Building a new computer, need some tips.

Tomseas

Hey,

As I'm getting more and more into 3d, it seems my low end laptop isn't going to cut it. From freezing to crashes to a lot of lag, working feels like an uphill battle. As such I'm thinking about buying a desktop with a bigger budget.
I've asked on the buildapcforme subreddit.

This is what I've got so far
[PCPartPicker part list](http://pcpartpicker.com/p/drwxjX) / [Price breakdown by merchant](http://pcpartpicker.com/p/drwxjX/by_merchant/)

Type|Item|Price
:----|:----|:----
**CPU** | [Intel Core i7-5820K 3.3GHz 6-Core Processor](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/intel-cpu-bx80648i75820k) | $372.95 @ SuperBiiz
**CPU Cooler** | [Phanteks PH-TC12DX_BK 68.5 CFM CPU Cooler](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/phanteks-cpu-cooler-phtc12dxbk) | $49.99 @ Newegg
**Motherboard** | [ASRock X99 Extreme4 ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/asrock-motherboard-x99extreme4) | $208.99 @ SuperBiiz
**Memory** | [Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR4-2400 Memory](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/crucial-memory-bls4k4g4d240fsa) | $167.98 @ Newegg
**Storage** | [Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/crucial-internal-hard-drive-ct256mx100ssd1) | $108.99 @ SuperBiiz
**Storage** | [Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/western-digital-internal-hard-drive-wd10ezex) | $44.99 @ Amazon
**Video Card** | [Zotac GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB Video Card](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/zotac-video-card-zt7060510m) | $129.99 @ Amazon
**Case** | [NZXT S340 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/nzxt-case-cas340wb1) | $64.99 @ Micro Center
**Power Supply** | [Corsair CX 500W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-power-supply-cx500m) | $67.99 @ Micro Center
**Monitor** | [Acer H236HLbid 60Hz 23.0" Monitor](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/acer-monitor-umvh6aa003) | $149.99 @ Best Buy
| *Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts* |
| Total (before mail-in rebates) | $1376.85
| Mail-in rebates | -$10.00
| **Total** | **$1366.85**
| Generated by [PCPartPicker](http://pcpartpicker.com) 2015-04-09 20:10 EDT-0400 |

But I have a budget of max 1800 so I'm wondering which parts I should upgrade first.
For those interested, here's what I posted on reddit (in terms of things i'd like/don't need):
http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcforme/comments/31puih/help_me_build_a_pc_for_3d_modeling_zbrushmaya/

Gnutmi

Try going for 2x8GB modules so you can upgrade later to 32gb. Depending on your work 32gb of ram could come handy.

If you want to work as a games artist I'd recommend a better GPU. The 750 GTX might be on the low end of things.

I'd also recommend a screen that is on the higher end of the spectrum. That will be the thing that you will be starring at for the most part of your life so getting a quality one can be very useful. Getting 2 good screens can be a good long term investment.

EarthQuake

+1 to 2x8

You can drop the cpu cooler unless you have a specific need for it, Intel's stock fan is usually fine. If you're going to OC or are building an ultra silent system or something maybe replace it, otherwise no need.

You can go with a less expensive motherboard too, no need to pay for EXTREME GAMER mobo unless you need to do something insane like quad SLI or overclocking. Really there is no need to overclock a CPU that fast (risk of instability is the last thing you want on a workstation), and even a micro-atx board will cover 99% of people's needs as nearly everything you would want (audio, lan, raid) is built into even the most basic boards these days.

The money you save there can be put into a better GPU. a a 960 or 970 perhaps, 980 if you really want to go crazy/are looking for an excuse to spend your entire $1800 budget.

You could go up to a Samsung EVO 850 500gb for about $180, SSD prices are pretty reasonable these days.

Dataday

Not to toot my own horn, but I just ended up making a very similiar system, only micro ATX.

