SOLVED: Problems syncing 3do viewer with marmoset + other engines
As it stands now with Quixel 1.8, its very difficult to sync whats being shown in the the 3do previewer vs marmoset, Maya or even a game engine.
These are the biggest blockers so far that are keeping us from that goal:
1) We need access to the HDR maps quixel is using. Can we hook up our own HDR maps ( they seem to be locked out in binary format) ? This is a MAJOR problem for trying to temporarily sync the 3do viewer to what were using in Maya and in our engine. Unfortunately, using the cross-App link is too cumbersome right now to fully replace the 3do viewer.
Ideally, it would be awesome to get marmoset to hook into ddo as an alternative previewer without needing the cross-app link.
2) We also need access to the light sources Quixel is using (besides the HDR maps ie. The actual point or directional lights ). It would be extremely helpful to have something in the UI where we can control: enable/disable, direction, color, intensity, solid angle ( if applicable ), plus save or load the preset .
Additional problems weve noticed:
It seems the 3do previewer is supposed to use a blinn-phong method rather than ggx, but compared to marmosets blinn phong its still very different. For example, why does the spec highlight size look so similar between 0-0.5 ( see attached image ) ? This thread originally brought up the issue with ggx, but even non-ggx ( blinn-phong ) seems broken: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=138666
The output curve on the gloss for pbr-ggx seems really weird. It doesnt seem to bring the gloss values to the proper range that ggx is expecting ( see attached image ).
Also, why is the albedo map brightened and de-saturated when exported with Toolbag 2 calibration settings ( see image ) ?
Looking forward to hearing back, especially for the first 2 items. Thanks!
These are the biggest blockers so far that are keeping us from that goal:
1) We need access to the HDR maps quixel is using. Can we hook up our own HDR maps ( they seem to be locked out in binary format) ? This is a MAJOR problem for trying to temporarily sync the 3do viewer to what were using in Maya and in our engine. Unfortunately, using the cross-App link is too cumbersome right now to fully replace the 3do viewer.
Ideally, it would be awesome to get marmoset to hook into ddo as an alternative previewer without needing the cross-app link.2) We also need access to the light sources Quixel is using (besides the HDR maps ie. The actual point or directional lights ). It would be extremely helpful to have something in the UI where we can control: enable/disable, direction, color, intensity, solid angle ( if applicable ), plus save or load the preset .
Additional problems weve noticed:
It seems the 3do previewer is supposed to use a blinn-phong method rather than ggx, but compared to marmosets blinn phong its still very different. For example, why does the spec highlight size look so similar between 0-0.5 ( see attached image ) ? This thread originally brought up the issue with ggx, but even non-ggx ( blinn-phong ) seems broken: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=138666
The output curve on the gloss for pbr-ggx seems really weird. It doesnt seem to bring the gloss values to the proper range that ggx is expecting ( see attached image ).
Also, why is the albedo map brightened and de-saturated when exported with Toolbag 2 calibration settings ( see image ) ?
Looking forward to hearing back, especially for the first 2 items. Thanks!
Replies
2 - Each HDRI has one directional light attached to it, these values are untweakable, and will likely remain so.
You are right in that the 3DO shaders differ quite a bit from the Toolbag 2 shaders (this is why the cross-app mode exists -- so you can work directly with the target renderer, since most renderers have their own "brand" of PBR and differ from 3DO in one way or another). That is why in the next update of 3DO the shaders have been completely revisited, and are now identical to the Unity 5 standard PBR shader (which in turn is very similar to Toolbag 2).
As a side note, it is possible to switch the 3DO previewer for Marmoset similar to how you are describing. The cross-app mode can be customized not to hide Photoshop, and to make the Marmoset viewer top-most (just like 3DO is). Simply check "App is Topmost" to enable this mode.
Sorry about the confusions and I hope this bit of information helps.
Thanks for the reply!
1- I was at least able to find one of the HDRI maps ( "Complex Roof Lights" ) online but haven't had luck with the others yet. I'll keep hunting though.
2 - If those lights won't be tweakable at least give us the option to disable them please
I'm glad to hear that you guys will be syncing to at least one standard in the next 3do update. I'm even more glad it's similar to Toolbag 2.
I thought I tried those exact tips regarding cross-app and photoshop still seemed to act weird with ddo in terms of windows disappearing. I'll have to try again and report back.
As someone who uses Unity, I'm glad to hear this! :thumbup:
2 - I will pass this on to the dev-team!
If the devil is happy then I am happy!
I've had time to test the cross app link with "app is topmost" enabled for Toolbag 2 and it's a major improvement compared to what I was experiencing with it unchecked. Thanks again for that tip! I'm also using a custom calibration profile to force custom curves on the spec color and gloss maps so that they are closer to the ggx range that we're expecting. It's still not as synced as it could be but I'm hoping when you guys update quixel to be calibrated to unity 5 pbr, that problem will go away.
Oh and here's a link to one of the hdr maps I found online that 3do is using:
http://www.mrbluesummers.com/4683/downloads/free-hdri-map-complex-roof-lights
Edit: Found a few more (and marmoset toolbag 2 uses these in its default sky browser set )
http://dativ.at/lightprobes/hallstatt4_hd.hdr
http://gl.ict.usc.edu/Data/HighResProbes/probes/pisa.hdr
In that thread I posted link on default HDRI 3DO is using
Thanks Avis! I just downloaded it :thumbup: