is stiff (egymer)
19 second mark the Wing movement is off, check referencing such as Hobbit/GoT (egymer)
27 second mark the Human looks to calm about the sudden Wyvern drop, add bracing/step back (egymer)
Wyvern land in "roar" scene is too linear
Wyvern land in "roar" scene should fold his wings as his head goes down (like Stormfly in HTTYD/HTTYD2)
Check Wyvern's feet and make sure it digs into floor on landings and is always on floor

In Progress

Wyvern land on building after flight in air, needs more additions which are being worked on still
When Human stabs the Wyvern's tail, get a shot without the tail blocking High Priority Fix

Fixed Issues will update regularly

Getting up in the Human's Arms looks stiff at the 56seconds mark
Wyvern takes off behind the building, let it be shown clearer
Add in the Landing at the 1m11s to 1m14s mark
The ending sequence, use slow motion to create the desired effect continue adjusting this in the future
Timing in the beginning scenes needs to be fast paced, a little too slow currently (egymer) will render this out on the 22nd April
Scene where the Sword is being pulled out of the wall, closer camera and fix the step back
Wyvern land in "roar" scene should include tail movement [URGENT!]
Wyvern tail as the Human runs to stab it will flow from the previous tail movement
As Wyvern lands and roars the tail movement is temporary this is being mucked around with currently

As usual all updates are now in the main post, oh and you can still play all videos together (just about) to see alterations.

Any feedback is super appreciated - the renders will keep coming, hopefully another two by the end of today!

djamess91 · Apr 2015

Nice work Nath, love how it as all come together. Well done!

LloydHallam · Apr 2015

Yo, looking good so far buddy. These may seem a little nit picky but here's a few things I picked up on.

0:21 - Most of the roar is pretty cool, but the Wyverns wings aren't really doing much, I think it'd look cool if the wings started out folded when the roar starts and gradually spread out as though it was trying to look more intimidating.

0:27 - Wyverns tail stops really suddenly, typically there would be a little bit of "follow through" when something stops.

0:36 - When the Wyvern is stabbed through the tail, there's no reaction besides the very end of it's tail.

0:43 - Here we see the sword flipping through the air, but then at 0:47 it's flying through the air without flipping as though it had been thrown like a dart.

1:04 - Very stiff wings.

1:10 - I'm not sure how both the human and the dragon got back to the grassy area to continue their fight, when we last saw them, the dragon was on a roof and the human was by the building his sword was stuck in.

Regardless, it's still looking good so far and I know you're still working hard. Keep it up, not long left now!

iNathanM · Apr 2015

Thanks djamess91, it's still coming along so hopefully more updates will be there soon! LloydHallam cheers for the feedback, it's all been included into my brilliant to do list and will be worked on hopefully by Friday night!

On the other hand here is my latest update;

Draft Four
[ame]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJTFhdQbwM0[/ame]

This patch fixes minimal things, the positioning of a few things are better and the sword now actually flows properly - huzzah! There are a few cuts to black, turns out when placing the separate scenes into Sony Vegas I left a gap between them - this will be ironed out in the next patch which will be very shortly, this one was just to show the sword is all smooth.

Full list of fixes are in the top post, to save me spamming the list into each mini update

iNathanM · Apr 2015

Draft Five
[ame]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCTgV3sZ-nI[/ame]

This patch has placed in the Wyvern's reaction to being stabbed, though I think it needs some extension to it which will be added into the next. It also added in a "follow through" for the Wyvern's tail as the Human runs up to it. This is currently what I'd class as rough, I just wanted something placed out ready for tomorrow to get an idea for it.

As usual full list of fixes are in the top post, I've also added in a specific priority list of what will be done by the end of tomorrow (today now UK time). Feedback will be majorly appreciated

twister896 · May 2015

Looking good so far!
One thing I would say is at the start the wyvern feels very stiff, perhaps add in a bit of movement in the wings and body to give it more life!

LeeMeredith · May 2015

This is lacking so many principles of animation, there's no overlapping, no moving holds, no cause and effect. Sometimes the main character runs like he has a stick up his arse, with his arms forced straight down. The dragon is stiff and completely unrealistic. My advice is to go back to the basics, learn the 12 principles of animation and practice them as much as possible. If you can afford it I suggest taking workshop 0 of Ianimate to hammer the fundamentals into you, if not look for cheaper alternatives.