Case: Corsair Carbide Air 240
CPU: 5820k
RAM: 32gb ddr4 2800mhz (4x8gig sticks, ADATA) (Best deal right now 50% off, $299 via NewEgg )
CPU Cooler: Silverstone Tundra TD02-E ($99 via amazon) (keeps it at a constant 28-33 degrees)(Comes from same manufacture as the Enermax Liqtech 240, highly rated).
Mobo: Asrock X99M Killer Fatal1ty ($180 on sale, new egg)

The 970 + PSU (EVGA) pulled from older computer.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6C-cBuP60GjSU11NFdfY3B0b2c/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6C-cBuP60GjUjBweUlVSXVzM2M/view?usp=sharing


I highly recommend you get that RAM deal I mentioned above, also opt for closed loop water cooling system. Just grab some quiet fans like the Swiftech Helix (2xfans $20) for the radiator. No matter what I do I cant see to get the CPU above 40 degrees with this thing.

Also for a full ATX case, I would consider the MSI X99S.

iadagraca

I agree with removing the cooler and suggest putting that money into a better card.

If you want as long term solution I REALLY like this card for it's price. the 2GB versions are $199.

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/evga-video-card-04gp43966kr

Tomseas

Thanks everyone!
Time to go do some homework and come back with a new build

beefaroni

Wait the 5820k doesn't come with a cooler.

@Earthquake, the X99 is more expensive mobo wise as well as the ram.

When I built mine I believe my cheapest option was the MSI X99 SLI Plus with a Evo 212 cooler.

ZacD

Nope, it's too hot for their stock cooler, so they didn't want to make a cooler for the higher TDP CPUs, I have the 5930k.

EarthQuake

Ah I see, in that case I would go with a 4790K/LGA 1150 board, that will save you a significant amount of money on cooler/mobo/ram. CPU is a little cheaper too and only a hair slower.

The 5820 has 6 cores, which sounds cool, until you realize that its 6 cores have slower clocks than the 4970's 4 cores, which means you'll only see an improvement when you're using apps that mulithread well enough to efficiently use all 6 cores (very few apps, offline rendering would be about the only situation), everywhere else the fast core clocks of the 4970 will actually mean better performance. So for day to day use, the 4970 might even out perform the 5820, certainly in apps that are threaded only for 1 or 2 cores.

That doesn't take the memory clock differences into account though, which honestly I don't know enough about to say what sort of practical difference it makes.

Also for X99, you will need 4x ram sticks, contrary what I and another posted said, as its quad-channel rather than dual-channel, sorry for the confusion.

ZacD

I'd say go with a 4 core and get good cooling and overclocking or a better GPU instead, and you'll get better performance for cheaper, I kinda wish I didn't go with the 6 core now that I've been playing with a lot of realtime GI solutions.

maglev

gpu is super important especially for the zbrush mud segment. the speed difference between 2400 and 2800 is negligible. could you use the 32 gigs? yes especially for ridiculously heavy models. ram/gpu you are most likely to swap. most people don't change their cpu's. Also if you are increasing your GPU please reconsider your current PSU as 650 750 would give you some cushion in the event you add more stuff in the future.

JedTheKrampus

maglev wrote: »

gpu is super important especially for the zbrush mud segment. the speed difference between 2400 and 2800 is negligible. could you use the 32 gigs? yes especially for ridiculously heavy models. ram/gpu you are most likely to swap. most people don't change their cpu's. Also if you are increasing your GPU please reconsider your current PSU as 650 750 would give you some cushion in the event you add more stuff in the future.

Please don't spread misinformation. Zbrush actually doesn't use your GPU at all, which is why it runs so passably on average computers compared to most tools of the trade. For Zbrush you'll therefore get more benefit from a stronger CPU, and it generally even benefits from having more cores available as the sculpting engine and many plugins are threaded. Mudbox does benefit from a strong GPU, though.

