Making Art tests and not getting response from employers
polycounter lvl 14
Hello, from some time I'm struggling to get a full-time job as a 3D artist in United Kingdom, which is a new place for living to me. What wonders me is that I have made art tests for two highly recognizable and prestigious studios. During making these art tests, before deadline I had a good contact via e-mail. This means that I received responses in next working day for my inquiries. BUT... after I finished my art tests and sending to them I did not received any reply. In one's company case it was already over 1,5 month ago and second art test I finished just a few days ago, but situation unfortunately looks very similar.
Obviously I sent e-mails with inquiries about progress of my application or request for feedback (to the first company only).
Really I don't know what to think about all of this. I don't have much experience in getting job but I am sure that level of quality of my art tests should guarantee at least honest response from employers.
Maybe someone could share a thought about this issue?
Obviously I sent e-mails with inquiries about progress of my application or request for feedback (to the first company only).
Really I don't know what to think about all of this. I don't have much experience in getting job but I am sure that level of quality of my art tests should guarantee at least honest response from employers.
Maybe someone could share a thought about this issue?
Replies
They are basically asking you to work for free for them; they might glance at your test, and then decide in a few seconds you're not worth an interview. All the while not providing any feedback. In this industry we need feedback to get better at our craft.
I feel most studios should carefully evaluate all candidates and offer a paid art test at least.
Asking someone to put in 40-80 hours for free is really insulting.
But, unfortunately, with business it's a supply and demand issue. Too many guys want in, they know they can ask for it and get it.
And Axcel, you do good work, I can understand your frustration.
even if you are pretty good, you dont know what competition you have, so you might just be another fish in the pond. even if you are on e of the better fish, they wont reply to the top 5 or something, they proly just reply to the guy they want to hire.
i had something like this once and i send them a mail that this behavior is rude and unprofessional, and surprisingly i got a reply and a very in depth personal review of my art test.
realy the professional thing to do for them is to atleast send you a copy paste-message that they chose another applicant.
maby the HR guy has too many mails, or maby they just dont care, could be both, but there is nothing you can do about it, i know it sucks.
not even an email. I tried to contact them but had no luck. this kind of thing happened to me number of times.
My advise is Just move forward.... do not expect too much from them, and keep producing ..
It's one thing to not answer when you receive a gazillion of resumes. But when you ask somebody to spend unpaid time on your art test, you better respond - no matter the outcome or quality. That's just common courtesy. Really, places like this should be ashamed of themselves and their shoddy practices.
There are legal reason why most companies don`t get into giving feedback. I got reamed at one of my early jobs for giving feedback and the reasons (directly forwarded from CEO to attorney to me) was a bit like this:
- Can turn into a pissing match of "I do have talent, but this test was not in my favor...", "I can edit the work and do this...", "I can do that...", "why didn`t you see this spot where I did this...?" etc.. Harsh words might be said in the unsupervised exchange of emails and someone can get "hurt". Not all artist use tact at delivering feedback. And even if tact is used, people are people...
- Feedback can be contorted into discrimination, which can be used to sue the company in question. Rare cases though... you all know how people can be when they get harsh feedback and they are not used to it.
- Feedback must be approved to give out (usually involving law-speakanese).
There was more stuff they said, but the above is a summary. This may not be the case and up to the individual studios to deal with this on their terms. I used to get pissed when I got zero feedback. But after I got in trouble and had the attorney explain to me why I shouldn't, I don't get pissed anymore. I move on.....unless they get your name completely wrong, at that point its just infuriating.
To the op, your work looks great mate, keep applying you will wind up with a job in no time.
But who knows....After contacting them and getting no response, move on.
The sad truth is, that there myriad of reasons, why you don't get reply.
Email has been read by wrong person (luck issue), and have been trashed instantly.
Person who read that have bad day..
Someone, turned better than you.
Fun thing is all those reasons are equally viable..
What is really annoying is that there is no response at all. It's just plain insulting and lack of respect. I don't care what you write. If you send me email with simple No, it will feel better than no response at all.
I have bee applying recently for job as Gameplay Programmer (bit unrelated note), I have send several poor made resumes (mainly because I haven't really worked professionally as programmer, nor do I have any degree in CS, you can call me self taught in ever respect).
But I have some projects on Github related to UE4.
To said it simply. Most companies did not responded at all. One refereed me to other site, to look for job (in game indstury), coz they don't look for programmers right now. One send me a test, which I have done in few hours and send back. After that nothing.
One, asked me for onsite interview (lasted about 30-40 minutes) and gave me a task, to make game, with my own deadline. (I said one week
I haven't had response for like 2.5 weeks, but... I got response and I landed a job. For now anyway.
Moral of the story. Keep pushing. And if you feel you can do something in other field, try it, improve over it.
If you can apply to position in QA, or basically anything related in game industry that you feel you might do (if you want to work in game industry), you never know what might happen.
What i'm trying to say is that not receiving response from employer is just the way it is. Not just CG, but every thing. Consider a privilege if you get 1 but there really is no reason to waste time trying to argue they should reply or anything of that matter.
Put your energy into your reel, create awesome stuff, improve your skill, and into applying for different company. That's a more productive way to use your energy.
It's the world we live in. People will sue when upset and not getting hired tends to upset people.
There are some really good ones I've seen set-up which structure feedback and process into the test, but that seems to be really rare, having taken multiple tests over the last few years and generally having long waits and generic template replies.
Just pick and choose your tests, if they seem unstructured or are asking for 2 weeks of work then have a quick think to yourself regarding what you're going to get out of the 2 weeks if everything goes badly. (Folio assets / etc), don't take every test given to you for the sake of it.
For me to do an art test I would have to be very eager to work for the company. I would need to benefit enough from having the piece in my portfolio, and I would get them to agree to proper feedback before starting. I would also try to get some payment for the test. I only do an art test if I still get enough out of it without getting the job. So I still gain from it if worst comes to worst. Ask Dilated Peoples.
I've actually found the CG industry to be worse than retail/restaurant/trade in this regard. When you get people busting their balls for days/weeks, handing over their work for no money, sending polite follow-up emails to know where they stand, but not even getting a reply out of common courtesy. Well that says it all really.
i think thats still kind of a cop out.
if the applicant is from another country he probably wont even be able to sue you, and i have never seen any news headline about a company giving bad feedback about an arttest.
also you are demanding free work with no pay, wich is in itself a shady business practice.
if you are going to get sued, its over that, and not over giving a nice formal reply, that you chose another applicant.
In the end: WE WANT TO KNOW. Did our stuff get lost in the piles of applicants and looked over? It is nerve bending.
While applying there are companies which are gonna give you an answer and some that won't. And sometimes there are a lot of reasons behind no getting an answer (bigger issues).
A lot of companies use actually software for this kind of stuff, so you know how the overall progress is at the moment.
Can you imagine to answer 400 ppl just for one position? what about if you got 20 opened positions ?
Honestly, somebody already said it here, when applying do a massive thing... and expect just to get an answer from half of it. Timing also is important.... video game cycles works in 2-3 years projects... sometimes there is a lot of work....sometimes there is not at all...
Also a lot of companies got opened positions that had been already filled.
And again... make it easy for people to find you... signatures in polycount, linkedin...
Im sure for every bad experience, is gonna be a good experience...
And thats is, there is no reason for a company to spend time to give to a critique. You of course as the test taker would LOVE that but its not realistic from a business standpoint. With the sheer volume a lot of these company's deal with its impossible to do so.
The amount of time leads have to put into actually interviewing and dealing with people who ARE good enough to hire is quite a lot. They don't have time to review peoples art test and give feedback. Its unfortunately unrealistic.
nah, it's free soft drinks, that make you obese, and a gym, everyone is too busy to use because of crunch, that get you there
If it's a huge, very well known, AAA studio, then I could understand.
However, do smaller studio located in the middle of nowhere give no response or contact information?
Amen. That's probably the thing I hate the most about art tests. How about before I put in 40-80 hours of what is essentially free, overtime work we chat in person for 5 minutes? Being asked to work for free without even knowing if I like their vibe or not always seemed to me like a dick move.
Sometimes is about making the right decision and not doing 40 hours art test without even an interview
when i was looking for a job, it was what, 2010 i think (since 2011 i dont update my folio hehe), i applied for a studio in naples, italy. a small one, called raylight studios. dev working together with nintendo for portable titles. i figured it would have been a good idea, since 1) i live in the area, 2) there are few italian 3d artists, 3) fewer good ones, 4) even fewer wanting to be pros. so it would have been a good shot.
guess what?
no reply.
Yes, agreed. Art test should be one of the last things done, not one of the first. Make sure you're interested in that person before wasting 40 hours of their lives on a test.
Companies often don't really know exactly who they want to hire so they fish around and see what they catch.
It's refreshing to be interviewed for work in other industries. They ask direct questions about specific skills and specific problems, and then ask for some references. They check references, call me the next day and tell me I'm hired. Boom, done.
i can't tell if you are being sarcastic... i realy can't
isn't that the norm? or are you saying that..... ?!? wtf
good to know though that many in the industry aren't just treating their customers as potential thieves, but that the same distrust exists when it comes to the people working for them /sarcasm
Unless you're probing for very specific skills, art tests say "we don't quite fully believe that you really did the stuff we see in your folio".
They knew up front I had no QA experience... why give me the test? Why waste my time and give false hope.
-I actually did the same test twice for them, first time I think the job went to someone internal or they lost a project and no longer needed the position - but I did get an interview after the test, unlike the second time (over a year later) they said they were LOOKING for someone more experienced, not went with... which hurts the feels real bad :P
anyway my struggle to get into the industry continues, thought QA would be a decent way to start but I have no luck with that or 3D sadly
anyone in Ontario or Canada for that matter that likes my stuff and thinks they can help me out with a jr. role please let me know : )
In any case if you make a big song and dance about the fact you didn't get hired, it might put employers off
In the mean time just carry on applying without any expectation.
Well, I guess I understand. Lots of you think working on games is your purpose in life, which is just not true for me. I happily took a job in advertising over a games job because the advertising studio I work for is awesome.
edit: would you take an art test for a freelance client? Fuck no.
edit again: Does anyone here really think they can't get a gauge of someone's ability by their portfolio?
If you're hiring someone with zero production experience, then guess what. You're gonna have to train them to do things properly. Additionally, if you're hiring someone with zero experience, they're probably gonna start off slow, and get faster as they get used to the job.
And even if you give someone an art test, you have no idea how long the asset took them. Maybe they didn't sleep for a week. Maybe they worked on it for 30 minutes a day.
I've had a few big studios request an art test before they could put me on their freelance books. I simply declined and told them that I don't have the time to work for free. But some of the replies and the sense of self entitlement to my free labour was quite insulting.