Now if you want to take your sculpts back into a 3d app like Maya or Max to bake with them... well, in that case it's probably advisable to turn the viewport display to 'bounding box' anyway and select stuff in the outliner for baking purposes, so GPU doesn't really matter much in this case either. I wouldn't get a 750 Ti for a $2000 workstation, though, that's for sure. It's a step up from console GPUs but not by much.

Generally my recipe for a good workstation is go to logicalincrements.com, find the row that fits your budget, and get the GPU from two rows or so above and the CPU and RAM from two rows or so below. 3d art is one of the rare applications these days that still benefits a lot from having a really strong CPU and lots of RAM, and with GPU-based bakers like substance designer and mightybake coming out the bias towards CPUs compared to gaming rigs is shrinking only slightly, as most main apps are still extremely CPU-dependent (especially Zbrush and main 3D apps.)

So for example, for OP's 1800 budget, I'd recommend the following build.

GPU: GTX 970, $330
CPU: i7 5820k, $387 (anything beyond this is just not worth the added cost for this budget)
Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S, $68
Mobo: MSI X99S SLI Plus, $220
RAM: 32 GB DDR4, $395
SSD: Something from Samsung around 500 GB, $200ish depending on sale prices
PSU: EVGA 850 G2, $129. If you want to get another power supply make sure it's modular, helps with cable management lots.
Case: Case of your choice, follow your heart, make sure it's an ATX mid tower to fit the motherboard. Probably $60ish will get a fine case.

The total comes out to right around $1800, though I think a more modest build would do just fine and leave more room for upgrades later.

OP: if you don't have a tablet, you should make sure to get one before you go spending $1800 on a fancy new PC. It will do a lot more for your art to have a good tablet than any of this fancy hardware stuff. I know you've probably got one, but it never hurts to make sure.

beefaroni

Maybe the 212 evo. I've been running my 5820k @ 4.0ghz daily with 0 issues. It's a great cheap cooler. He also shouldn't need more than 650 watts max for everything.

EarthQuake

JedTheKrampus wrote: »

Please don't spread misinformation.

That confused me too, but I think it was a typo, as later in his post he talks about how easily you can replace a GPU, so I assume he meant the importance of CPU in zbrush.

ZacD

Personally I'd go something like:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($324.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97X-UD3H ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($99.99 @ Micro Center)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($96.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Sandisk Ultra Plus 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 970 4GB Superclocked ACX 2.0 Video Card ($316.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 Blackout with Window ATX Mid Tower Case ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($64.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $1073.92
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-04-11 22:59 EDT-0400


+ Display: ACER XB270HU $800 or 2x Korean monitors $600 or some 1440p IPS dipslays


Of course storage, ram, motherboard, PSU, GPU could easily be swapped with similar versions.

EarthQuake

Yeah, my recommendations would be very similar to Zac's, even with a significantly better GPU he managed to shave off like $300 without much difference in cpu speed etc.

Though I would go with a 500GB or 1TB Samsung EVO 850 SSD too =P

Monitors... Too many choices for monitors, just make sure its a decent IPS panel!

Also, I would buy everything from Newegg unless there are significant price differences (usually aren't) as Newegg is awesome to deal with if you need to return something or if something is DOA etc. Just make sure you're buying from actual Newegg, not one of the 3rd party stores.

ZacD

The only reason I got it down to $1000 was to squeeze the ACER XB270HU $800 in there :P

If you didn't want to spend that much on a monitor, I'd really suggest looking at 2 of the Korean pannels, and upgrading the ram and storage.

beefaroni

Why not a PB278Q and a second 1080P IPS monitor? The Acer XB270HU seems a little overkill.

ZacD

For lower latency, 144hz, and gsync. Worth the extra $350 if you care about those things, but definitely way more of a gaming related luxery than a necessity. I'd probably get one with that build I posted if you threw away my computer today and told me I had $1800 to spend on a computer.

Joao Sapiro

Im also trying to assemble a computer like that but its infuriating thT the parts cost 50% more in portugal and sending them thru mail is impossible due to high tax on alfandegary goods...americans have it easy

This thread has been very informative , thanks

ZacD

I've heard of many situations where it's cheaper to fly to the USA and buy software/hardware, and take it home, than buy it or ship it to their own country. I think one of the examples with with Autodesk software prices in Europe.

dfacto

Just a thought if you want to save cash: The AMD FX-8350 has great customer reviews, is fast, has 8 cores, and is CHEAP. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113284

You can snag a decent mobo for it for $100-150 and you'll knock a lot off the price. The i7-4790 outperforms it, true, but the 8350 is easily overclockable if you get a better cooler (~$30-50) and you'll get the same speeds.

EarthQuake

Well, you can overclock a 4790 too, so comparing a CPU at stock vs another OC'ed is apples to oranges.

Again, the 8350 is an 8-core cpu, and even using all 8 cores is slower than the 4790. What this means in real life is that, in poorly threaded apps than can only use 1 or 2 cores efficiently, the 4790 will be way, way faster.

Even if your app supports multithreading and more than 4 cores, generally core efficientcy isn't linear. In other words, going from 4x cores to 8x cores rarely means a 2x boost in speed, even if the cores were clocked the same and equally efficient. This is because it is very tough to design software in a manner which all tasks can be split equally between X cores.

The exception here is of course modern offline renderers/bakers, like Xnormal, Modo, and I assume max/vray/etc. So if you do a lot of that work, more cores is better, provided each core is of comparable performance (which isn't anything close to the case with the 8350).

So, the 8350 has one thing going for it, its cheap. For a budget build, its a great choice, for a workstation meant to last a good long while and a budget that easily allows for something better, not so much.

Edit: Derp, the 8350 isn't even an 8-core cpu, even though its advertised as such. Its a 4 core cpu with 2 logical cores per physical, same as the 4790. So performance is more easily compared, its simply slower than the 4790, but at about half the cost, so the AMD is a better value. Still, for a workstation, I would go for the best price/performance high-end Intel cpu you can find, which is the 4790 these days (when you consider ram/mobo as part of the cost).

The 9590 puts up more of a fight, its nearly as fast as the 4790 but still about $130 cheaper.

A Xeon E3-1241 v3 at $275 isn't a bad choice either if you want to stick with Intel but save a little money over the 4790. Biggest difference is that the Xeon doesn't have on-board GPU, which you don't need anyway.

ZacD

Never compare clock speed between processors not in the same series, you can get a Pentium 4 to 4 GHz, but it still won't compare to modern processor. It even applies to newer proccessors from the same manufacture, the only way to really compare performance is to compare benchmarks.

The i7 4790 has about 50% better single threaded performance, and 20-25% faster for multithreaded tasks, plus it has a much lower TDP, you'll be paying less in electricity over the life of the product, might only be $50+, but that still narrows the price gap.

There's still a ton of tasks that aren't multithreaded, a 50% improvement is a pretty big jump.

Justin Meisse

I have to throw my hat in for MiniITX cuz they're sooooooo cute!
http://pcpartpicker.com/part/gigabyte-motherboard-gah97nwifi

EarthQuake

ZacD wrote: »

Never compare clock speed between processors not in the same series, you can get a Pentium 4 to 4 GHz, but it still won't compare to modern processor.

I didn't, maybe you're refering to someone else?

me wrote:

even if the cores were clocked the same and equally efficient

ZacD

Yeah I was agreeing with you, referring to dfacto's post.

@Justin Meisse ITX builds are awesome, they are at the point if you just need a few drives and a single GPU, you don't have to make any real sacrifices to have an ITX build.

EarthQuake

Justin Meisse wrote: »

I have to throw my hat in for MiniITX cuz they're sooooooo cute!
http://pcpartpicker.com/part/gigabyte-motherboard-gah97nwifi

Mini-itx actually makes a lot of sense these days, provided you can fit your GPU into a mini-itx case. Really, how many of us need more than one pci-x slot for the gpu?

Maybe a few have a wireless card or capture card or something, then a micro-atx makes more sense. Very little reason for a full-size ATX board short of going SLI, even then you can get micro-atx boards that support sli.

I do not miss the days of 8 pci ports and needing a card for ethernet, sound, etc.

EarthQuake

ZacD wrote: »

Yeah I was agreeing with you, referring to dfacto's post.

Ah ok sweet, yeah I thought we were saying basically the same thing. HIGHFIVE!

ZacD

There's also plenty of ITX motherboards with various options for wireless/bluetooth, there's even ones with a dedicated audio daughter board and m.2 storage.

EarthQuake

Yeah msata is the shit. My HTPC, based on tiny intel NUC uses an msata ssd for os.

Justin Meisse

ZacD wrote: »

Yeah I was agreeing with you, referring to dfacto's post.

@Justin Meisse ITX builds are awesome, they are at the point if you just need a few drives and a single GPU, you don't have to make any real sacrifices to have an ITX build.

Check this out, pack six 2.5" drives into the space of one 5.25" slot.
Icy Dock

they also have versions that can fit 2 hard drives and a slimline optical drive.

ZacD

Oh, I know there's options, often times with ITX you only got 4 sata slots and 2 ram slots, those are the main 2 limiting factors on most boards.

Dataday

ZacD wrote: »

@Justin Meisse ITX builds are awesome, they are at the point if you just need a few drives and a single GPU, you don't have to make any real sacrifices to have an ITX build.

ZacD wrote: »

Oh, I know there's options, often times with ITX you only got 4 sata slots and 2 ram slots, those are the main 2 limiting factors on most boards.

I'd consider 2 RAM slots a fairly significant sacrifice. Additionally, the cases for m-itx generally have poor air flow and no room for proper cooling systems. Once those things can get addressed it shouldnt be so bad. Smaller is better this day and age.

Would really love for some kind of modular or dual sided config for itx, give more with less space.

Justin Meisse

Dataday wrote: »

I'd consider 2 RAM slots a fairly significant sacrifice. Additionally, the cases for m-itx generally have poor air flow and no room for proper cooling systems. Once those things can get addressed it shouldnt be so bad. Smaller is better this day and age.

Would really love for some kind of modular or dual sided config for itx, give more with less space.

Cooling isn't much of an issue, I have a system built inside of a Cooler Master Elite 130, stock cpu cooler and noctua fan in front, runs like a charm. People have done water cooled setups inside that case as well.

Tomseas

Thanks everyone for your input.
I already have a second monitor 1080p that I use with my laptop atm. I'll look into on of the korean ones.

A few questions. Zac looking at your build, you didn't include a cooler, is that intended?
I added a sound card too (or is this not needed?), on the low end. I swapped the 256 SSD with 500gb one. With the monitor I'm looking at 1600 so I'll prob go with that (as it's probably going to increase with shipping a fair bit)

Is this an example of those Korean monitors you speak of?:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Perfect-Pixel-QNIX-QX2710-LED-Evolution-2-27-2560x1440-PLS-Monitor-Glossy/140934439651?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3Dc45d7bd8eb914ed18db730a314eb5734%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D221233250459&rt=nc

Justin Meisse

In my opinion, sound cards aren't necessary unless you plan on doing some serious recording work.

ZacD

Don't get a sound card, motherboard audio has gotten better and became a competitive feature on motherboards. If you do want to be an audiophile, an external DAC is a better option.

I forgot about the cooler, I'd get the Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO, $30

beefaroni

It seems like these dudes are pointing you in the right direction but I just figured I'd toss out some last stuff.

If you do go MATX and want to get a smaller case, make sure it supports the Hyper 212 EVO. With ATX the height is usually not an issue. You may have to go with an AIO liquid cooler in a smaller setup, but then again, I'm not sure how small you will go, or if you will go MATX at all.

Fractal design makes a pretty neat MATX case: http://www.fractal-design.com/home/product/cases/node-series/node-804